Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

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Cina said:
Yeah, the problem for me with Cleverley, and I'm sure others won't agree, is that even though he doesn't really do anything wrong in midfield, he just doesn't really do anything special that makes me think he'll be a top player for us.
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I would agree with this, but I still see it in a positive light. I really don't know if he'll ever dominate a game from central midfield but he's constantly available and his quick passing and movement is great for the team. The little things he does really help our team play nice fluid football, he's by far the best partner we have for Carrick currently.
 
ricky-romeo said:
work hard and did quite well today. disappointed with his aimless clearance at the end, where he could possibly pass to a teammate to start a potential counter attack.
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He does that quite a bit. Frustrating as feck.

I like Tom, he's always tidy in possession, he just needs to stamp more authority on a game, and perhaps take a few more risks with his passing. It's great that he keeps the ball well and keeps play ticking over, but trying something a bit more daring every now and again would do him no harm.
 
Just no end product.. I don't know if he is developing to try and be Carrick's mini me or if he is an attacking midfielder that doesn't attack.. because he's awareness and passing is top notch just does it where it doesn't count.
 
Playing within himself and it really shows. Disappointing to say the least. If he can't make the position of Carrick's partner his own with such paltry competiton, then he really hasn't a hope long term when Moyes looks to bring in some quality.
 
Thought he was very efficient and calm today. Would like to see him take a game by the scruff of the neck. Sometimes he seems to humble/quiet and is happy playing second fiddle and keeping the team ticking along. Would like to see him just take a crack or make some runs because usually good things happen when he does this.
 
Disappointed that he did not take his chance fully and play with a bit more ambition. Totally agree with the above post - nothing to criticize, nothing to write home about. Expected a little bit more from him, esp in the attacking sense.
 
I don't mind the lad putting in a 6/10 performance at this stage of the season. He needs to build up a head of steam. He was disciplined, neat and tidy. Look how long it took for Carrick to come out of his shell.
 
Drainy said:
He was joint second in terms of touches on the pitch.. not exactly anonymous then
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You should have quoted my whole post. He may have had the second most touches but he kept everything far too simple and I honestly barely noticed him.
 
Mainoldo said:
Just no end product.. I don't know if he is developing to try and be Carrick's mini me or if he is an attacking midfielder that doesn't attack.. because he's awareness and passing is top notch just does it where it doesn't count.
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Surely top class awareness and passing would mean you do do it when and where it counts.

I like him because he's a grafter and is a decent enough player. But he isn't a top midfielder on the basis that he just doesn't do enough to take hold of a game. He can have a long career at United but we really should be aiming higher.
 
Robbie Boy said:
You should have quoted my whole post. He may have had the second most touches but he kept everything far too simple and I honestly barely noticed him.
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He touched the ball more than anyone other than Carrick but you didn't notice him because he played it simple.. OK, try paying more attention then.

Not every player needs to be flashy, you know. He was efficient today, did a job and kept things ticking over. He's a good squad player.
 
Drainy said:
He touched the ball more than anyone other than Carrick but you didn't notice him because he played it simple.. OK, try paying more attention then.

Not every player needs to be flashy, you know. He was efficient today, did a job and kept things ticking over. He's a good squad player.
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Yes indeed. He is a good squad player, think you are looking for an argument to be honest. He needs to do more in my opinion as he has the talent, hope that is ok with you. You are looking for something in my post that wasn't there.
 
nahealai said:
We see 6/10 performances far too frequently from Cleverley, mate.

I am beginning to doubt whether he can consistently be a 7 or 8/10 player for us.
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Perhaps when he can get a consistent run of games for us.

Evaluations of his performances last season are harsh in my opinion. Judgements are being clouded by a disappointing final couple of months.
 
Hasn't really progressed as well as I thought he would do since we first saw him. Decent squad player but he's never going to make the difference in big matches.
 
Looking more and more like a stop gap until we sign someone of real quality. A handy squad player, but imo nowhere near as good a compliment to Carrick as Anderson is. Yes I know Anderson is often injured, but when he is in, he gives us something extra in the middle. I have yet to see cleverley dominate a midfield as Anderson can, and that has to be quite telling in what he has to offer. The more I look at our midfield options, i feel we need far better than him in our first team if we want to significantly improve in that area.
 
He's a good player to sit between a DM and and an AM keeping things ticking over, as he's not good enough defensively or in attack to occupy those key roles.
 
apotheosis said:
Looking more and more like a stop gap until we sign someone of real quality. A handy squad player, but imo nowhere near as good a compliment to Carrick as Anderson is. Yes I know Anderson is often injured, but when he is in, he gives us something extra in the middle. I have yet to see cleverley dominate a midfield as Anderson can, and that has to be quite telling in what he has to offer. The more I look at our midfield options, i feel we need far better than him in our first team if we want to significantly improve in that area.
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He reminds me of a modern day Nicky Butt! Not in style but in terms of decent squad player and will always do ok but not or never going to be a starting 11 fixture!
 
I thought he was a very good sidekick for Carrick. Carrick did all the classy works while Cleverley did the remaining.
 
Its a big year for him. He can no longer classify himself as a young emerging talent, so he needs to move up a gear, much like Fletcher did at a similar age. He has all the tools; i think it could just be a confidence thing ... if he can score some Beckham-eque type goals, those edge of the box screamers early in the season, it could fuel the next stage of his development.
 
#07 said:
He was extremely conservative until we got the second goal and didn't show anything of what he's capable of until deep, deep in the game. IMHO he has never really recaptured the fearlessness he had in his breakout season back in 2011/12. The 3-2 shield win against City and the 8-2 against Arsenal, years later, remain the high points performance wise of his United career.

In 2011/12 Cleverley showed a willingness to take players on and drive forward that hasn't resurfaced since he returned from that Kevin Davies tackle. Has that attacking intent been coached out of Cleverley? Has Cleverley buckled under the weight of expectation? Ultimately only he can answer those questions but I would like to think, whatever it is that's holding him back, he can put it right and play the way we know he can. After we scored the second he seemed to become more himself today but if he's going to keep his spot in the starting XI Cleverley's play has to be the reason for not the consequence of United wins.
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Agreed. But I'd also say that that spell you mention, 11-12 before the injury, was our best spell, ever, well, at least the best I've ever seen us play. And he was part of that. As was Ando. As was Rooney. It was youth, exuberance, great work ethic, a relentlessness, quick passing, great off the ball movement, pretty much as good as it can get, and that was the start to the season, then it was a European game away at Benfica I think and we put out a different team and played quite poor and never really recovered that form, let alone recaptured that style of play.

I have wondered many times why in the world we have not been so good since or if a run of games where we looked amazing, with everyone willing to work their hearts out for one another and press teams to feck...if it was a fluke, I mean, could I beat the Deep Blue chess computer by accident, or get a 147 in snooker quicker than Ronnie, through pure chance... And to think a team of 11 players would be collectively so lucky as to all of a sudden play better than ever before (or since) is just bonkers...but what the feck happened, why have we never gone back to that style?

I digress I know, but I'd like to see what others think
 
Mersault said:
Agreed. But I'd also say that that spell you mention, 11-12 before the injury, was our best spell, ever, well, at least the best I've ever seen us play. And he was part of that. As was Ando. As was Rooney. It was youth, exuberance, great work ethic, a relentlessness, quick passing, great off the ball movement, pretty much as good as it can get, and that was the start to the season, then it was a European game away at Benfica I think and we put out a different team and played quite poor and never really recovered that form, let alone recaptured that style of play.

I have wondered many times why in the world we have not been so good since or if a run of games where we looked amazing, with everyone willing to work their hearts out for one another and press teams to feck...if it was a fluke, I mean, could I beat the Deep Blue chess computer by accident, or get a 147 in snooker quicker than Ronnie, through pure chance... And to think a team of 11 players would be collectively so lucky as to all of a sudden play better than ever before (or since) is just bonkers...but what the feck happened, why have we never gone back to that style?

I digress I know, but I'd like to see what others think
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I remember thinking some legendary team was about to be born back then, it was mental. I think even one of the most experienced posters on this forum (Tom Clare?) said that it was the best they'd ever seen a United team play. It's weird how we went from that to playing some of the dullest football in the entire Ferguson Premiership era over the course of the two years that followed. Cleverley's injury seemed to cause the team to simmer down a bit, but there's just no way someone of Tom Cleverley's ability had that sort of impact. No disrespect obviously...it's just that every single player was in top form all at once.
 
Lawman said:
He reminds me of a modern day Nicky Butt! Not in style but in terms of decent squad player and will always do ok but not or never going to be a starting 11 fixture!
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Butt was a first 11 player though Lawman, and he was very effective and dependable in what he provided. Butt kept Scholes out of the team for a good while when the class of 92 first came through, and he was always far more than a competent stand in. When you play 2 in the middle, you need one creative and one defensive, so Butt's main opposition was Keane, which is the only reason he didn't play more often once Scholes established himself. SAF got rid of Butt to bring in Veron, because he felt we needed more creativity in deeper areas, and we know how well that worked out!

Cleverley is simply not good enough at any one job. That's his problem in my view, he is neat and tidy but simply not creative enough nor defensively competent enough to be a top midfielder at a top club.

Think Darron Gibson would have been a better example.
 
Against quality opposition, we would get overrun if we played him in a two man midfield but his main asset of keeping things ticking over would be best used in a 3 man midfield. He's a great player to have in any squad and if he adds some presence to his game, he would arguably be a great partner for Carrick.
 
Aint gota Kalou said:
Same here. Not sure why he's getting criticised from this match, thought he was good.
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Did his job perfectly. Controlled the midfield with Carrick. Kept the play fluid and the tempo up at the times when we tend to slip into zombie mode without him. Linked up nicely with the forwards. Dropped back very willingly for 90 minutes to pick the ball up off the CBs ('can't play for 90 minutes' bullshit looking tenuous once again).

Comfortable, dominant 2-0 wins are almost always the result of an accomplished, controlled midfield performance. But, you know, Fabregas would have done tricks and dribbles and stuff, and Fellaini's hair is much bouncier.
 
Brightonian said:
Did his job perfectly. Controlled the midfield with Carrick. Kept the play fluid and the tempo up at the times when we tend to slip into zombie mode without him. Linked up nicely with the forwards. Dropped back very willingly for 90 minutes to pick the ball up off the CBs ('can't play for 90 minutes' bullshit looking tenuous once again).

Comfortable, dominant 2-0 wins are almost always the result of an accomplished, controlled midfield performance. But, you know, Fabregas would have done tricks and dribbles and stuff, and Fellaini's hair is much bouncier.
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Oh come on. Fabregas is on another planet in relation to Cleverley, and Fellaini is too.
 
alastair said:
Oh come on. Fabregas is on another planet in relation to Cleverley, and Fellaini is too.
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Of course Fabregas is, that was never my point. People don't rate Cleverley because he's not 'flair' enough, whatever that means.

Fellaini can't do the job Cleverley did today. He's never been a good CM. He's either an unconventional #10, or a DM.
 
Brightonian said:
Of course Fabregas is, that was never my point. People don't rate Cleverley because he's not 'flair' enough, whatever that means.

Fellaini can't do the job Cleverley did today. He's never been a good CM. He's either an unconventional #10, or a DM.
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That just simply isn't true, and is overrating Cleverley.

He's not a bad player. He's a solid part of a decent midfield, but he is nowhere near top quality. He just doesn't exert enough influence on games. Fellaini is the better player.
 
As many have mentioned, also for my liking he keeps it simple a bit too often. Could be a bit more adventurous our Clev. He's capable of it.
 
Kraftwerker said:
No way. We're so weak in midfield in terms of numbers it's ridiculous. We have 3 midfielders for 2 positions!

Even signing 2, that's still just 5 for 2 positions. And Anderson is perpetually injured to ever be relied on.
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True, but my point was more that if your midfield was at the same standard as the defensive or attacking options in your squad, he wouldn't be there.
 
alastair said:
That just simply isn't true, and is overrating Cleverley.
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Which bit isn't true? The bit about Fellaini? That has nothing to do with how I rate Cleverley, it's to do with Fellaini. Plenty of people simply don't understand him as a player. He's not a link-up CM of the type we need to play next to Carrick. Cleverley, while not a world class star or anything, is good and is perfectly suited to that job.

Cleverley has 'exerted influence' on some big games, against some big players. He came on in that Community Shield, turned it on its head, outplayed Toure, and basically made us win the game. But people forget his good performances because they're not easily YouTubeable. They can't be remembered for wonder goals or dribbling the whole defence. You can only see that he's good by watching him, and the caf has a short memory for that sort of player.

I'm not going to keep arguing it on here though. Even if Moyes gets no-one in and he gets a chance to establish himself, he'll simply become the new Carrick. When we play well, it will always be because of someone else, someone more exciting and highlight-reel-friendly. And the common denominator won't be identified. So there's no winning for the people who can actually see that he makes us a better team than our current alternatives (or the likes of Fellaini).
 
alastair said:
That just simply isn't true, and is overrating Cleverley.

He's not a bad player. He's a solid part of a decent midfield, but he is nowhere near top quality. He just doesn't exert enough influence on games. Fellaini is the better player.
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Agree with this. Probably not going to be much more than a squad player with us (which is fine). If we are after the best players in the world then we need to have better players than Cleverley in the centre of the park for us. And you never know perhaps signing a world class CM will spur him on to improve more and play better as well.
 
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