Tom Cleverley | 2014/15 Performances (on loan at Aston Villa)

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MoskvaRed said:
Did Cleverley ever get abused at matches? I can't remember hearing about it. If he doesn't like anonymous idiots abusing him directly (as opposed to non-direct criticism on this august forum) then maybe he should close his twitter account?
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Pretty much. Having a twitter account as a footballer leaves you open to all kinds of idiots, it isnt for the thin skinned.
 
ryansgirl said:
I'm sure Tom Cleverly will think 'Good riddance' even more when he reads some of the comments on this very long thread if he can be bothered.

I really cannot understand the outpouring of hostility against the lad. Tom did well enough for us during his time here but some of you are acting as if he should have just sucked up any old offer that came his way instead of having the self-confidence to wait and see what could transpire. There are times when waiting your chance is rewarded, other times it will not get you anywhere.

The Telegraph at present has an online article about how Tom is tired of the stick he has gotten. His perspective seems right - he doesn't feel he deserves it but it's time to move on. I disagree with the Telegraph's subtle dumping on both Tom and Louis Van Gaal by making it look as if Louis and United are desperate to get rid of Tom.

The fact is Louis Van Gaal said honestly that Tom wouldn't be playing every week if he stayed and as a lad with ambition he has to move on. Thanks Tom, some of us think the stick you received was unnecessary, hostile, and at times puerile. Best wishes.
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He said a bit more than that.

“With me being out of contract at the end of the year if I am being honest I don’t think I would play for the club again. Louis van Gaal was always straight with me. I had a fairly good pre-season where we won every game, but he has his own players."

...

“The manager made it fairly clear it wasn’t going to happen for me there.”
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Not that this should be a problem. I think it's kinder to be honest with young footballers, rather than create false hopes.
 
I hate booing but if booing is what it takes to get rid of shit players then so be it.
 
ryansgirl said:
I'm sure Tom Cleverly will think 'Good riddance' even more when he reads some of the comments on this very long thread if he can be bothered.

.
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The feeling is mutual. You See, everyone wins.
 
So lets do a bit of resume of what happened. Cleverley is a United lad which means this club made him. This same club stick to him for years despite him being absolutely cack. Thanks to us, he became rich, he shaped a career for himself at OT which career will never be taken away from him. He thanked the club by refusing to move elsewhere for a fee and will leave, next year, for free.

Now he blames booing as one of the reasons why he left? Seriously? Why not calling a spade a spade and accept the fact that he was never good enough and that he should be thanking his lucky stars that the club had made him the player he is now and has insisted on him for so long? Average players like Cleverley are the reason why the biggest club in the world ended 7th last season.
 
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He doesn’t deserve the abuse he received on Twitter and the petition but too much is made of it, he never got abuse at games and that is a much better reflection of the fans than social media where all anyone and everyone can be subjected to unnecessary and over the top abuse. Aaron Ramsey was booed by his fans after coming back from an injury that could have potentially ruined his career but he just got on with it and was strong enough to come back and let his performances on the pitch do the talking. Cleverley on the other hand was given his chance but just wasn’t and isn’t good enough and that is why he is no longer at the club, maybe the negativity didn’t help him but he also needs to look at himself and realise the majority of his performances were poor and he can’t justify it by saying people don’t understand his role or the type of player he is etc.

Good luck to him at Villa, if he applies himself there is no reason he can’t be a decent player for them but if he doesn’t improve his performances he will find himself not playing there as well and if that happens he will find that being a free agent isn’t as good as it seemed.
 
Could be wrong but from Tom's utterances one gets the impression that he's unwilling to take his performances up a notch and is perfectly sound in his own assessment. For the record he's a very talented player, was that when he first broke into the first team and that natural ability doesn't desert someone so easily. But perhaps with him setting the benchmark at a moderate level, it's getting more in alignment with his inherent mental fragility as the same manifests itself on the field.

Might be harsh but I didn't enjoy reading these comments in particular :

“With me being out of contract at the end of the year if I am being honest I don’t think I would play for the club again. Louis van Gaal was always straight with me. I had a fairly good pre-season where we won every game, but he has his own players."

...

“The manager made it fairly clear it wasn’t going to happen for me there.”
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I've still got a league title, 13 England caps.
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No Tom you didn't have a fairly good pre-season mate. It was quite disappointing to be fair and that reflects in the manger's willingness to cut the cord. And even if you did, you shouldn't settle for that - fairly good is not the standard.

And second - the better ones are never satisfied with their own achievements nor rest on their laurels of winning a league or getting a dozen caps. You must continually seek to improve at a club like United or the halbred's gonna fall inevitably. And that's what happened.

Wish him luck though. He can still be a quality player elsewhere. Needs to be a bit more ambitious though. And hope the Villa fans are more sensitive towards him. Seems quite shy and can't take much abuse. Maybe their patience will be rewarded in due time. Or atleast that's what we hope for the sake of Tom.
 
Invictus said:
Could be wrong but from Tom's utterances one gets the impression that he's unwilling to take his performances up a notch and is perfectly sound in his own assessment. For the record he's a very talented player, was that when he first broke into the first team and that natural ability doesn't desert someone so easily. But perhaps with him setting the benchmark at a moderate level, it's getting more in alignment with his inherent mental fragility as the same manifests itself on the field.

Might be harsh but I didn't enjoy reading these comments in particular :





No Tom you didn't have a fairly good pre-season mate. It was quite disappointing to be fair and that reflects in the manger's willingness to cut the cord. And even if you did, you shouldn't settle for that - fairly good is not the standard.

And second - the better ones are never satisfied with their own achievements nor rest on their laurels of winning a league or getting a dozen caps. You must continually seek to improve at a club like United or the halbred's gonna fall inevitably. And that's what happened.

Wish him luck though. He can still be a quality player elsewhere. Needs to be a bit more ambitious though. And hope the Villa fans are more sensitive towards him. Seems quite shy and can't take much abuse. Maybe their patience will be rewarded in due time. Or atleast that's what we hope for the sake of Tom.
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He also said "Football is a game of opinions and you can’t please everyone." I wonder whom Cleverley pleased with his performances at OT. Apart from his family of course
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
Martinez has had a dig today saying we didn't loan him to Everton because they're our rivals and they finished in front of us. He's awfully cocky after one season isn't he.
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Yeah we'd never move a player to a team that finished above us the season before who we're competing against for fourth this season... Where has he been the past 12 days?
 
Its never a good thing for the reputation of a club when departing players speak of the abuse they received from their own 'fans', especially from an academy graduate. Even apart from the fact its hugely embarrassing, it can harm the club in the future when it comes to trying to sign players. If you had a choice you would rather go that extra mile for fans who you know will stick by you through thick and thin whilst you wear the shirt. That used to be part of the privilege of playing for United. Not any more it seems.

Its evident United have an incredibly large number of spoiled cnuts following the club who clearly do not understand the meaning of the word 'supporter'. Every club has their percentage and we always have no doubt but nowadays with the internet and social media it feels like the minority has become the majority. These pathetic leeches are too stupid to understand directly abusing our own players does more harm to the club than it does good.

Our jobs as fans is to give support, encouragement (and if earned ..adulation..) to the players we can see have pride in wearing the badge, such as Cleverley, in order to bring the best out of them. Trust the club and leave them to decide who's good enough and who isn't.

Just to be clear this isn't a rant aimed at anyone on here but to those lowlifes who are sad enough type abuse to players directly through various forms of social media as well as those shite blogs etc.
 
SkeppyRed said:
Its never a good thing for the reputation of a club when departing players speak of the abuse they received from their own 'fans', especially from an academy graduate. Even apart from the fact its hugely embarrassing, it can harm the club in the future when it comes to trying to sign players. If you had a choice you would rather go that extra mile for fans who you know will stick by you through thick and thin whilst you wear the shirt. That used to be part of the privilege of playing for United. Not any more it seems.

Its evident United have an incredibly large number of spoiled cnuts following the club who clearly do not understand the meaning of the word 'supporter'. Every club has their percentage and we always have no doubt but nowadays with the internet and social media it feels like the minority has become the majority. These pathetic leeches are too stupid to understand directly abusing our own players does more harm to the club than it does good.

Our jobs as fans is to give support, encouragement (and if earned ..adulation..) to the players we can see have pride in wearing the badge, such as Cleverley, in order to bring the best out of them. Trust the club and leave them to decide who's good enough and who isn't.

Just to be clear this isn't a rant aimed at anyone on here but to those lowlifes who are sad enough type abuse to players directly through various forms of social media as well as those shite blogs etc.
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What is with you text slowly getting smaller?
 
spontaneus1 said:
What is with you text slowly getting smaller?
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Halfway through my rant the font size got a mind of its own. Evidently didn't manage to get all of it back to normal.

Apologies, especially if you thought you stumbled across a vision express advert.
 
I do feel bad for him. Imagine playing for your boyhood team and being the best the team could offer at that specific moment but still being hated by your fans? The guys was first choice in a season where we drew first and lost on goal difference and the season where we blitzed the league. I really hope he goes on to become a good player and honestly if he gets played regularly behind the striker I don't see why he wont.
 
SkeppyRed said:
Its never a good thing for the reputation of a club when departing players speak of the abuse they received from their own 'fans', especially from an academy graduate. Even apart from the fact its hugely embarrassing, it can harm the club in the future when it comes to trying to sign players. If you had a choice you would rather go that extra mile for fans who you know will stick by you through thick and thin whilst you wear the shirt. That used to be part of the privilege of playing for United. Not any more it seems.

Its evident United have an incredibly large number of spoiled cnuts following the club who clearly do not understand the meaning of the word 'supporter'. Every club has their percentage and we always have no doubt but nowadays with the internet and social media it feels like the minority has become the majority. These pathetic leeches are too stupid to understand directly abusing our own players does more harm to the club than it does good.

Our jobs as fans is to give support, encouragement (and if earned ..adulation..) to the players we can see have pride in wearing the badge, such as Cleverley, in order to bring the best out of them. Trust the club and leave them to decide who's good enough and who isn't.

Just to be clear this isn't a rant aimed at anyone on here but to those lowlifes who are sad enough type abuse to players directly through various forms of social media as well as those shite blogs etc.
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I agree with the sentiment of what you are saying but the stuff on social media is pathetic and fickle most of the time and I do feel Cleverley and the media are putting too much emphasis on its importance. The real issue here is Cleverley’s performance were not up to scratch, that is something he needs to recognise and correct at his new club rather than deflect attention onto comments made on social media, negativity etc.

He made 55 Premier League appearances for United but how many really good games did he have? I would say about 5 or so with 25 odd mediocre games and 25 where he was poor or worse. That just isn’t good enough and that is down to the player, it doesn’t mean he deserves abuse but it’s the reason why he has been subjected to it and there will be much better players who will get the same sort of abuse from their own or opposition fans.
 
I don't like Tom because after a good run a few seasons ago he never decided to push on. He's been a mediocre - sometimes worse - player who has an attitude to match. From the quotes he's served up over the past year he obviously sees himself as a misunderstood genius who would be more suited to the Spanish game. Obviously none of this is the case, he's a poor footballer. I think Aston Villa is too good for him.

The only shining light of his United career is he gives other mediocre footballers and athletes the belief that they too can play at the top level for a while and steal a living.
 
Players shouldn't be subjected to any abuse, but the truth is, players like cleverly would never get as much time any other top club in europe, it's part of the reason why we've finished 7th last season.

Cleverly is a good player and he could've been a decent squad player for us, but he simply couldn't handle the pressure of being at a top club, he crumbled under the weight of expectations. He'll make a good career in the premier league without a doubt, but he'll never go back to another top club.

It's a shame he had to face so much abuse, but that's the price you pay when you play for a top club.
 
Roboc7 said:
I agree with the sentiment of what you are saying but the stuff on social media is pathetic and fickle most of the time and I do feel Cleverley and the media are putting too much emphasis on its importance. The real issue here is Cleverley’s performance were not up to scratch, that is something he needs to recognise and correct at his new club rather than deflect attention onto comments made on social media, negativity etc.

He made 55 Premier League appearances for United but how many really good games did he have? I would say about 5 or so with 25 odd mediocre games and 25 where he was poor or worse. That just isn’t good enough and that is down to the player, it doesn’t mean he deserves abuse but it’s the reason why he has been subjected to it and there will be much better players who will get the same sort of abuse from their own or opposition fans.
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I actually don't think he was capable of much better. I beleive that to reach the level he reached in his good games consistently he would need confidence from the support of the fans to some extent.
 
SkeppyRed said:
I actually don't think he was capable of much better. I beleive that to reach the level he reached in his good games consistently he would need confidence from the support of the fans to some extent.
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When he had his good games for United it was always further up the field. When him and Ando were killing teams at the beginning of 10/11 he was playing much higher up the field. He simply doesn't have the ability to play from a deeper position and thus his entire role in the team was the ferry the ball about to the players who could cause damage. At a lesser club playing as the number 10 he will do good with or without the fans support.
 
Paul Scholes was written off by youth coaches who saw him too small and with asthma problems to make at United. He was 13 at the time. Diego Armando Maradona was written off by Barcelona after picking a career threatening injury and ended up recovering at his own home in Argentina before moving to Napoli were the magic happened. Fabio Cannavaro was considered 'too old' and a 'liability to the national team' prior to his amazing run during the WC. Thats how great players react.

I believe that in the past years the standards has fallen at United. Coaches, Scouts and players were kept not because they were really good but only because they were fun, homegrown talent or had a good relationship with SAF. Too many had underachieved and were able to get away with it for far too long. When the fun fare was over they weren't really happy about it. Hence why all sort of excuses, 'opinions' and talks about 'identity' are popping out from all directions about why they failed, what needs to be done at OT.

Clev should focus on his career at Villa and do his best to achieve with them. The fans weren't really the reason why a 36 year old Scholes or a 40 year old Giggs were better options then him and would probably still be better options to him in 5-10 years time
 
Blue always red said:
When he had his good games for United it was always further up the field. When him and Ando were killing teams at the beginning of 10/11 he was playing much higher up the field. He simply doesn't have the ability to play from a deeper position and thus his entire role in the team was the ferry the ball about to the players who could cause damage. At a lesser club playing as the number 10 he will do good with or without the fans support.
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A player who's scored 2 goals during his United career, one of which was meant to be a cross and always chose the safe option over a forward pass is not going to be fine playing as a #10 at any premier league club. He got plenty chances to play further up the field especially when he played alongside Carrick and did nothing of note to prove he could handle the job.
 
Translation: I'm glad to be at Villa where I won't be held to a high standard.

Don't know why he needs to come out with that to be honest especially when he's still actually contracted to us. By and large the English footballers don't handle themselves with much class, why can't he just he was disappointed he wasn't able to help the team to success last season and with the manager wanting to bring in world class's midfield talent he thought he was at the point he needed to play regularly and that wasn't going to happen.
Instead he's just took a dig at the manager and the fans whilst making excuses for himself.
 
Invictus said:
Could be wrong but from Tom's utterances one gets the impression that he's unwilling to take his performances up a notch and is perfectly sound in his own assessment. For the record he's a very talented player, was that when he first broke into the first team and that natural ability doesn't desert someone so easily. But perhaps with him setting the benchmark at a moderate level, it's getting more in alignment with his inherent mental fragility as the same manifests itself on the field.

Might be harsh but I didn't enjoy reading these comments in particular :





No Tom you didn't have a fairly good pre-season mate. It was quite disappointing to be fair and that reflects in the manger's willingness to cut the cord. And even if you did, you shouldn't settle for that - fairly good is not the standard.

And second - the better ones are never satisfied with their own achievements nor rest on their laurels of winning a league or getting a dozen caps. You must continually seek to improve at a club like United or the halbred's gonna fall inevitably. And that's what happened.

Wish him luck though. He can still be a quality player elsewhere. Needs to be a bit more ambitious though. And hope the Villa fans are more sensitive towards him. Seems quite shy and can't take much abuse. Maybe their patience will be rewarded in due time. Or atleast that's what we hope for the sake of Tom.
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I think the press are making a bit of a meal of his comments in this context, and he is hardly likely to say that "LVG got rid of me because of my desperately limited performances over the last 18 months". But, all in all, he's doesn't seem cut out for the hothouse that is United and, like Ben Foster, he might prosper in a less pressurized environment. And, to be honest, I'm sure a lot of us in our work or study lives feel more comfortable at the equivalent of Villa rather than United.
 
This is what he had to say -

You don’t turn into a bad player just because someone says it on Twitter. I probably wasn’t the only United player to get it last year. For as long as Man United aren’t winning trophies, players will get criticised. I’m fully aware of that. I’ve still got a league title, 13 England caps.

‘If all the players say they were high in confidence last season I think they would be lying. It wasn’t just me. It was the rest of the squad too.

‘I’m sure one season doesn’t turn you into a bad player. That’s football for you. The year before I won the league, played 20-odd games.’

‘Football is a game of opinions, you can’t please everyone and the main opinion for me is the manager I am playing under.’
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I absolutely loved him when he broke into the first XI but boy this guy things too high of himself. He feels he has made it already and somehow it is the fan's fault that he hasn't been able to perform. Would love him to have a good career but I can see him get lost into mid-table mediocrity with his attitude here.
 
He's like a scared little child in that interview and clearly thick as two short planks. Just like he plays on the pitch. He just doesn't come across as a man, he doesn't talk like one and doesn't play like one. He's a 25 year old teenager.
 
No balls, no guile, feeling hard done by.

The upward curve he thinks is coming, he will be lucky if his flatlining career doesn't take a nose dive into the championship if he doesn't pull his finger out.
 
Ducklegs said:
No balls, no guile, feeling hard done by.

The upward curve he thinks is coming, he will be lucky if his flatlining career doesn't take a nose dive into the championship if he doesn't pull his finger out.
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Dunno about that...

I’ve still got a league title.
The year before I won the league.
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Could a guy with no balls single handedly win the league like TC23 has?
 
Had high hopes for him at one stage. Now, well, I just couldn't give a toss. He's turned into quite the prick
 
Thought they were fairly reasonable comments but of course Cleverley has never really been able to say anything to the media without getting abuse for it.
 
Conrad said:
Thought they were fairly reasonable comments but of course Cleverley has never really been able to say anything to the media without getting abuse for it.
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When you've got a agenda, even the most innocuous comments can be made to seem more than they are. Nothing wrong in what he's said but, plain to see how they can be turned into more by some of the posts.

He just couldn't find that next level for us and has moved on (will move on). Wish him the best - he tried his best but, his best wasn't good enough for this great club.
 
Ducklegs said:
...The upward curve he thinks is coming, he will be lucky if his flatlining career doesn't take a nose dive into the championship if he doesn't pull his finger out.
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While I would have thought him too talented for that, his attitude has left him devoid of his early form. At this rate he may well find himself there--a shame, really.
 
Conrad said:
Thought they were fairly reasonable comments but of course Cleverley has never really been able to say anything to the media without getting abuse for it.
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Doesn't it cross your mind that maybe, possibly, what he says attracts that abuse. Just think, ''I still got a league title and thirteen England caps'', ''the year before I won the league'', like many have said he's set his bar too low and now it's cost him his chance at the big time. Rather than say, I realise that my performances have not been good enough for some time but I aim to convince LvG through my performances that I have a place in his team, that slim chance I have I aim to utilise it bla bla bla.
 
Conrad said:
Thought they were fairly reasonable comments but of course Cleverley has never really been able to say anything to the media without getting abuse for it.
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Endless self promotion allied with being pretty average at what you do. own worst enemy.
 
Felt sorry for him when he was still at United. He got a lot of the blame when there were others far worse, but he really does need to shut his mouth and prove himself first before he starts blaming everyone but himself.
 
Clearly showing (not that we needed much help) that he does not have the mental strength to be a Manchester United player.
 
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