Toni Kroos | Madridista

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PlayerOne said:
No need to mate, I was just interested to see if he went into detail because Vidal is dream signing!
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I can give you this: https://www.vi.nl/nieuws/leverkusen-frustreert-wens-van-vidal-en-bayern.htm

Reports by Hollands most reliable footballing magazine about Leverkusen frustrating Bayerns and Vidals wishes (to sign for Bayern), it was in the summer when Heynckes just took over from Van Gaal, so it connects well with what Van Gaal said at the press conference I was talking about.

What's also very interesting, is that Sneijder was criticized/doubted a lot by Van Gaal over fitness issues and athletic abilities in the qualifiers. He considered not selecting Sneijder for Brazil (especially when we still had Strootman fit) because he feels players with athletic abilities are more likely to make the difference at the World Cup, that's basically what he said to journalists asking him about not selecting Sneijder.

The impression I got from the whole Sneijder saga is that Van Gaal is (curious about) leaning towards a more dynamic structure in his team in favour of pure techical skill, like I said a bit in the style of Mourinho preferring Willian (excellent technique, great athlete) over Mata (brilliant technique, mediocre athlete). So he might want to implement that at United, considering the league is very physical, and all other top teams have some great (also technical capable) dynamo's in midfield.
 
It does seem a slightly odd situation, in that from the reports that came out in the last week or so, it looked like we'd been briefing the press that the Kroos move was a goer. And by that stage LVG had surely met Woodward on a number of occasions and spoken to him on many more, so if we had been pressing ahead with a move for Kroos - based on the recommendation of the guy they've just sacked, lest we forget - surely LVG would have said something prior to now. If he didn't fancy him full stop it surely couldn't have gotten this far. If he preferred other midfielders why brief the press that we were confident of doing the deal before the WC?

So it seems to me that if these latest stories saying LVG has called it off are the result of various outlets being briefed, then there can only be a few reasons for that.

1. We know the bid is destined to fail (we have enough fecking experience of it anyway) and are spinning a load of PR bullshit.
2. LVG genuinely doesn't fancy him. In that case why did it go this far/are we briefing the press only days ago?
3. He agreed to it and has changed his mind. Doesn't seem very like LVG, from what I've seen.
4. It's a negotiating tactic as he thinks the price is too high. I'm not so convinced by this, as the very fact we'd go back in for him later would tell Bayern how keen we were. No one takes a player on the sort of wages he'll be on and with the sort of fee he'll cost without being pretty sure about him. It's a bit like that daft thing of pretending not to like a house when you go and view it. The fact you're willing to mortgage your entire life to get it should be enough of an indication you really want it. What are Bayern going to say? "Yeah, you're right, he is shite, probably best if we just release him on a free transfer".
5. Another player has become available

I honestly can't see much benefit in letting it be known LVG doesn't fancy him if we're still genuinely interested. I can only assume we have genuinely moved on. All of which leaves me massively confused as to why we were apparently telling all and sundry that we could get him a few days ago. Woodward has known for quite a while that LVG was the new manager and would have, I'm sure, told him who, if anyone, we were in for. It all looks unnecessarily complicated to me, unless I'm missing something.
 
Henrik Larsson said:
I can give you this: https://www.vi.nl/nieuws/leverkusen-frustreert-wens-van-vidal-en-bayern.htm

Reports by Hollands most reliable footballing magazine about Leverkusen frustrating Bayerns and Vidals wishes (to sign for Bayern), it was in the summer when Heynckes just took over from Van Gaal, so it connects well with what Van Gaal said at the press conference I was talking about.

What's also very interesting, is that Sneijder was criticized/doubted a lot by Van Gaal over fitness issues and athletic abilities in the qualifiers. He considered not selecting Sneijder for Brazil (especially when we still had Strootman fit) because he feels players with athletic abilities are more likely to make the difference at the World Cup, that's basically what he said to journalists asking him about not selecting Sneijder.

The impression I got from the whole Sneijder saga is that Van Gaal is (curious about) leaning towards a more dynamic structure in his team in favour of pure techical skill, like I said a bit in the style of Mourinho preferring Willian (excellent technique, great athlete) over Mata (brilliant technique, mediocre athlete). So he might want to implement that at United, considering the league is very physical, and all other top teams have some great (also technical capable) dynamo's in midfield.
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Maybe that's why he opted against Kroos? Vidal would provide both technical ability and he's a great athlete. I remember reading on here that LVG didn't like Kroos playing an attacking role because he wasn't dynamic enough, so it fits in with what you're saying.
 
I wonder what's in LvG's minds, lets say he doesnt want Kroos. Who would he want then? What style of play Kroos wouldn't suit in? He can pass the ball, carry the ball, and his positioning is great. His lack of dynamic is the reason i think. In that case LvG's target will be Fabregas most likely while Carvalho won't.

Is Strootman similar to Fabregas or Kroos?
 
PlayerOne said:
Maybe that's why he opted against Kroos? Vidal would provide both technical ability and he's a great athlete. I remember reading on here that LVG didn't like Kroos playing an attacking role because he wasn't dynamic enough, so it fits in with what you're saying.
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Exactly what I was thinking, if it is true he really opted against Kroos that is, that could be one of the reasons.

Only problem with that, I wouldn't know if Vidal would even consider leaving Juventus. Seems to really found what he likes there. Like De Rossi didn't want to join us last summer from what I understand.

And I don't really know what other players could be considered, Lars Bender perhaps? But he's not on Vidals/De Rossi level is he? Anyway, I think there's a point to be made about how we could use a Yaya Touré on our midfield next season just as much as we could use a Toni Kroos.

Truedevil said:
I wonder what's in LvG's minds, lets say he doesnt want Kroos. Who would he want then? What style of play Kroos wouldn't suit in? He can pass the ball, carry the ball, and his positioning is great. His lack of dynamic is the reason i think. In that case LvG's target will be Fabregas most likely while Carvalho won't.

Is Strootman similar to Fabregas or Kroos?
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Not really similar to both. He's got good vision and passing but nowhere near Kroos or Fabregas level. Strootman hasn't impressed me as a pure holding midfielder either, good tackler but not special or something. He's an allround midfielder for sure.
 
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@Brophs It's a bit of 1 and 5. I reckon we have the terms agreed with Kroos but Bayern are digging their heels in and they're making the deal unlikely, hence the latest press briefing. The rumours about Vidal being for sale only started recently, so maybe LVG likes him more than Kroos and the club will now go after him. Or maybe we spoke to Fabregas' agent again and he's still keen on coming here. I'm sure RVP will be telling Van Gaal how good Fabregas is and it does seem like Van Gaal listens to RVP.
 
Henrik Larsson said:
Exactly what I was thinking, if it is true he really opted against Kroos that is, that could be one of the reasons.

Only problem with that, I wouldn't know if Vidal would even consider leaving Juventus. Seems to really found what he likes there. Like De Rossi didn't want to join us last summer from what I understand.

And I don't really know what other players could be considered, Lars Bender perhaps? But he's not on Vidals/De Rossi level is he? Anyway, I think there's a point to be made about how we could use a Yaya Touré on our midfield just as much next season just as much as we could use a Toni Kroos.
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On Lars, I think Arsenal were keen on him but he said he wants to stay in Germany, so that's off. De Rossi said he was going to join us and Roma were ready to sell but we passed the deadline they set so he ended up staying at Roma. There has been some strong rumours that Juve will keep Pogba and sell Vidal to fund their summer spending. It seems as though Vidal is available for around €40m, which is low for a player as good as him.
 
Strootman wants one more season at Roma and Carvalho's future seems at Sporting . The list is shortening by the day.
 
I Knew those £20m done deal stories were ridiculous!

Looks like we have a winner for this year's optimistic no go target, which makes us wonder why we seem to struggle with our foreign targets.
 
I think were end with Strootman.
It's a dream to get players like Vidal, Cesc or Kroos.

I'm making myself feel better here. Except for one or two, United transfer windows suck ass.
 
Browniee said:
I think were end with Strootman.
It's a dream to get players like Vidal, Cesc or Kroos.

I'm making myself feel better here. Except for one or two, United transfer windows suck ass.
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Strootman wouldn't be a bad end to the summer, but I do hope we sign a second more creative midfielder too.
 
Truedevil said:
I wonder what's in LvG's minds, lets say he doesnt want Kroos. Who would he want then? What style of play Kroos wouldn't suit in? He can pass the ball, carry the ball, and his positioning is great. His lack of dynamic is the reason i think. In that case LvG's target will be Fabregas most likely while Carvalho won't.

Is Strootman similar to Fabregas or Kroos?
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People keep saying this dynamism thing. What do you mean by it?
 
http://thepeoplesperson.com/2014/05/22/kroos-latest-kroos-comments-future-van-gaal-doesnt-want/?

Toni Kroos has spoken regarding his future amid heavy speculation about it and said that he expected Bayern Munich to go public with what they said in response about not bowing to Kroos’ demands.

The past 24 hours has seen Kroos’ future thrust into the limelight. Last night, both the Daily Mail and Manchester Evening News reported that United had agreed a £20m deal for the German midfielder and those reports seemed substantiated when Bayern’s president Karl Hopfner today confirmed the club would not be offering an improved contract.

However, so soon after positive signs that Kroos was available emerged,The Guardian suggested Van Gaal had ended his interest in him andESPN followed suit.

Now, Kroos himself has commented on his future and told Bild he has to accept the club’s decision to not give him what he wants and confirms he turned down their offer.

He said: “I expected the quotes from Bayern. That I have to accept & respect. After I turned their offer down, I knew how they would respond.”

What is going on with Kroos?

There are parties suggesting everything about his future – he’s staying, he’s leaving, he’s leaving next year – but nobody seems to know what is fully going on.

It’s normal for United to be involved in a smoke and mirrors situation when it comes to the transfer window but this one with Kroos seems altogether more mysterious, especially if Van Gaal genuinely doesn’t want Kroos given how much he could add to United.
 
Twigg said:
Strootman wouldn't be a bad end to the summer, but I do hope we sign a second more creative midfielder too.
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From what I've seen, Strootman would be very good for us. IF he comes back as good as new, given that it's a serious injury. But if we buy a player who's injured are we just going to doing the same old "This time next year, Rodders" routine that we've been doing for the last few years?
 
PlayerOne said:
On Lars, I think Arsenal were keen on him but he said he wants to stay in Germany, so that's off. De Rossi said he was going to join us and Roma were ready to sell but we passed the deadline they set so he ended up staying at Roma. There has been some strong rumours that Juve will keep Pogba and sell Vidal to fund their summer spending. It seems as though Vidal is available for around €40m, which is low for a player as good as him.
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Sounds good, good price too. I think under Bielsa he even played CB for Chile, he would perhaps even add more to the team than Kroos at the moment, coming to think about it. I would really like Lars Bender as an alternative for Strootman though, is he really that keen on Leverkusen?
 
Crackers said:
People keep saying this dynamism thing. What do you mean by it?
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Moving into channels, running a lot and basically act as another winger but on the middle of the pitch. Fabregas filled that role at Arsenal. Kroos plays more like a deep lying midfielder. He is calm with the ball, picks up one or two long balls here and there but never seems to run a lot with the ball. In my opinion we need one from each and thats why I am saying we should go for both. But as things stand LvG wants dynamism in his team and neither Carvalho or Kroos suit that. We'll see what happens.
 
Red Dreams said:
http://thepeoplesperson.com/2014/05/22/kroos-latest-kroos-comments-future-van-gaal-doesnt-want/?

Toni Kroos has spoken regarding his future amid heavy speculation about it and said that he expected Bayern Munich to go public with what they said in response about not bowing to Kroos’ demands.

The past 24 hours has seen Kroos’ future thrust into the limelight. Last night, both the Daily Mail and Manchester Evening News reported that United had agreed a £20m deal for the German midfielder and those reports seemed substantiated when Bayern’s president Karl Hopfner today confirmed the club would not be offering an improved contract.

However, so soon after positive signs that Kroos was available emerged,The Guardian suggested Van Gaal had ended his interest in him andESPN followed suit.

Now, Kroos himself has commented on his future and told Bild he has to accept the club’s decision to not give him what he wants and confirms he turned down their offer.

He said: “I expected the quotes from Bayern. That I have to accept & respect. After I turned their offer down, I knew how they would respond.”

What is going on with Kroos?

There are parties suggesting everything about his future – he’s staying, he’s leaving, he’s leaving next year – but nobody seems to know what is fully going on.

It’s normal for United to be involved in a smoke and mirrors situation when it comes to the transfer window but this one with Kroos seems altogether more mysterious, especially if Van Gaal genuinely doesn’t want Kroos given how much he could add to United.
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Its simple: Kroos wants to join. Munchen are less keen. United playing the game of charades.

Thats not to say we will get him but its all about the chase right now.

Though I do think this will be resolved either way before the world cup
 
I hope its resolved one way or the other before the WC. Cant take the wait. Muppets need some fuel to keep going.
 
Brophs said:
Me either. My biggest issue would be - if indeed this is what has been happening - Woodward doing or trying to do deals for players identified by another manager, particularly if LVG had any doubts about them. If we're going to hire a DoF then fine, but Woodward isn't one, nor should he be stocking the squad with players brought to him by the guy he fired after less than a year.
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Don't think so. LVG stated that Man Utd contacted him 2 days after Moyes went. I'm sure transfer targets were discussed and LVG was kept in the loop as far as discussions went. For example ever since LVG was linked with the job the Carvalho rumours have cooled which probably means that LVG made it clear early on that he wasn't interested.

Maybe he's just changed his mind on Kroos.
 
Henrik Larsson said:
Sounds good, good price too. I think under Bielsa he even played CB for Chile, he would perhaps even add more to the team than Kroos at the moment, coming to think about it. I would really like Lars Bender as an alternative for Strootman though, is he really that keen on Leverkusen?
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I would take Vidal over anyone else this summer, he would be amazing. I wouldn't care if we pass up on Kroos to get Vidal. I'm not so sure about Lars but Arsenal have been after him for two years and he turned them down, so I think for him he would rather stay in Germany. I would be surprised if we go for Strootman this summer, I think we'll save that for the January window if he proves his fitness, plus we don't have have Europe so that wouldn't be a issue.

As it stands we're pretty clueless on transfers, I really thought Van Gaal would want Kroos but it seems we're not so keen anymore, so who knows what happens next.
 
RDCR07 said:
What quotes is he talking about there?
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Bayern said they'd keep him next season regardless of whether he signs a new deal. Afterwards his agent agreed he'd be there for next season. After that he has a year left and could leave for free in June 2015 if he hasnt signed a new one.

Gluttons for punishment believing we're going to sign him. It'd be next summer for a knockdown price or for free the year after at best. Bayern have no reason to do anything with him this summer unless they want rid of him which they clearly dont
 
sammsky1 said:
Its simple: Kroos wants to join. Munchen are less keen. United playing the game of charades.

Thats not to say we will get him but its all about the chase right now.

Though I do think this will be resolved either way before the world cup
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IF LVG wants him, we will get him at a ridiculous price, with the Woodward tax on top.
 
Never mind retiring the no.11 shirt for Giggs...United should retire the idea of a midfield as the task of buying a decent one is posing far too difficult.
 
Can someone who really wants him (seems to me most ppl here) explain how they think he will be of any great use for us? At Bayern under Guardiola and Heynckes most of his games have been in the No 10 role AND he had 2 solid CMs/1CM and 1 DM playing behind him.
Whereas we have Mata who is excellent in the No 10 role AND don't have those 2 quality CMs who would be covering Kroos and who are the types we should actually buy to cover Mata/Kagawa and our strikers.

What am I missing? Is it just that because our midfield is so useless we are hoping to buy a player who we want to fulfill a certain role which he hasn't actually fulfilled in the last 3 seasons?
 
KiD MoYeS said:
The Guardian, and acknowledged by Ducker from The Times.
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So all these jokers report LVG's non-interest this afternoon - if you read the reports in the Guardian, Times, Mirror, they all write with absolute conviction. Personally I would be disappointed if we didn't sign Kroos, but I get really hacked off with these reporters anyway.
united_99 said:
Can someone who really wants him (seems to me most ppl here) explain how they think he will be of any great use for us? At Bayern under Guardiola and Heynckes most of his games have been in the No 10 role AND he had 2 solid CMs/1CM and 1 DM playing behind him.
Whereas we have Mata who is excellent in the No 10 role AND don't have those 2 quality CMs who would be covering Kroos and who are the types we should actually buy to cover Mata/Kagawa and our strikers.

What am I missing? Is it just that because our midfield is so useless we are hoping to buy a player who we want to fulfill a certain role which he hasn't actually fulfilled in the last 3 seasons?
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He's probably best as an attacking CM. We don't have one of those at the moment. I think we need one...and a defensive CM too (instead of Carrick).
 
Just read somehwere that Fabregas hasn't posed for pictures for the new Barca kits. Don't know for sure whether that's true and how it would be relevant.

But coming to think of it, wasn't RVP very big buddies with Cesc at Arsenal? I heard him say once he and Cesc had a special connection on the pitch. So with RVP being really close with Van Gaal, and with Kroos being a pretty similar player to Fabregas, could us being interested in Fabregas be the reason people are writing we're not interested in Kroos anymore? I'm getting tired of my own guessing by the way.
 
I don't believe we've cancelled the deal. Unless we have some better names already lined up (as in negotiating already) i don't see why we would cancel a deal for one of the best CMs in the world for the price he's apparently going for.

Then again this is Woodward.
 
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