I just hope we don't become a club who spends over the odds for players, because spending big doesn't always guarantee success.
Toni Kroos | Madridista
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I just hope we don't become a club who spends over the odds for players, because spending big doesn't always guarantee success.
If we don't get him then no surprise but what we should do is die trying, Bayern are no nonsense in transfers, if we pop up with 32.5m we might as well drag our dicks through broken glass, ask the club what it takes to release him and meet it, he's that good.
I agree completely but I think it's time to start paying for the quality we identify. £6m to Hazards agent seems a pretty insignificant fee now doesn't it? It's all well and good having policies based on morals but they don't earn you league positions. Fans and rival fans don't take you seriously as you sit on your high horse if the team is failing.
If we came knocking on their door with £45m+ and a contract that turns Kroos head, let's say £200k, they'd have some serious thinking to do. In a position they are stacked in, can they afford to set a precedent and give him a huge contract or would it benefit them to take a solid fee and set a precedent to other players who think they can set their own terms in contract talks. It could be that he really wants to stay anyway and would actually accept a lower contract if they did call his bluff and accepted a fee.
Either way we should take the transfer seriously. There will be riots and mass media/social network hysterics if we came in with a smart arse offer of £25m to "test their resolve". If rumours are to be believed, after last summer the club has already lost face with its small time conduct regarding a host of failed enquires and lean offers.
Ye true, but there's still gems out there who cost next to nothing. Gundogan, Vidal, Kroos, etc, all players who seem to be very popular around this forum, all went for less than 15M. I just think it's about finding the right balance and knowing when and when not to go all out for a player. Looking back at it, Hazard is definitely a player we should have probably went all out for. Even if that meant playing 6M to his agent, like you said.
Talk about an overreaction. Before yesterday no one would have him in their top 5 midfielders in the world, now he's suddenly there? He was brilliant and has obviously been very good for a while, but best in the world?
Damn! £45m+ for a player with one year left on his contract and wanting to leave? 
Fudge this post Gareth Bale transfer world.
Fudge this post Gareth Bale transfer world.Where did Kroos say he wants to leave Bayern?Damn! £45m+ for a player with one year left on his contract and wanting to leave?
Where did Kroos say he wants to leave Bayern?
I making the assumption that's the only way anyone is getting him. Him not keen on extending a contract and wanting out.
It's human nature to only be able to see what's infront of you to some extent. I wouldn't take it so seriously it's just people being hyperbolic.
As much as I would love to, can't get my inner muppet going on this one. Bayern would be mental to let him go and it's not as if they don't have the financial clout to put him on a deal commensurate with his talent. They're playing a chess game, but they'll mutually agree a deal soon enough.
The gits.
The gits.
Good lord. I was sat their on me couch like This lad is a gem, the Deutsch Scholes.
Then I realised there's almost 0 chance of us actually signing him.
This lad is a gem, the Deutsch Scholes. Then I realised there's almost 0 chance of us actually signing him.
He has been Bayern's best midfielder this season so I guess a lot of people had him on top 5. Yesterday was likely his best ever performance so a lot of people are going over the top, but still he is a great player and better than any current EPL midfielder.
Saying that, I still have a feeling that Thiago will eventually become even better than him.
No. I think are track record of signing players such as this from continental clubs(Hazard, Moura, etc) is not great, we can't guarantee CL football next year and also we don't have the pull of Fergie anymore.
We are a big European club with history and tradition but we don't pay City money and are unfortunately going through a period of uncertainty when it comes to the playing side of things.
At this particular time specific moment, we are not as appealing as we where in the recent past.
Don't worry, everything will go swimmingly.
If that means that we'll sign him then so be it. Better spending big on top players (regardless of how many years they have in contract) than spending big on mediocre EPL proven players who have many years in their contract.Damn! £45m+ for a player with one year left on his contract and wanting to leave?
There is no chance that we'll sign him though. Even if he doesn't extend his contract, the likes of Barca/Madrid/Chelsea will offer him as much money as us (if not more), better cities, better quality of football, better managers and more chance to win trophies.
Good post.
Not to mention the power of the United "brand". When it comes to negotiating individual sponsorships and endorsements playing for MUFC is a very big deal. Whatever salary a player is offered to sign for United can immediately be inflated by a decent agent. Rich and all as they are, the likes of PSG, Malaga and Monaca aren't at the races in this regard.
Depressing how many United fans seem so determined to ignore the status of the club they support. Luckily, the major corporations are still very much aware.
The obstacle won't be us or our (maybe) temporary situation. It will be him being German and currently playing for the best team in the world in his home country. My money is on him signing a contract extension.
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We just spent 37m on Mata as a transfer fee, 27m on Fellaini as a transfer fee and on the wages front if reports are to be believed about to hand Rooney a mega wage deal with RvP not on peanuts either. I think we'll pay if we really interested.
Oh yea sorry I just realised he doesn't play for Liverpool, my mistake
Both complement each other perfectly, that's the beauty of that pairing
. Thiago is more adventurous and more direct in his approach, he's more likely to dribble and run into the box, while Kroos is all about spreading the ball, controling his area and shooting from outside the box. It's a match made in heaven really. Who cares, who's better, I want both of them playing together for years.Or maybe they are just realist. Even with Fergie as our manager and competing for all the trophies we lost almost every bidding war against other clubs. Hazard, Lucas, Modric, Sanchez are only some of the players we were interested but we lost on them. RVP is the only one I can remember when we won a bidding war (despite City apparently offered 300k/week) but I really doubt that RVP would have joined us if we were a midtable team coached by Moyes. He wanted to win the league and SAF pretty much guaranteed it.
With the loss of SAF and with our position on the table we are in a weaker position. It will be even more difficult to sing top players if other biggies are interested on them too.
With Martinez behind them, it is all over again Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta midfield. Both Kross and Thiago have potential to become as good as Xavi and Iniesta.Both complement each other perfectly, that's the beauty of that pairing
We shouldn't ignore the power of simply being man utd when it comes to transfers. Not being in CL will be a massive obstacle, especially when PSG go in for him in the summer.
He will sign a contract though, he's playing out of his skin to prove his worth to them. All he wants is to be put on same level as goetze, ribery And robben. Bayern will pay it, the was no reason to give him that contact last summer, may as well get another 'cheap' year out of him.
He will sign a contract though, he's playing out of his skin to prove his worth to them. All he wants is to be put on same level as goetze, ribery And robben. Bayern will pay it, the was no reason to give him that contact last summer, may as well get another 'cheap' year out of him.
His performance last night left me feeling quite sure Bayern won't let him go.The only issue would be Bayern tripling his wages to keep a player who is not always a sure starter at the club.They might wanna bring through another youngster if he retains his stance that he wants a lot more cash.
For the record, I know it's easy to say that likes of PSG will get him in the summer, but here lies our problem, Going for established world class midfielders, which I think kroos now is.
What we should be doing/have done is go for the likes of kroos 2 years ago when he was an emerging talent but was always seen as the understudy to schweiney and with limited chance to take his place. We may always have to 'overpay' slightly for these players as clubs will not be willing to sell unless for right price which us fans will always undervalue. Thiago was a prime example of this, how we didn't get him was criminal. Just look at the posts in that thread with the amount of people who think they know what they are on about saying that he couldn't 'play in a midfield two'
We should have been doing this 2 years ago, and there's only one person to blame for us not doing that. We are now playing catch up and it's going to be very difficult.
What annoys me, however, is the amount of youth talent that the likes of barca, bayern, dortmund, are able to get through their system. Well, not the amount, but the sheer quality that they produce. When was the last time a player came through our ranks that would have ability to be truly world class? Scholes? That was 20 years ago! Perhaps januzaj is the best bet since...but thats still a poor return for a club with supposedly such a great youth system/facilities. Also, for the record, I dont necessarily blame utd for that, i think the culture of young english players with talent is to blame. They are not interested in trophies, glory and professional pride, they think of the brand, the cars and the women. There's also a kind of psychological block with English players, b that they could never be as good as the continental counterparts, so why bother trying? Get the money and women and enjoy it..
What we should be doing/have done is go for the likes of kroos 2 years ago when he was an emerging talent but was always seen as the understudy to schweiney and with limited chance to take his place. We may always have to 'overpay' slightly for these players as clubs will not be willing to sell unless for right price which us fans will always undervalue. Thiago was a prime example of this, how we didn't get him was criminal. Just look at the posts in that thread with the amount of people who think they know what they are on about saying that he couldn't 'play in a midfield two'
We should have been doing this 2 years ago, and there's only one person to blame for us not doing that. We are now playing catch up and it's going to be very difficult.
What annoys me, however, is the amount of youth talent that the likes of barca, bayern, dortmund, are able to get through their system. Well, not the amount, but the sheer quality that they produce. When was the last time a player came through our ranks that would have ability to be truly world class? Scholes? That was 20 years ago! Perhaps januzaj is the best bet since...but thats still a poor return for a club with supposedly such a great youth system/facilities. Also, for the record, I dont necessarily blame utd for that, i think the culture of young english players with talent is to blame. They are not interested in trophies, glory and professional pride, they think of the brand, the cars and the women. There's also a kind of psychological block with English players, b that they could never be as good as the continental counterparts, so why bother trying? Get the money and women and enjoy it..
Bayern have their pick from all the best German kids in the whole of the country.
United have their pick from all the best English kids that live within 90 minutes of our training grounds.
That explains a lot.
United have their pick from all the best English kids that live within 90 minutes of our training grounds.
That explains a lot.
I think the young English players aren't coached the proper way for the truly talented technical players to shine. There isn't a single English midfielder playing today whose the technique can be close to the best German and Spanish players. Wilshere is good but not at that level yet and his temperament is a problem anyway.
Did that rule ever come in? Surely its a UEFA rule so would apply to them too
Get all most talented and technical young English players together at the same one or two clubs and you'd probably see a big difference in their development. When they're spread out all over the country, playing with much less talented team-mates you can understand why they might not look as comfortable on the ball as the best German kids.
Yes it came in. It's been in place for years. It's an FA rule.
EDIT: although a quick google reveals that it was recently abolished when the "Elite Players Performance Plan" was rolled out. Whatever that is!
Countries like Germany and Spain have nearly ten times the number of UEFA certified coaches than England apparently. It's not just the 90 minute rule that's bogging down English talent development. There's plenty of other things that aren't conducive either. Rooney is probably the last consistently world class player that's come out of England, which is quite staggering.
Oh please, morrison and barkley have the technical ability to match the best talents from any country.
Not the first time the few decent/good emerging technical English players get overrated ridiculously. I'd understand mentioning Barkley but Morrisson ? Give me a break.
They're both super players, but I don't think that's true. They're technical from an English point of view, but Barkley wouldn't be on a par with the likes of Thiago, or even someone like Verrati, IMHO. What English players do have, though, is probably a greater desire and willingness to get stuck in, which can bridge the gap somewhat when used correctly.
Even Januzaj is not really our product, he was poached from Anderlecht wasn't he?
I can only agree. There are many reasons as to why the young English players aren't as good as others mentioned and the sad thing is that most of them are self inflected.
Not really.
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