Toni Kroos | Madridista

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Fortitude said:
Roy's one of the best midfielders of his type of all-time. Not sure the same can be said of Vidal, yet.

He's very probably the best of his type in the world, but this isn't an era with any competition for him to take that title away, which is the stickler.

Just surprised to see Vidal being mentioned as someone like Keane's equal, really.
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akash02 said:
?

Keane was easily the best in the world at his peak. Vidal scores more goals but then again he has more freedom to go bombing forward than Keane did.
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See this is stuff you'd only read on a united forum, understandably. Keano was obviously a world class player, and I loved him as a player, but he was not one of the best midfielders ever. At his peak he also had to compete with several other world class midfielders, including redondo who was just a better player then keane, so no he wasn't ever the best midfielder in the world either.

And okay looking back it was a bit hasty to claim that Vidal is better, but I'd say he's at a similar level to keane. As always people will only remember all of Keanes good qualities and amplify those, shutting out the bad parts. Happens with all retired players.
 
bosnian_red said:
See this is stuff you'd only read on a united forum, understandably. Keano was obviously a world class player, but he was not on of the best midfielders ever. At his peak he also had to compete with several other world class midfielders, including redondo who was just a better player then keane, so no he wasn't ever the best midfielder in the world either.
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It's absolutely not something you'd only hear here, believe me.

Redondo is another all-time great, so that's no slight on Keane. Roy was active in the last golden era for proper CM's, so it's no surprise others could be named with him and that's exactly what works again Vidal - he's like a displaced footballer in this age of specialisation and there are very few of the type to even compare him against, whereas in Keane's day, you could pick several top CM's at any given time.
 
Fortitude said:
It's absolutely not something you'd only hear here, believe me.

Redondo is another all-time great, so that's no slight on Keane. Roy was active in the last golden era for proper CM's, so it's no surprise others could be named with him and that's exactly what works again Vidal - he's like a displaced footballer in this age of specialisation and there are very few of the type to even compare him against, whereas in Keane's day, you could pick several top CM's at any given time.
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True. I just think Vidal would be able to fit in alongside those players and wouldn't be out of place. Right now most people just rate him by reputation as most on here I'm sure don't watch much of him. He's a brilliant all round player though. Maybe not a better player but I'd say he's up there when it comes to footballing qualities. What you could say keane has over him and what set him apart from the others was his mentality, drive to win, and the way he inspired all the others. I was talking more in a footballing sense though that there isn't much between them.
 
bosnian_red said:
True. I just think Vidal would be able to fit in alongside those players and wouldn't be out of place. Right now most people just rate him by reputation as most on here I'm sure don't watch much of him. He's a brilliant all round player though. Maybe not a better player but I'd say he's up there when it comes to footballing qualities. What you could say keane has over him and what set him apart from the others was his mentality, drive to win, and the way he inspired all the others. I was talking more in a footballing sense though that there isn't much between them.
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To be totally honest whenever I've watched Juventus, I'm sorry to say that Pogba looks the most impressive out of the two. Vidal does take a top penalty though.
 
Vidal is rightly lauded as the best of his type currently active, but Keane's accolades, even without United (his exploits with qualifying Ireland for the '02 WC are legendary) and the players he was earning his stripes against will always set him apart

For the record, I think offensively Vidal is a better player than Keane was, but defensively Keane was equally equidistant in his superiority over Vidal. They would have been a frightening tandem.
 
Keano was a one-off for club & Country. Dont go down that route of comparing like for like players around now. Keano was much more than a world-class footballer - he was the embodiment of Fergie on the pitch & he was the manager on the pitch for Ireland. No player will ever come close to being like Keano.

I wouldnt swap all those years of Keano in CM for any other player in history. Keano & Scholes - tears of joy for all the years they gave us!
 
Red Shorts said:
I have this very curious feeling that this signing is going to happen, it just makes sense to me.
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I have a feeling we're going to miss out on him just because we aren't in Europe this season, otherwise he'd choose us. Think there is something in the reports that Juventus will let him go too if the right offer came in.
 
bosnian_red said:
I have a feeling we're going to miss out on him just because we aren't in Europe this season, otherwise he'd choose us. Think there is something in the reports that Juventus will let him go too if the right offer came in.
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I was talking about Kroos.... Haha. The Vidal conversation should be in the Vidal thread, don't know why it has populated here
 
Red Dreams said:
Owen Hargreaves urges Toni Kroos to stay at Bayern Munich

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/footbal...ves-urges-kroos-to-stay-at-bayern_155529.html

Hargreaves is not bitter.
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No. He is not. Not as much as I know. When he was a pundit in German Sky with the Bayern-Manchester United match he was very nice to United... But you have to know that he is still very close to some of the Bayern team so he even has more insider information even about Kroos' motivations. The last time he was in Munich he was on the road and on the golf pitch with Schweinsteiger, Müller and probably Pizza and Lahm. (about the first two I know it but I would be surprised if the other two would not have been part of it)

But he makes sense. Especially about having to be defensive in a 2-man-midfield - he is no 10 for van Gaal.

Kroos would be a Manchester United transfer - not one of van Gaal. And with van Gaal coming we really doubt that he still would opt for Manchester United. And I do not really think he is a van Gaal wish - he does not mind to have him if United is already on him - but I think he would not have put him onto an own list. (and that is what the Guardian told somehow, too)
 
If serious criteria shall be fulfilled like a lucrative contract and offer worthy of Bayern's attention then we can think about having Toni Kroos in our formation.

However it will take maximum effort from Woodward but it's time to do something in that direction and finally start acting like a real Manchester United chairman.

Ace up the sleeve is Van Gaal and his European connections plus recognizable authority, domestic and foreign. If Woody and LVG will find common language in their cooperation, the club will be able to scoop much more players of Kroos' abilities.

In many ways it's more up to United to gain attention of that kind of players. The opportunities to build a great side are there but as a club we need to be simply active.
 
Red Hand Devil said:
Dreamy indeed man, but whats plan B if those two are injured, suspended, have a serious drop in form or that we have to make tactical substitutions during games?

Kroos & Vidal would just be mind-blowing, but we need a complete overhaul in CM. We only have Carrick & Fletch - Cleverley doesnt count, so thats our plan B.

We need a beast in CM like Carvalho to give us more options (for a defensive capacity, but the lad can play aswell) & i'd love us to sign "The Stroot" also. How sweet would our CM squad look then:

Kroos, Vidal, Strootman, Carvalho, Carrick & Fletch (if the latter two get back in the United groove)...

Folk who say "that'll never happen" - but why the hell not though? We've money to burn, so feckin spend it & we'll not have to worry about CM for atleast the next 5 years or more!
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Well I'm fine with one step at a time tho :)

Kroos, Vidal, Strootman, Carvalho.

I'd love that to happen but let's be reasonalble
that right there is at least 120-130m on paper.

We still need a LB and probably a winger if Nani/Young etc leave.

Kroos and Vidal will be really great for this summer. We will still have Carrick(at least a season or two), Fletcher and Jones as a backup.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Well I'm fine with one step at a time tho :)

Kroos, Vidal, Strootman, Carvalho.

I'd love that to happen but let's be reasonalble
that right there is at least 120-130m on paper.

We still need a LB and probably a winger if Nani/Young etc leave.

Kroos and Vidal will be really great for this summer. We will still have Carrick(at least a season or two), Fletcher and Jones as a backup.
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How many areas are you gonna cover in the first step though - 2 CM's :drool:, an LB & a winger?

We have the vibe right now - new world-class manager coming in etc. If we're shit like last season - that vibe is gone. Spend now if the opportunity of world-class players coming to us is there. This is a fantastic opportunity to get our squad sorted. Another year of mediocrity & we're on a slippery slope. We're not even servicing the real debt the Glazers brought upon us - we're payin the interest & something like £10m off the original loan..
 
Blackwidow said:
No. He is not. Not as much as I know. When he was a pundit in German Sky with the Bayern-Manchester United match he was very nice to United... But you have to know that he is still very close to some of the Bayern team so he even has more insider information even about Kroos' motivations. The last time he was in Munich he was on the road and on the golf pitch with Schweinsteiger, Müller and probably Pizza and Lahm. (about the first two I know it but I would be surprised if the other two would not have been part of it)

But he makes sense. Especially about having to be defensive in a 2-man-midfield - he is no 10 for van Gaal.

Kroos would be a Manchester United transfer - not one of van Gaal. And with van Gaal coming we really doubt that he still would opt for Manchester United. And I do not really think he is a van Gaal wish - he does not mind to have him if United is already on him - but I think he would not have put him onto an own list. (and that is what the Guardian told somehow, too)
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So from what I gather Van Gaal doesn't see him as a proper midfielder (and so wouldn't go for him)? Is this based on his time at Bayern, keeping in mind he hasn't worked with him for over 3 years?
 
Are we not in danger of better teams than us ruining this if he does leave Bayern? Barca (Xavi replacement?), Chelsea, City?
 
Dominos said:
Are we not in danger of better teams than us ruining this if he does leave Bayern? Barca (Xavi replacement?), Chelsea, City?
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Doubt Mourinho would be interested in him, he would not fit Chelsea's system.

City have plenty of midfielders, they're better off spending elsewhere.

Don't see Barcelona moving for him either.
 
Red Shorts said:
It would be an utter bitch if one of them does pip us to his signature, we've been literally the only name linked to him since january
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Mostly, surely, because it seems so unlikely that he'd actually leave, despite the current contract standoff. They link us to every midfielder for obvious reasons, but they won't link the likes of Barca and Madrid, whose midfields are already good, to a player who's very unlikely to become available.
 
Blackwidow said:
No. He is not. Not as much as I know.
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He is, though. I agree that's not why he's encouraging Kroos to say at Bayern - he's doing that because it's the best move for the player. But he is bitter about United. He's done a number of interviews where he basically tries to blame us for him being a total crock, and he's constantly getting little jabs in wherever he can while commentating for BT Sport.
 
Red Hand Devil said:
Kroos & Vidal would just be mind-blowing, but we need a complete overhaul in CM. We only have Carrick & Fletch - Cleverley doesnt count, so thats our plan B.
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Kroos and Vidal would absolutely represent a complete overhaul. Carrick and Fletcher are plenty good enough to be back-up at CM, especially once they're playing under a competent manager again. (Fletcher's actually been good in about 90% of his matches this season. Carrick's poor form can really only be blamed on Moyes, since he's never once been so bad under Ferguson, and just last season he was brilliant.)

You're talking about buying two of the top four or five central midfielders in the world. If you don't consider that an overhaul, then you've left real football behind and you're in Football Manager world.

I'm not sure where talk about Vidal has come from though. No reason whatsoever to believe that he's available at the moment.
 
Dominos said:
So from what I gather Van Gaal doesn't see him as a proper midfielder (and so wouldn't go for him)? Is this based on his time at Bayern, keeping in mind he hasn't worked with him for over 3 years?
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Four years ago Kroos wanted to be a no. 10. But - because of his lack of speed and running van Gaal did not see him there. He even played Schweinsteiger there when he needed Müller to take over the right wing when Robben was injured. He wanted to remodel him into a defensive midfielder - but that Kroos very reluctant to get. He played him but for sure not in a role Kroos would have liked - van Gaal had other projects he prefered. Kroos was not one of them (but Kroos was of Heynckes before and after). I have told that before - if you want to play him in a midfield two you should play a sweeper behind him. He is a very good ball distributor - one of the best in the world. Van Gaal for sure would work with him - he is too good. But I somehow have the feeling that neither van Gaal is the biggest Kroos' fan nor Kroos really loves van Gaal too much.
 
Brightonian said:
Kroos and Vidal would absolutely represent a complete overhaul. Carrick and Fletcher are plenty good enough to be back-up at CM, especially once they're playing under a competent manager again. (Fletcher's actually been good in about 90% of his matches this season. Carrick's poor form can really only be blamed on Moyes, since he's never once been so bad under Ferguson, and just last season he was brilliant.)

You're talking about buying two of the top four or five central midfielders in the world. If you don't consider that an overhaul, then you've left real football behind and you're in Football Manager world.

I'm not sure where talk about Vidal has come from though. No reason whatsoever to believe that he's available at the moment.
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Complete overhaul my arse...

Plan A = Sweet. A dream combo!

Plan B = "Absolute" gamble, based on illness & form!

Ideal Plan A against the best = Carvalho in front of the back 4, with Kroos hanging in CM & Vidal goin box-box..

Hope you're enjoyin you're unbanning from the "Tweets only" thread by the way!
 
Red Shorts said:
What are you on about? Fergie was clearly talking to Conte during the Europa league final specifically for the sale of Vidal..........
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:lol: Nice one man...

Although, and no offence RS, but how was it "clearly"? I've convinced myself goin by what i've read too.

The only info you & i have, is the same as everyone else - unless you're a lip-reader & a brilliant one, from staring at a photo to be honest man..
 
Not a massive Kroos fan really, he seems quite one paced, even his passing doesn't look crisp to me.
 
Red Hand Devil said:
Complete overhaul my arse...
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I'm sorry, but in real life football you simply don't get more of an overhaul of a position than replacing both current first-choice players with two of the top four in the world. Even the likes of City have never gone further than that in a single summer.

Red Hand Devil said:
Hope you're enjoyin you're unbanning from the "Tweets only" thread by the way!
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I actually haven't really gone into the thread since I came back from a recent break from the Caf. I never really grasped quite why I got banned in the first place - it seemed like everyone was discussing the tweets, and one or two were arbitrarily picked out for banning while the modmins tried to work out what the feck to do with the thread, with no warnings issued. (I must be the first person ever to think their thread-ban wasn't justified too, right?)

But tbh I'm not really a twitter person, I was only in there last summer because having avoided involvement in almost every caf transfer saga (I used to even avoid reading them back when I was an unregistered lurker, the 'Ronaldinho saga' years if you will), I got sucked into the Thiago debacle and was jonesing for updates like they were heroin.
 
Ramshock said:
You are on form tonight @Red Hand Devil :lol:
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Talkin through my arse as usual big son & tryin to get away with it - like all good Nordies do :D

Big game tomorrow eh Rams - how you feelin about that man?

Not feeling overly confident - i never do when it comes to Tyrone. Never know what team is gonna turn up. I'm sure you're the same to be honest. Should be a good game though. Feckin Mushroom Boys Monaghan in the next round proper aswell, so we're both gonna have to do it the hard way this year...

"Ulster - bloody hell.."
 
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