He is a playmaker, someone we dont currently have. You cant exactly call Carrick a playmaker because his primary task is to be a defensive mid and help out defenders. Kroos is capable of pulling the strings from central midfield like Scholes did albeit he isnt as good as Scholes. He is world class in my opinion and has great vision. His ball control is very good and he has one hell of a right foot. He is my absolute muppet signing for our midfield. This is a good video of him here:
Toni Kroos | Madridista
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People don't honestly believe Young and Fellaini are on 120k a week? Amazing how quickly these myths circulate and everyone takes them as gospel.
If you pay a 24 year old guy like Kroos 200k+ p.w. every other top player that you buy wants the same. I agree with @united_99 even so I blame the board and not Moyes. Its one thing to overpay Rooney, the long term star player and "face of the club", but its a completely different thing to overpay every new player, that you are going to buy. In 2-3 years you´ll end up like City, who have to pay £200m+ each year for their players. Once you gone down this road its hard to turn around. I dont know if thats really sustainable or smart.
United always tried to to keep the balance between spending, when its really worth it, but also making smart decisions, that dont cost ridiculous amounts of money.
If Kroos would be the one player who single-handedly lifts you to challenge the title next year, I´d see reason behind such a deal, but the truth is, that you need about 3-7 players to do so. All these players are going to ask for serious money, if you start paying it to some players.
If you spend that big on Kroos, it shows the lack of confidence to find smart answers. That would really worry me as a Fan.
United always tried to to keep the balance between spending, when its really worth it, but also making smart decisions, that dont cost ridiculous amounts of money.
If Kroos would be the one player who single-handedly lifts you to challenge the title next year, I´d see reason behind such a deal, but the truth is, that you need about 3-7 players to do so. All these players are going to ask for serious money, if you start paying it to some players.
If you spend that big on Kroos, it shows the lack of confidence to find smart answers. That would really worry me as a Fan.
He's only permanently become a deep lying midfielder in the last year or so but he looks absolutely at home there and is one of the best playmakers in world football. He's the next big thing in that position IMO, taking the mantle from the likes of Pirlo and Xavi who are winding down.
They're not myths but very probable estimates. Fellaini was a £27m signing and forewent a £4m 'loyalty' bonus, which I'm sure his agent would have recouped from Man Utd. Young ran his contract down to go for a 'cut-price' £18m, he will have worked some of the notional saving into his wage.
This. Of course you could blame the board, but we are in that mess because of Moyes, but well, even then you could blame the board as they hired him, but then it was SAF's decision, but even for that we can blame the board because they let him decide and so on
Anyway, that's the thing, if we wanted to go that route (and that's not even City/Chelsea route, even they haven't offered new signings that much yet), then why not with Mourinho? We should have then given him that ridiculous amount of money and watched him win treble after treble for us
whereas now we will probably spend big and then win the 4th place trophy next season This. That's the risk of buying a PL mid table club's best player. The likes of Young, Fellaini, Milner, etc. are on relative high wages at those mid table clubs anyway, of course once they move "up" (in Fellaini's case now "down" before someone else jumps in) they will demand at least 30-50 k more.
Taking that into account, it still isn't anywhere near a 'very probable estimate' - it's a massive jump from what they would have earned at their previous clubs. I think those that run the club at the exec level are savvy enough to not spunk so much of their sacred, hard earned sponsorship money on funding such needlessly high wage increases.
Would someone like Carvalho fit into the requirements of a good midfielder that is realistic to get?
Firstly, I dont see how a player of his quality, and the prospect of others of similar quality joining can be anything but positive for the club and our prospects next season and into the future.
Likewise, you seem to want to turn this into another "Moyes doesnt know what he's doing" issue which is ludicrous This is a player Bayern (the best side in Europe) would love to keep, and a player a lot of other clubs would love to have - you seem to suggest its a waste of money - perhaps you know womething the rest of us don't.
To get the best players you need to pay big money. Every club would love to "have the best players but not at risky prices" - that's the most obvious statement I've ever sen on here. The simple fact is the best players, especially those established at top sides go for massive money and clubs have two choices - 1) buy the best players or 2) don't. It is no coincidence that the best players end up at the richest clubs who generally win the most trophies.
Your reference to Dortmund highlights the issue - one of Europe's best sides last year, who've lost one of their best players (shortly to be two) to their rivals for big money (Fee and wages for Goetze and big wages for Lewandowski). They are now miles behind Bayern and out of the CL at the same stage as us. Athletico are another example. How long before their star players and the manager are at Europe's elite?
Klopp (or whomever else) won't want to come here and have to work miracles, if he can go elsewhere and have the backing he feels he deserves.
At the end of the day, this club has to either get involved with the other top sides in trying to sign the best players, or accept we cant compete and try to sign players from the lower tier who can make the grade - and who would then be off to other top sides in a few years anyway. The latter represents a massive risk because repeated failre, and not having household names as players will only impact negaitively on the clubs finances - to what extent, who knows, but given the debt levels I wouldnt be confident it would neccessarily end well.
Is that not what Carvalho is supposed to be for?
What? If you mean the anchoring DM, sure. Otherwise, not a chance. Carvalho has nowhere near the passing range, technical ability or shooting that Kroos does.
I watch Kroos more often than most do and I talk frequently to Bayern Munich supporters, as I know a lot of them. Kroos is regarded MUCH higher in England than he is in Germany. He is a great player that adds to any squad in the world, but most Bayern Munich supporters don't think he is a star player or a player they need to build around. I don't suggest that he is a waste of money, far from it as I rate the player highly, but 260k and a 40m fee for a player that has one year left on his contract is simply insane. Do you believe SAF would've done that? No chance in hell. Maybe PSG or City a few years ago would've done that but surely not us.
What I want from Moyes, is that he doesn't spend all the money the Glazers/SAF saved and that the next manager has to be on a tight budget. Look at Liverpool. They spent so much money on average players under KKK and Comolli that it still hinders them in the transfer market and only excpetional bargains made them the force they are right now. If Kroos isn't available, try Koke, Rakitic, Strootman, Moutinho etc ...
Yeah you're right, Bayern Munich spent a fortune on their squad right now. Wait actually they didn't. Look at how much money Real Madrid spent in the last 5 years and how much they won. It's a joke tbh.
The Glazers aren't here to make us the best club in the world or anything, they're here to make money. Maybe we'll have a lot of money this summer but in the long haul we simply don't have the budget of City or Real Madrid.
SAF would have probably retained all our CMs and gave Giggs another contract because he can give some a fantastic 40 minute performance once in a while. He left his feelings to take over his judgement and that's why we're in this sad situation.
the bold part is the problem: Even I can do this kind of scouting. Just buy Kroos, Vidal, Ronaldo, Thiago Silva, Reus and Luke Shaw and all the issues are solved. Kroos is a known star and obviously most clubs in the world would be happy to have him, still he is only linked to United and only they are making this "crazy" offer. Are all the other topclubs, including bayern, stupid? Well, some of them are, but not all of them.
I also dont think that the biggest spenders necessarily win the most trophies. Real´s, Chelsea´s and City´s record is actually piss-poor, while United won a shitload of trophies in the last 5 years.
To me, Kroos looks like a Mata-esque signing. Great individual quality, that will somehow fit in the lineup, but its at least questionable if he is the guy you need for this kind of money.
There are more options than signing crap players for little money and splashing $$$ on stars. Its still possible to "find value in the market". Many clubs do it.
I just dont trust Moyes anymore to spend big money on players, when its not entirely clear, how he actually wants to utilize them in his system.
Just a point to those concerned about how much we may spend this year.
We are having to pay a premium for being obsessed with value over the last 6 or 7 years. We should have been after kroos 3 years ago when he was struggling to get schwiensteiger out of the first 11. Everyone then knew he was something special. We should have got thiago 2 years ago, and if not then definately last year. We should have got reus before he went back to dortmund, we should have got mata the year he went to chelsea. We shouldnt have let pogba go for peanuts.
These were all players that we knew about and could have got. .. or should have tried harder. We are paying for that now. It isn't so much a criticism of saf or the board, we made our bed, it was a risk and it didn't pay off. Sometimes these things don't work, sometimes they do I.e ronaldo. Nani could have been world class, valencia could have been (looked like he was). Kagawa was/is a good buy for his ability, jones may be a world beater...rafael will make us a hell of a profit of we ever sell, buttner...err no, forget that.
We are paying now for not investing well enough in our midfield in particular. There are now many oil rich clubs that also need strengthening, the market is not what it was.
Let the people in charge worry about the finances. If there's one thing a club owned by the glazers won't do is spend more than it makes
We are having to pay a premium for being obsessed with value over the last 6 or 7 years. We should have been after kroos 3 years ago when he was struggling to get schwiensteiger out of the first 11. Everyone then knew he was something special. We should have got thiago 2 years ago, and if not then definately last year. We should have got reus before he went back to dortmund, we should have got mata the year he went to chelsea. We shouldnt have let pogba go for peanuts.
These were all players that we knew about and could have got. .. or should have tried harder. We are paying for that now. It isn't so much a criticism of saf or the board, we made our bed, it was a risk and it didn't pay off. Sometimes these things don't work, sometimes they do I.e ronaldo. Nani could have been world class, valencia could have been (looked like he was). Kagawa was/is a good buy for his ability, jones may be a world beater...rafael will make us a hell of a profit of we ever sell, buttner...err no, forget that.
We are paying now for not investing well enough in our midfield in particular. There are now many oil rich clubs that also need strengthening, the market is not what it was.
Let the people in charge worry about the finances. If there's one thing a club owned by the glazers won't do is spend more than it makes
The club has been getting by on trying to sign "value" player for years. Other than RVP pkayers signed for decent money have largely been young - i.e. long term value and/or big sell on value. As it is, how many of those "value" signings have worked out over the 6 or 7 years? I'd rather see big money spend on guaranteed quality.
The fact is, you by an Reus or Kroos you get a established top player. You buy a Nani or Anderson you might get a top player - if things work out. If not you get three of four years trying to make it work and sell for a reduced fee after paying decent money in wages, probably not that much better off than you would have been taking the plunge in the first place.
People on here are just being contrary. How any fan can be upset that his club intends to buy real quality additions is utterly beyond me. The critism of the manager her is just as bizzare. He's criticised at every turn - seemingly now for wanting talented players that any club would be happy to have.
The club needs an injection of quality - and nobody is suggesting that the club will only go after megastar players now or in the future. I'm sure young talents will be scouted as ever.
There is a suggestion that Moyes is a disaster and we'll never recover if he's given time in charge - yet you want to spend on young kids who might come good in three or four years? You cant have it both ways.
why was the brill thread title changed?
I'm hacked about that too. I always look out for Transfersprecken, and now it has vanished!
You guys can have him at 260k / week. I would congratulate Kroos and his agent wholeheartedly to such a deal. He's of course not worth that kind of money, but that doesn't need to concern the player who will rank among the ten best paid football players of all time with such a deal.
Bayern München cannot offer him more than € 10m without completely destroying the wage structure of the club. I simply wonder what will happen at United once two star players earn more than € 30m alone. That's going to have a massive effect on future transfers and contract extensions.
Well, at least United is financially healthy enough to pay for it without oligarch / sheikh money.
Bayern München cannot offer him more than € 10m without completely destroying the wage structure of the club. I simply wonder what will happen at United once two star players earn more than € 30m alone. That's going to have a massive effect on future transfers and contract extensions.
Well, at least United is financially healthy enough to pay for it without oligarch / sheikh money.
Look at it this way, he will have abundant money to spend because he has somehow convinced everyone that we are in a dire situation and need significant investment just to get into the top 4. If he's not going to spend 40 mil on Kroos, he will spend it on another donkey like Fellaini but with players like Kroos, Shaw and Mata we atleast have assets for our money that can recoup the value or provide good service to the next manager if/when Moyes inevitably gets the sack.
If he's spending money on Carroll, Downing, Fellaini, Adam like talent, then yes we will have bigger issues to contend with and be strapped when the Glazers tighten the purse strings.
I cant see us spending 40m on him to be honest. If we agree a contract with him then it would a buyer's market rather then a sellers one.
I see no problem in overpaying for quality players because even though you are overpaying, you are still getting quality and the team's performances on the pitch will reflect that. Look at Real, they massively overpaid for Bale, but at least he is an asset to their team and actually contributes something positive in most games. It's overpaying for the average dross that we have done with the likes of Fellaini and Young that I have a problem with. You overpay and carry the additional risk that the said player may not be able to step up his performances to the level that United require.
Agreed.
What do you think they're on? One was a huge money signing and another was an England international in his mid twenties.
I just can't see Bayern not giving him what he wants. He's played 40+ games this season for Bayern in a team full of stars and he's most likely going to win the Champions league this season and is surrounded by one of the most talented squads ever to appear in football. Why would he join us at this point in time? If he wasn't playing for Bayern than he would most likely be tempted but he's playing for the best team in Europe!
*Assuming the story is true*
We have to offer a stupid amount to him because we're trying to prize him away from Bayern fecking Munich. If we want the best of the best, then we have to throw some money at these players. It's sad, but with no CL the spectrum of players we can attract will only be ones who are motivated by money or those who want to be part of "the new United" - and I'm sure there is less players in that latter group.
We have to offer a stupid amount to him because we're trying to prize him away from Bayern fecking Munich. If we want the best of the best, then we have to throw some money at these players. It's sad, but with no CL the spectrum of players we can attract will only be ones who are motivated by money or those who want to be part of "the new United" - and I'm sure there is less players in that latter group.
There can only be one reason.
The new TV deal will make it a buyers' market pretty soon anyways, the premier league revenue has steadily been eclipsing other leagues and we will soon have situations where mid table premier league clubs will be able to buy and offer higher wages to players from other top 4 clubs in Europe.
If we agree to a contract and try to lowball Bayern, they'l tell us to feck off and let him run the contract down. Not talking about 40mil here but I dont see any club simply agreeing a contract with Kroos and then trying to lowball Bayern.
Its ONLY about Money. Both Kroos and Bayern have said that openly.
Clearly you do think he's a waste of money then. I think most would disagree.
And there is nothing to suggest that spending big money on players this summer will leave the cupboards bare in the future. United, despite being saddled with debt are hugely profitable as it stands and benefit from commercial deals the likes of Liverpool can only dream of - its nowhere near comparable.
The fact is, to keep making money the club needs to be succesful - if not the commercial partners move on and the whole thing comes down like a house of cards.
Spending large fees regularly is a necessary part of football to stay competitive at the top level. That is a fact. Even the most succesful sides with excellent youth systems spend big money on players. Bayern have spent £30 million plus on various players and have made Lewandowski a massive contract offer to get him.
What you want is a manager who can buy players for £15 million and turn them into £50 million players - as does every club in the world. The reality is it rarely happens.
Bayern are paying reasonable wages. There's a big difference between splashing the cash on transfer fees and smashing a wage structure to pieces.
When did I ever say that he would be a waste of money? Or when did I indicate that I didn't rate the player. What I said that he is a very good player that would add alot to our game but he isn't worth THAT kind of money. Something most Bayern Munich fans would agree on but I'm sure you know much more about Kroos than many Bayern Munich season ticket holders.
Yes, the club needs to be succesful but Kroos should be simply an option to us fixing a glaring problem, which is indeed a necessity that needs to be fixed.
Bayern spent 30m plus on 2 players in their entire history. Martinez, who had to take a wage cut in order for Bayern to pay his transfer buy out clause and Götze, who is still seen as a bargain. Yes, they made Lewandowski a good offer, but nothing that is extraordinary. Lewandowski could've earned more at Madrid.
What I want is a manager that has a plan for this team and has a number of players that could help to achieve that. Not a transfer muppet that simply goes for the best in every position and throws silly money at them.
Yes Manchester United is generating a lot of money, but sadly most of it will go to the Glazers and that's something we have to deal with. We have a budget and I don't want Moyes to overpay on every damn transfer target we have and the next manager can't afford his targets.
Weren't people saying a few days ago that Jackson talks a load of shite? Now that he's reported something good his word is gospel again...
Maybe it's not the exact same people from the other day.
He does. Nobody is taking anything as a gospel.
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