Toni Kroos | Madridista

[Red Hand Devil]

As I see this Kroos wants United, United want Kroos (clearly), but Bayern want to keep Kroos without giving him higher wages. Both Kroos & Bayern show no sign of coming to an agreement on a new contract, but at the same time they're probably rebuffing any advances from United to show how much they "want" Kroos to stay. Kroos has said he expects to be at Bayern next season, but hasn't mentioned anything regarding his contract, so the balls in his court now. He can tell Bayern fair enough I'll stay, but if he states his desire to leave in 2015 on a free will Bayern allow that? Plus United act like we're not interested in signing him now then... we can gladly wait a season and get him for free, they don't have to have our money if that's the route they want to take. So a compromise that he'll stay on for a year but leave on a free will only force Bayern's hand to sell him for cash now. If played out right they'll have to come back to us looking for the cash. It would also help explain the current quotes from Kroos & the press quotes about LvG not wanting him any more - we can wait till after the World Cup, it will only continue to test Bayern's resolve.

Now I know it sounds like a hell of a lot of wishful thinking, but transfers are never straight forward, especially when big players are involved.

I like the cut of your jib Gaz. Wasnt expecting a full-muppet transformation from you this early in the window - but welcome aboard all the same mucker. Keep the torch burning & dont neglect the Vidal thread either - it needs some work after a very trying 24 hours in this thread

 

[Nozzy]

It's a long thread, so I'm sure it's already been said but it would be nuts for United to sign him now, Jan window or next summer for half the cost or a free.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

Thought the plan was to get most of our transfers sorted before the WC though?

Must have read Ed's numerous statements wrong i guess!

Well WC starts on 12th of June.

 

[Balu]

As I see this Kroos wants United, United want Kroos (clearly), but Bayern want to keep Kroos without giving him higher wages. Both Kroos & Bayern show no sign of coming to an agreement on a new contract, but at the same time they're probably rebuffing any advances from United to show how much they "want" Kroos to stay. Kroos has said he expects to be at Bayern next season, but hasn't mentioned anything regarding his contract, so the balls in his court now. He can tell Bayern fair enough I'll stay, but if he states his desire to leave in 2015 on a free will Bayern allow that? Plus United act like we're not interested in signing him now then... we can gladly wait a season and get him for free, they don't have to have our money if that's the route they want to take. So a compromise that he'll stay on for a year but leave on a free will only force Bayern's hand to sell him for cash now. If played out right they'll have to come back to us looking for the cash. It would also help explain the current quotes from Kroos & the press quotes about LvG not wanting him any more - we can wait till after the World Cup, it will only continue to test Bayern's resolve.

Now I know it sounds like a hell of a lot of wishful thinking, but transfers are never straight forward, especially when big players are involved.

 

[Blair]

We can probably forge a mean first XI from the United signings that never were:

------------------------??----------------------
--Coentrao-----Garay-------??---------Baines
-------------------Kroos---Thiago--------------
---Sanchez----------Sneidjer--------------Lucas
----------------------Benzema--------------------

You need Ronaldinho in there. Remember Kenyon signed him and he turned up at the Nou Camp to be unveiled by Barca........

 

[gaz1185]

I like the cut of your jib Gaz. Wasnt expecting a full-muppet transformation from you this early in the window - but welcome aboard all the same mucker. Keep the torch burning & dont neglect the Vidal thread either - it needs some work after a very trying 24 hours in this thread

I don't intend to transform any further (just yet) - It was just my general and maybe rather optimistic approach of how I see this transfer saga. I don't like to be all doom and gloom, especially so early on in a transfer window. It's not even June yet, we've got plenty of time and some scouting to do in the World Cup, it would be nice to wrap up a few deals beforehand, but you don't always get what you want.

I won't be venturing into the Vidal thread sorry - I can only handle one transfer at a time

 

[#07]

 

[gaz1185]

That wasn't intended to mean you need the cash, not in the slightest, I know Bayern clearly don't need it.

 

[sullydnl]

Yeah, I'd agree with that. This certainly isn't a case of us getting knocked back by Kroos, at worst he was at least open to the idea of joining us.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

It's a long thread, so I'm sure it's already been said but it would be nuts for United to sign him now, Jan window or next summer for half the cost or a free.

I have no idea if we're interested or if he's interested but I think if anything could happen this is the window of opportunity. I strongly think he will end up signing the contract Bayern have offered him eventually, the chance of him leaving on a free doesn't seem likely at all

 

[Adebesi]

To be fair it makes no difference to me that the transfer window has barely opened, Ive been pessimistic about this transfer window ever since it dawned on me we werent going to be in the CL next season. Its operating with one arm tied behind our backs.

 

[PedroMendez]

LvG is not David Moyes. And if Eddy doesn't get the players wanted(if there was ever a list) Van Gaal will surely get whoever he wants before the Tranfer Market is closed. This guy doesn't feck around.

the problem with van gaal is, that he might not want to sign new stars. But I am sure, that he´ll buy at least one unknown guy from the Eredivisie.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

the problem with van gaal is, that he might not want to sign new stars. But I am sure, that he´ll buy at least one unknown guy from the Eredivisie.

Depay (PSV Winger) I reckon.

 

[walkinhop]

the problem with van gaal is, that he might not want to sign new stars. But I am sure, that he´ll buy at least one unknown guy from the Eredivisie.

As much as he is known to like developing young players already at the clubs he has been at, Do we really think he will screw up his last legacy? The club and league that has always eluded him?

 

[SiRed]

We can probably forge a mean first XI from the United signings that never were:

------------------------??----------------------
--Coentrao-----Garay-------??---------Baines
-------------------Kroos---Thiago--------------
---Sanchez----------Sneidjer--------------Lucas
----------------------Benzema--------------------

Hazard
Ozil
Ronaldinho
Robben
Batistuta
Mauro Silva
Shearer
Kevin Hofland
Di Canio

We have missed out on some players over the years

 

[Red Hand Devil]

I am not sure about that. Vidal for example who was doing very well at Leverkusen was signed for 15m by Juventus.

Fees is not the problem at this point. The problem is getting our hands on players who actually want to be here. Its pointless to offer crazy money on players who do not want to come at OT.

Its always been our problem gettin top players to come here & its about time that all changed - starting with this window. No messing around - get top dogs in & send out a message & it'll echo around the world. Sick of hearing about our quarterly financial statements & feck all of it has been spent on players over the years by comparison.

Its all about United quality from now - screw average & comfort-zoners we've bought over the years. Our squad is full of them & they need shipped out. Sick of seing them in a United shirt!

In fairness, as regards to Vidal, Fergie was after him too - aswell as LvG when he was Bayern, but he either went to Juve for the money (that we wouldnt pay in wages i'd guess) or he wanted the Italian lifestyle with a world renowned club - which he got both.

Vidal's price has went through the roof (£50m would be a bargain in my opinion) - its should be, compared to the fees being paid for lesser players with no passion for the game. The problem with Vidals all action style, is how long can he keep that that standard up?

The standard that marks him out as the best box-box player in the world. I'd doubt he's a binge drinker like Keano had a history of, so quite possibly he can keep up his standard up well into his 30's. South Americans are not piss-heads & i'd gather he eats very well, so there's every reason he could be the king of OT for atleast 6 years if he signed for us.

Vidal would not fall into your bracket of players just coming for the money - he'd bloody-well earn it. From what i've heard from him - he's a really confident & proud bloke, so although he'd command a huge whack of dough in wages & fee - he earn every bloody penny of it from day one!

If he does sign & your gal is a United fan, then prepare yourself for her screaming out his name too

 

[Red Hand Devil]

Hazard
Ozil
Ronaldinho
Robben
Batistuta
Mauro Silva
Shearer
Kevin Hofland
Di Canio

We have missed out on some players over the years

Maradonna!

 

[PedroMendez]

As much as he is known to like developing young players already at the clubs he has been at, Do we really think he will screw up his last legacy? The club and league that has always eluded him?

I wasnt completely serious. If the opportunity opens up to buy a class player, he´ll not reject that. Still I dont think that he attaches to much importance to big names. I´d expect, United ends up with one top star and 3-5 talents (e.g. Shaw) or rather unknown player.
Some people hope for a complete overhaul with 4-5 big names. That just doesnt seem to be can gaal´s style.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

We can probably forge a mean first XI from the United signings that never were:

------------------------??----------------------
--Coentrao-----Garay-------??---------Baines
-------------------Kroos---Thiago--------------
---Sanchez----------Sneidjer--------------Lucas
----------------------Benzema--------------------

Varane centre back.

 

[Kakeru]

Some people hope for a complete overhaul with 4-5 big names. That just doesnt seem to be can gaal´s style.

If LVG wants to provide youngsters the best possible environment to nurture them, he will have no other choice but sign 4-5 quality players while getting rid of all the deadwood (Young, Nani, Cleverley, Fellaini, Valencia, etc.) at all costs in our current situation. It is near impossible for youngsters to grow adequately without quality established players around to show the way.

 

[Red Hand Devil]

This thread is proof that this forum, as much as the team, needs to be gutted.

A few posters are making a few decent points and then getting shouted down in a wave of emotional based bullshit and scaremongering.

I thought Ninja's were supposed to be tough?

 

[RedRover]

I wasnt completely serious. If the opportunity opens up to buy a class player, he´ll not reject that. Still I dont think that he attaches to much importance to big names. I´d expect, United ends up with one top star and 3-5 talents (e.g. Shaw) or rather unknown player.
Some people hope for a complete overhaul with 4-5 big names. That just doesnt seem to be can gaal´s style.

The squad needs a number of players and an increase in quality to be able to compete - everyone can see that. He is not a fool, and has a short time to make an impact - why would he not go and buy the best players he can?

He has previously managed big clubs with good squads already. That isn't the case here. We dont have 5 or 6 players ready to step up from the youth team and have just lost a number of very experienced players.

People seem keen to write him off as someone who will dissapoint. Give him some time before making judgments.

 

[walkinhop]

I wasnt completely serious. If the opportunity opens up to buy a class player, he´ll not reject that. Still I dont think that he attaches to much importance to big names. I´d expect, United ends up with one top star and 3-5 talents (e.g. Shaw) or rather unknown player.
Some people hope for a complete overhaul with 4-5 big names. That just doesnt seem to be can gaal´s style.

I see. To be fair though, I don't think we need that many. My realistic hope is for United to build a long-term heart, looking at the future while finishing in top 4 for 1-2 seasons. After that straight into the title challenge. We already have several young players that just haven't shined yet and are not showing their potential consistently yet. With proper management and a few additions, United will have a reliable core for years to come.

 

[RedRover]

If LVG wants to provide youngsters the best possible environment to nurture them, he will have no other choice but sign 4-5 quality players while getting rid of all the deadwood (Young, Nani, Cleverley, Fellaini, Valencia, etc.) at all costs in our current situation. It is near impossible for youngsters to grow adequately without quality established players around to show the way.

Spot on. Nothing less than CL will do next year so the propsect of bringing youth team players in for huge roles in the side is a total non-starter. Even if any of them were good enough - how would Van Gaal know given that he's not even at the club yet? Relying on or bringing youth team players through requires them to be good enough - it doesnt matter who the manager is or what reputation he has, he doesnt have a magic wand to turn average players into superstars.

Everyone knows what needs to be done and the money is evidently there to do it. Van Gaal will know what the board expect, and is clearly on board with it or he wouldnt have been given the job. That will include bringing the sqaud up to scratch.

As it is he needs success quickly - and this could be his last chance to have an impact at a top club. There is no reason to think he wont take advantage of being able to but top players.

 

[RedRover]

I see. To be fair though, I don't think we need that many. My realistic hope is for United to build a long-term heart, looking at the future while finishing in top 4 for 1-2 seasons. After that straight into the title challenge. We already have several young players that just haven't shined yet and are not showing their potential consistently yet. With proper management and a few additions, United will have a reliable core for years to come.

Why take 1 - 2 years? Why not spend big and challenge next year?

 

[Red Hand Devil]

Well WC starts on 12th of June.

Cheers for the heads up. Forgot all about that!

 

[iSparky]

This is on, I can feel it in my bones. Who cares what Toni Kroos says, that's all irrelevant.

 

[walkinhop]

Why take 1 - 2 years? Why not spend big and challenge next year?

Because all teams that spent big on several "Star" players at once failed to to so. It is almost impossible to grab the players we need in the same window. Its much safer to get Champions League football every year with the future in mind because it allows to build the squad properly and with less risk. Instead of buying players that might not slot in together(probably wont), why not get 1-2 stars and there rest being De Gea/Januzaj type of players that will carry you in the years to come. With LvG being a manager that build foundations, this is the most realistic scenario.

Get the team organized, build a solid squad of youngish, hungry, motivated players and emerge in 1-2 years time as a all-demolishing family.

 

[RedSky]

This is on, I can feel it in my bones. Who cares what Toni Kroos says, that's all irrelevant.

Bayern forced him to type that anyway, at gun point.

 

[iSparky]

Bayern forced him to type that anyway, at gun point.

He is just playing hard to get. No need for us to worry at the moment.

 

[RedSky]

He is just playing hard to get. No need for us to worry at the moment.

We could buy him some flowers? They like that right? Right?

 

[NinjaFletch]

We could buy him some flowers? They like that right? Right?

If by flowers you mean beer and meat then yes, Bravarians like flowers.

 

[hebegebe]

Sounds like a 70's nightclub singer

 

[Mali_Zeus]

Cheers for the heads up. Forgot all about that!

We have a joker here everyone.

 

[Acole9]

Apparently van Gaal is not interested.

 

[RoadTrip]

Belfast Telegraph has him quoted as saying he will not join United.

 

[Red Hand Devil]

I don't intend to transform any further (just yet) - It was just my general and maybe rather optimistic approach of how I see this transfer saga. I don't like to be all doom and gloom, especially so early on in a transfer window. It's not even June yet, we've got plenty of time and some scouting to do in the World Cup, it would be nice to wrap up a few deals beforehand, but you don't always get what you want.

I won't be venturing into the Vidal thread sorry - I can only handle one transfer at a time

Its hard not to get involved when it comes to new players coming in. Every club fan gets excited about the promise of what the next season brings. We're in an very advantageous position though & we have to push that big feckin boat on the badge out & get ourselves sorted for next season.

We just need that one marquee signing & that would stand out amongst the elite & get the ball rolling. Their agents would be ringing us - not the other way round in my opinion. I thought Kroos would do the trick & then the rest would follow soon after. Wishful thinkin of course, but top-class deals will be done in time - just hope we get all the problem areas sorted.

There is a bitta doom & gloom & i've contributed to that, but thats me voicing my opinion - same as everyone else. There's no point everyone agreeing with each other, unless its pure happiness that we got a key target of course.

Just pretty gutted about Kroos, after the previous 24 hrs of adrenaline that he had signed.

Obviously the headline "Kroos signs for United" actually meant he did an advert for the Manchester United Foundation hearing impaired section...

 

[devilish]

Its always been our problem gettin top players to come here & its about time that all changed - starting with this window. No messing around - get top dogs in & send out a message & it'll echo around the world. Sick of hearing about our quarterly financial statements & feck all of it has been spent on players over the years by comparison.

Its all about United quality from now - screw average & comfort-zoners we've bought over the years. Our squad is full of them & they need shipped out. Sick of seing them in a United shirt!

In fairness, as regards to Vidal, Fergie was after him too - aswell as LvG when he was Bayern, but he either went to Juve for the money (that we wouldnt pay in wages i'd guess) or he wanted the Italian lifestyle with a world renowned club - which he got both.

Vidal's price has went through the roof (£50m would be a bargain in my opinion) - its should be, compared to the fees being paid for lesser players with no passion for the game. The problem with Vidals all action style, is how long can he keep that that standard up?

The standard that marks him out as the best box-box player in the world. I'd doubt he's a binge drinker like Keano had a history of, so quite possibly he can keep up his standard up well into his 30's. South Americans are not piss-heads & i'd gather he eats very well, so there's every reason he could be the king of OT for atleast 6 years if he signed for us.

Vidal would not fall into your bracket of players just coming for the money - he'd bloody-well earn it. From what i've heard from him - he's a really confident & proud bloke, so although he'd command a huge whack of dough in wages & fee - he earn every bloody penny of it from day one!

If he does sign & your gal is a United fan, then prepare yourself for her screaming out his name too

Bringing top players had always been a problem to nearly anyone. Even clubs who are traditionally bigger buyers then us have failed in getting players like Rooney (Chelsea) and Vidal (Real)

If you ask me biggest downfall is arrogance. We think that just because we've got the biggest franchise in football everyone will fall at our knees just to sign for us. This mentality is pretty relevant in United's historical decision in not paying for agents (which is common practice in today's football). Mind I dont like it myself however that's how football works this day and no one likes to work for free.

Arrogance has also creeped in out decision making. How many times have we heard on MUTV that unless someone truly special like Fabregas is available we should stick to what we have? That's in my opinion ridiculous. First of all players like Fabregas rarely move clubs. Secondly as said before there's a ridiculously great gap between the likes of Fabregas and Cleverley. There's also a good amount of players who fall in that category.

Other big clubs tend to buy players a year or two before they are noticed by the top guns and then develop them. Take Juventus as an example. Vidal was bought from Leverkusen for 15m. Pirlo was deemed too old for Milan and Juventus stepped in with a 2 year contract, Marchisio is a homegrown talent while Pogba left us because it seem that no one could replace Scholes. That's a quality midfield isn't it? That's how we need to work. Get players before they join top clubs and then develop them

 

[Red Hand Devil]

Belfast Telegraph has him quoted as saying he will not join United.

Cant beat the Tele. Was only last week that they announced: "Spuds are fecked - get a boat to Ameericky.."

 

[Revan]

Out of those you've just listed. Rakitic, Strootman and Koke aren't realistic, Rakitic wants to stay in Spain while Strootman would cost a bucket load of cash to get and with Atletico selling Costa, they don't need to sell Koke (nor why the feck would he want to move to us). I still question Herrera's ability, was never sold on him and he's not impressed me this season.

Firmino would certainly improve us, but he'd be shunted out on the left, which would mean dropping Januzaj or pushing him to the right. Firmino does his most damage in the AM role.

Calvalho's interest appears dead in the water and with the Sporting manager joining Monaco, could easily see him going in that direction this summer.

So the only achievable target in your list is Herrera.

Come on now, you really think that he won't come to Manchester United because he wants to stay on Spain and play for Sevilla.

Strootman is definitely someone we can sign although it will be expensive (around the same fee as Fellaini if we want to feel better), but the problem there is the injury and it wouldn't be a good idea to sign him without him turning back from injury.

We could also tempt the fate for Martinez and as a worse alternative one of Bender brothers. Oh and Marchisio fella with whom we are always related.

I really think that we can improve our midfield with players significantly worse than Fabregash but significantly better than those we have. Of course, a Fabregas or Vidal would be ace, but if they are impossible, then better to sing some lower level players rather than hoping that Fellaini will learn how to play football and Fletcher will find his energy. And Cleverley to decide that he isn't completely useless. And Ando to lose half his weight.