Toni Kroos | Madridista

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Sarni said:
We're not getting Koke though and Gundogan is a crock.
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Maybe we won't get Koke, he is still a more suited choice in my view. His release clause is 50 million euros, and that is the sort of budget I'd like to think we have put aside for the player who will come and do his job.

Gundogan's back is a concern of course.

I wouldn't mind a Carvalho/Song double-pivot personally. Great defensive protection to allow the others to play ball, with some mobility and ability to pass forward from Song.
 
Gaeilge said:
feck it, I don't care if it' all nonsense. For once, I will fantasize....

Carvalho Kross

Januzaj Mata Kagawa

Rooney

( Carrick, Fletcher, Cleverley, Valencia, Welbeck, RvP)
​
Good god!!!
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Kevin said:
Slowest team in the world.
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I have to agree with this. This team lacks speed on all the lines. Looks like a team that will be comfortable on the ball, that will have a good share of the possession but that will struggle to do something with it because they lack pacey players to play the ball to who'll run into the space these brilliant footballers will create. I mean Bayern have Ribery, Robben, Gotze and Thiago to provide the pace in their team. City have Aguero, Navas, Chelsea have Willian, Hazard, Shurlle, Real have Ronaldo, Bale and Di Maria, Barcelona got Messi, Neymar, Sanchez, Pedro etc. Those teams wouldn't work that well if they wouldn't have that pace in the team.

I don't know what is at United, but feels like we just can't get a good proper balance in team anymore. Either we just sign players with speed like but who lack the technical abilities like Young, Valencia and also Herandez. Seems like we are realising now we need more technical players who are comfortable on the ball, but we are ignoring pace completley. I mean we signed Mata for £37.5M as a playmaker, we signed Shinji for £17M for the exact same reason. We signed Carrick for £18M to be an all round midfielder, we signed Fellaini for £27.5M as the exact same role. Now we want to sign Carvalho because he would be a beast as a defensive midfielder and he could cost us £30M and we desperatly want Kroos because he is a playmaker that can play from a deeper position and he could cost us £40M. That is a £170M midfield...

£170M midfield, but it doesn't strike me as a really good because it lacks pace and its completley unbalanced.
 
united_99 said:
Koke is not leaving, unless they can't sell anyone else and get a HUGE offer from us or another club, which I doubt. They can easily sell Costa if both parties want it. Koke is a local lad, very settled in Madrid and he and Atletico are having the season of their lives. Plus he is only 22 so could easily stay there for a couple of years and leave then if the time is right. Or replace Xavi at Barca in 1-2 years, wouldn't be surprised at all. I would absolutely love him at United, he is one of my favourite players outside United but I can't see him here.
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But what if we get Simeone this summer :drool::drool::drool::drool::drool:
 
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Then maybe! We can dream, right? :drool: However I am not sure our owners even know who Simeone is :nervous:
 
Yes but right now we need a finished product like Kroos. Barkley has potential I agree but we need someone to spring passes from midfield and Kroos does it better than Barkley at the moment.
 
RDCR07 said:
Yes but right now we need a finished product like Kroos. Barkley has potential I agree but we need someone to spring passes from midfield and Kroos does it better than Barkley at the moment.
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We need a lot more than that in our midfield, and the question is, does Kroos offer a lot more than that?
 
Pexbo said:
:lol: he's a world class playmaker.
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I'm aware of that. Which means he is a great passer. Not that funny really, 'world class playmakers' are not typically known for their ability to close down off the ball, track runners, tackle, and carry the ball forward from midfield - which are all qualities we need in midfield in addition to a player who can pass the ball.
 
My worry lies with Carvalho. He strikes me as an expensive risk, can we afford to take another one of those?
 
2 Man Midfield said:
My worry lies with Carvalho. He strikes me as an expensive risk, can we afford to take another one of those?
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People are willing to take risks with Barkley and Shaw. Why not with Carvalho? Their average age is what around 20? You can never be certain with potential. You just have to take the risk and coach them the right way and hope they have the right attitude and the desire to become the best they can be.
 
RDCR07 said:
Wait so would have Barkley over Kroos? Over Toni fecking Kroos?
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yeah - in fairness I'd be happy with either but given the choice between them I'd take the guy born in England and lives not far away so no relocation risks with experience of the premier league who strikes me as actually being a fraction ahead of where a 20 year old kroos was plus seems a little more versatile - but as I say I'd be happy with either
 
2 Man Midfield said:
My worry lies with Carvalho. He strikes me as an expensive risk, can we afford to take another one of those?
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Isn't much of a risk when he's better then anything we have by a bit already, despite being only 20 years old I think. Also a physical beast, like properly and knows how to defend, not like fellaini who is big but slow and gets pushed off the ball easily and only fouls players. The only thing is the price, but I doubt we'll pay he full release clause anyways. Most Portuguese people on here have been saying they'd accept like £25m for him as they aren't the best financially so we should be fine.
 
Rozay said:
I'm aware of that. Which means he is a great passer. Not that funny really, 'world class playmakers' are not typically known for their ability to close down off the ball, track runners, tackle, and carry the ball forward from midfield - which are all qualities we need in midfield in addition to a player who can pass the ball.
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Is the key point.
 
sun_tzu said:
yeah - in fairness I'd be happy with either but given the choice between them I'd take the guy born in England and lives not far away so no relocation risks with experience of the premier league who strikes me as actually being a fraction ahead of where a 20 year old kroos was plus seems a little more versatile - but as I say I'd be happy with either
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Oh man.
 
bosnian_red said:
Isn't much of a risk when he's better then anything we have by a bit already, despite being only 20 years old I think. Also a physical beast, like properly and knows how to defend, not like fellaini who is big but slow and gets pushed off the ball easily and only fouls players. The only thing is the price, but I doubt we'll pay he full release clause anyways. Most Portuguese people on here have been saying they'd accept like £25m for him as they aren't the best financially so we should be fine.
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Big difference this time, that we need to overpay as other clubs want him too. If we sign him I'd be suprised for anything less than 30m. Surely many players want to come here, like Moyes said. But can we really compete with other top clubs, as we failed to do that even under SAF and being the best club in England? We'll have to play the money card this time.
 
Pexbo said:
Is the key point.
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I didn't mean it as we should get one player who can do everything, and then one who can just pass though. Ideally, we would get a positive passing player who can also contribute positively in other areas - namely without the ball.

Kroos is a top player, I'd just prefer a player who has a bit more of an all round game.
 
I can't believe there are people who don't want us to get Kroos, it's insane really. He offers so many things we currently lack - someone who can control the match and the tempo. Not only that, he can score from long range and has defence splitting passes, if we get a midfielder who offers power and good defending alongside Kroos then we're sorted.
 
Rozay said:
I didn't mean it as we should get one player who can do everything, and then one who can just pass though. Ideally, we would get a positive passing player who can also contribute positively in other areas - namely without the ball.

Kroos is a top player, I'd just prefer a player who has a bit more of an all round game.
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You're talking as if he's a player like Mata who contributes very little off the ball.

Let's make it very clear, he is a Centre Midfielder for a reason and he excels there. His off the ball work is absolutely fine and while it isn't his forte, do you really think Pep would give so much play time to someone who doesn't put in a shift off the ball? He's a centre midfielder of the highest quality.
 
PlayerOne said:
I can't believe there are people who don't want us to get Kroos, it's insane really. He offers so many things we currently lack - someone who can control the match and the tempo. Not only that, he can score from long range and has defence splitting passes, if we get a midfielder who offers power and good defending alongside Kroos then we're sorted.
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Well it isn't like we are saying we 'don't want to sign Kroos' and would rather sign nobody is it? People are suggesting other top class midfield players, only with a slightly different skill-set.

Mata, Kagawa and Kroos would be overkill in one team anyway I think. I think a more varied make up of qualities would be better for the team.
 
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Rozay said:
Well it isn't like we are saying we 'don't want to sign Kroos' and would rather sign nobody is it? People are suggesting other top class midfield players, only with a slightly different skill-set.

Mata, Kagawa and Kroos would be overkill in one team anyway I think. I think a more varied make up of qualities would be better for the team.
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exactly - thinking kroos is a fantastic player and would be an excellent signing is not antithetical to thinking that there may be other players who would potentially be as good for us if not better
 
Pexbo said:
You're talking as if he's a player like Mata who contributes very little off the ball.

Let's make it very clear, he is a Centre Midfielder for a reason and he excels there. His off the ball work is absolutely fine and while it isn't his forte, do you really think Pep would give so much play time to someone who doesn't put in a shift off the ball? He's a centre midfielder of the highest quality.
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But let's be perfectly clear on that, the system he plays as a CM is so different to ours. The Guardiola system is basically a joy for any CM that is great at passing and can hide their defensive weakness. Last year he played as a 10 for Heynckes, where he was IMO better. Kroos passing and vision is absolute top notch, no doubt about it. But it's a bit risky signing a player for THAT much money, when he hasn't proven on a regular basis that he is a world class 8. That's the big contrast to Gündogan, who could dominate at either position, in a position where he had a lot of responsibility going forward, but also to shield the defense.

I'd love him here, no doubt about that, but Moyes is already targeting a teenage LB, a potential world class DM for silly money. Would be nice to have one world class player where we can be pretty sure that he'll be worth the money. No question he'd improve us though.
 
Rozay said:
Well it isn't like we are saying we 'don't want to sign Kroos' and would rather sign nobody is it? People are suggesting other top class midfield players, only with a slightly different skill-set.

Mata, Kagawa and Kroos would be overkill in one team anyway I think. I think a more varied make up of qualities would be better for the team.
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Why do you think those three in a team would be overkill? It would make sense to me, it would mean that Moyes is moving towards a possession based football, isn't that what most fans on here want?
 
Lu Tze said:
From what I've seen of him he isn't a risk at all. Looks excellent with ridiculous potential.
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RDCR07 said:
People are willing to take risks with Barkley and Shaw. Why not with Carvalho? Their average age is what around 20? You can never be certain with potential. You just have to take the risk and coach them the right way and hope they have the right attitude and the desire to become the best they can be.
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Freak said:
Maybe that's why we've been scouting carvalho a million times.
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bosnian_red said:
Isn't much of a risk when he's better then anything we have by a bit already, despite being only 20 years old I think. Also a physical beast, like properly and knows how to defend, not like fellaini who is big but slow and gets pushed off the ball easily and only fouls players. The only thing is the price, but I doubt we'll pay he full release clause anyways. Most Portuguese people on here have been saying they'd accept like £25m for him as they aren't the best financially so we should be fine.
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Fair enough. Can't say i've seen much of him other than the odd video, maybe my assumptions were based on my own ignorance. Sounds like many think he could come in and do the business straight away.
 
He has more competition at Real than he will have if he comes here. So if he comes to United, then his wages would most likely be doubled and his playing time will be increased.

Real - Asier, Khedira, Alonso, Modric
Bayern - Schweni, Martinez, Thiago
 
2 Man Midfield said:
Fair enough. Can't say i've seen much of him other than the odd video, maybe my assumptions were based on my own ignorance. Sounds like many think he could come in and do the business straight away.
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Haven't seen much either but from everything I've heard and the bit I've seen he looks like a safe bet. He's won the player of the month 4 times this season as well, so obviously he's quite good.
 
Rozay said:
Mata, Kagawa and Kroos would be overkill in one team anyway I think. I think a more varied make up of qualities would be better for the team.
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Yeah, that'd be awful, let's definitely not hope to see that week in week out next season.
 
Pexbo said:
You're talking as if he's a player like Mata who contributes very little off the ball.

Let's make it very clear, he is a Centre Midfielder for a reason and he excels there. His off the ball work is absolutely fine and while it isn't his forte, do you really think Pep would give so much play time to someone who doesn't put in a shift off the ball? He's a centre midfielder of the highest quality.
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Well Pep rarely plays him in a 2 man midfield, the work-load is shared between 3. Normally, he would start with Bastian and Martinez behind him, or Lahm.
PlayerOne said:
Why do you think those three in a team would be overkill? It would make sense to me, it would mean that Moyes is moving towards a possession based football, isn't that what most fans on here want?
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I suppose so. I mean, Kroos is a fantastic player, no mistake. I think such a trio would be great when in possession of the ball, and if they develop a good enough understanding to have 70% possession in most games then fine. If not, the team's strength could just as easily become its weakness when not in possession.
 
Rozay said:
Mata, Kagawa and Kroos would be overkill in one team anyway I think. I think a more varied make up of qualities would be better for the team.
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I cant believe you just said that. I think you would be in the only person who wouldnt want to see Kroos, Mata and Kagawa in one team.
 
Colin129 said:
We gave him away to them in the end though. I always assumed that they must have got the Ruud & Carrick transfer fees the wrong way round.
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To be honest if we sign him and have him here on a five year contract, then I wouldnt care if he moves or not after that.
 
RDCR07 said:
I cant believe you just said that. I think you would be in the only person who wouldnt want to see Kroos, Mata and Kagawa in one team.
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Yep, I am Tony Pulis in disguise for preferring to see Vidal, Mata and Kagawa in one team, or Gundogan, Mata and Kagawa instead.
 
RDCR07 said:
I cant believe you just said that. I think you would be in the only person who wouldnt want to see Kroos, Mata and Kagawa in one team.
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Its not about not wanting to see them together. Its about balance. The only way I can see all 3 starting is if we have an absolute top defensive mid in the middle and a defensively sound winger on the right. Otherwise its too light defensively.
 
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