Anyone know where I can view individuals stats from games? Interested to know of Toni's numbers from last night !
Toni Kroos | Madridista
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Barkley with a lot of hard work maybe, but morrison? Nah. Has oodles of raw talent but technical ability is way off at the moment.
People use term 'technical ability' far too much. Yes, good on ball and a bit of skill is one thing but it also needs composure, strength, vision, intelligence. 3 of those are severely lacking in all english youngsters (in comparison to the best from the continent).
It is often weirdly confused with the ability to dribble past players rather easily or running with the ball.
You think morrison is lacking in technical ability?
You think morrison is lacking in technical ability?
I refuted your claim that Morrisson has "the technical ability to match the best talents from any country." Nothing else, nothing more. How you made your weird conclusion is funny to me.
You think morrison is lacking in technical ability?
This convo between you two made me chuckle. It's the epitome of how difficult it is to have proper debate on here.
Just because someone says x player is not as good as someone else, it must mean you think they're shit. And since they are obviously not sit, your argument must, therfore be wrong.
*insert laughing smiley to enhance point*
Too many caftards think they're psychics or something by reading between the lines and understanding one's true point behind everything he says. At times it really is as simple as reading what's written. I hate it when people interpret what one say to an extreme that wasn't even meant. The laughing smiley inclusion is true too.
Pretty good last night.
No Barkley would be technical from any point of view, his touch the way he dribbles, he is quite similar to Kroos actually just more dynamic.
Wilshere is as technical as any Spanish or German player, this is the guy who was withstanding Barcelona's pressing from the ages of 19. He definitely has the technique to play for a Barcelona or Bayern, its his application so far that has been missing, but at the age of 21 he has all the time in the world to find consistency like Ramsey has this season.
Exact same thing can be said for the likes of Sterling, Barkley, Morrison etc.
Talk about overreaction...
You used Wilshere as a good example and even more so because he showed he could be that kinda player in that Barca game but again I gotta say I'm surprised at Morrison being mentioned in the same lines of Barkley and Sterling this time. There are several levels separating them and him.
They're talented but they're not there yet and because they're so rare among in the English pool of players, they get praised too much in comparison to their real quality. Wilshere would find it tough to get playing time at either Bayern and Barca IMHO and we're talking about the best young English player right now.
Was immense yesterday.
Wishere is a very good player no doubt about that, great technique. But can't see him starting for Bayern or Barca. Same goes for Barkley.
Considering Sergi Roberto manages to get games for Barca i don't think Wilshere would have a problem with getting games at all.
Also compare Sterling to Deulofeu or any German winger his age, and he is just as good if not better.
Sergi Roberto has played 22 games for Barca this season, is he better than Barkley, let alone Wilshere?
I think Barkley can be more of a Vidal sort of midfielder in future.
I'm sure if Sergi Roberto was English Nd coming through at a top English team, he'd be a much lauded full international by now.
You're right considering Cleverley has however appearances.
But he is not as talented as Barkley or Wilshere for me.
I don't think many will have. The reason he is Bayern's best this season is due to their midfield being destroyed by injury.
Almost all of them has been from the substitute bench, which is exactly where Wilshere will be. Who can he replace from the starting line up?
But you forget that Wilshere is a more talented player than Roberto.
Wilshere would be on the bench, but his situation would be similar to Thiagos a couple seasons ago, he would start a lot of games as well.
Yeah but i said he wouldn't be starting games for Bayern or Barca. I think he would be somewhere between Thiago and Sergio in the pecking order. Offensively Thiago has more arsenal and dribbling skills than Wilshere even though he's playing deeper at Bayern.
Well he definitely has the technical ability to match German and Spanish midfielders the same age, that was the original argument.
Oh yeah he can definitely match them. I rate him highly. But he wouldn't be amongst their best.
I think he would be actually, unless you can name a host of Spanish and German midfielders 22 and under who are better than him.
I watch the Spanish u21 team extensively and i can't.
Wilshere's a good example of what i was saying earlier about the psycholigical issues we have in England, and i think it affects the foreign players that play here too sometimes.
Im sure we'd all agree that as young kids growing up playing football, there was always that sense that the continental players were something special. We get more excited about foreign players signing for us. There is a sense that england could never produce the skill and technical class that the continent provides. There is a foundation of a lack of confidence..at least confidence in the right way. Look at Ronaldo, when he came to utd he was exciting, but he was a real unfinished article. His final product was severley lacking, but he had all the potential. That potential is in young english players i think, but Ronaldo had it in his head that he was convinced he would be the best player in the world. He knew he could be and he worked his arse off to get there. You just dont see that ambition in young english players, a lot of it is from them but a lot of it is from us too...the idea that wilshere could be best midfielder in world? I dont feel so, maybe best in england but world? No....but why not?
What the last few nights have shown his just how much more comfortable the players from Bayern and Barca are on th eball...i appreciate its east to say that with the two best teams in the world, but i think its true with all the good teams on the continent, particularly spain and germany. You could see when Barca and Bayern had a counter attack, there was no panic. There was a structure and when they broke away, even under pressure, they knew who to pass to and where, they had such composure, their passes on the break were so accurate.
The amount of times i saw arse and city in the same scenario, genuinely good players like Wilshere broke with the ball and just passed into nowhere giving ball away, there was just this essence of panic, even with city and their foreign players, but ive felt for years it was more pronounced with players from England. They have the skill and power, but the composure is just so lacking
Im sure we'd all agree that as young kids growing up playing football, there was always that sense that the continental players were something special. We get more excited about foreign players signing for us. There is a sense that england could never produce the skill and technical class that the continent provides. There is a foundation of a lack of confidence..at least confidence in the right way. Look at Ronaldo, when he came to utd he was exciting, but he was a real unfinished article. His final product was severley lacking, but he had all the potential. That potential is in young english players i think, but Ronaldo had it in his head that he was convinced he would be the best player in the world. He knew he could be and he worked his arse off to get there. You just dont see that ambition in young english players, a lot of it is from them but a lot of it is from us too...the idea that wilshere could be best midfielder in world? I dont feel so, maybe best in england but world? No....but why not?
What the last few nights have shown his just how much more comfortable the players from Bayern and Barca are on th eball...i appreciate its east to say that with the two best teams in the world, but i think its true with all the good teams on the continent, particularly spain and germany. You could see when Barca and Bayern had a counter attack, there was no panic. There was a structure and when they broke away, even under pressure, they knew who to pass to and where, they had such composure, their passes on the break were so accurate.
The amount of times i saw arse and city in the same scenario, genuinely good players like Wilshere broke with the ball and just passed into nowhere giving ball away, there was just this essence of panic, even with city and their foreign players, but ive felt for years it was more pronounced with players from England. They have the skill and power, but the composure is just so lacking
Id put Gotze, Isco and Thiago above him. Koke is another that can certainly be argued although technically he's not as good he's got other qualities. But those three are probably the best.
They were playing with ten men, before that Wilshere looked like he was on his way to having a good game.
If there is something Wilshere is lacking its certainly not composure imo.
Generally yes, i agree when he's in the PL, but big big games like last night...less so.
Worth pointing out that Arsenal did a lot better against Bayern than City did against Barca who arent (IMO) quite as good as Bayern. Wilshere was a big part of that.
How good is he and to think Bayern actually hold the upper hand (imo) with contract negotiations. Both parties probably want him to stay but, I think Kroos will be the one that has more desire compared to Bayern who have so many top players and being really the only game in town can just grab the next "Kroos" that comes up at any of the other clubs.
Your last point is nonsense. There's thousands upon thousands of kids in this country that play football for all of the supposed right reasons. The real reason we are behind, albeit our current generation are technically quite comfortable, is the lack of contact time during school time. We're strict like that over here. The majority of foreign countries allow children a lot more time to train with football clubs; the children develop further as a result.
Our Jermain Defoe culture is certainly exaggerated and not at all representative of the many British players that desperately want to play for their favourite club. Sadly, after missing out on contact time during their teens, the cream of the crop end up stalling at the age of 18 because our joke of a youth league puts games on once every 3 weeks. The home nations don't really stand a fair chance until regulations are changed and a regular, competitive youth league is introduced to develop players when they need it most.
As for the argument developing now, I agree with Sniper. Sterling is no worse than any 19 year old winger around the European scene right now. Wilshere is technically fantastic and has been horrendously unlucky with injury. He missed a full season at the worst possible time.
Very positive comments from Pep, he will sign a new deal I'm sure of it. Once again United have been used as a bartering tool.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...anchester-united-transfers-toni-kroos-6729638
"We all want him to prolong [his stay], and he also wants that, I am very positive about it. The club, we all want that."
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...anchester-united-transfers-toni-kroos-6729638
"We all want him to prolong [his stay], and he also wants that, I am very positive about it. The club, we all want that."
There's no question that Pep wants him to stay. The problem seems to be his wages. He wants to be amongst the clubs highest earners. The club is willing to raise his salary but not that high. They'll probably manage to convince him to stay though.
I think in terms of ability, Kovacic has to come into that discussion too.
To be fair to Wilshere, he's only 22. Surely, it's too early to draw any conclusions about psychological issues, especially not just after a game in which his team was playing without their three biggest goal threats, their best player this season, and were facing one of the strongest club sides in recent times. They also had to contend with being down to 10 men for most of the game (may as well have been 9 tbh).
He's got a lot of responsibility at Arsenal for such a young player and is under a lot of pressure whenever he plays for England. It wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't able to cope with the pressure, but that would be more indicative of England's shortcomings and Arsenal's injury problems than anything else. He shouldn't be under so much pressure at such an early stage in his development tbh. Rooney was in a similar position at a younger age and, inevitably, couldn't live up to the ridiculous expectations people had for him, regardless of the fact that he developed into a top class player.
We were talking about Germans, English and Spanish players mate.
Martinez, Thiago, Schweini, Kroos. Bayern seem to have a glut of players and something has to give.
Yep. How old was he when he played against Barca in that game? 19 years old. People started hyping him up to be England's saviour. It's just a ridiculous amount of pressure on a young player who should still be in his developing years. He's still really young with his prime years still ahead of him. I thought he was one of the best players on the pitch yesterday in the first half.
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