As a partner for Carrick I would much rather have Cleverley than Fellaini, we don't need a defensive mid next to Carrick.
Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances
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I see what people mean when they say they see him as a squad player but isn't/won't be a top player. I think it's a fair assessment. However I do think if he keeps his head down, keeps working hard, and keeps learning from the players around him, then he could continue to progress and get better and better. I think Fletcher had his real breakthrough season age 26. So it's possible that Cleverley could take his game up a level or two in the next few years. He won't be top bracket by any means, but he could be damn good.
Oh, Al. So nearly a post that people could agree with.
Cleverley did not dishonor the red shirt today.
Thank you. Obviously I'd love us to bench him for someone like Fabregas or Gundogan. But Fellaini would be utterly inappropriate, and lots of the other mooted options simply aren't any better than Tom. McCarthy, who I am constantly promised is a special talent and much better than a 'journeyman' like Cleverley (
), put in a nothing performance today. Cleverley was much better.
Come on.Out of interest, what does everyone value Cleverley at? I'd probably go for £7m.
Agree. I was trying to think of players of a type/level that Cleverley could potentially reach but couldn't think of any. Arteta is a good choice.
He's still the best (current) option to play next with Carrick.
Out of interest, what does everyone value Cleverley at? I'd probably go for £7m.
What's the point of this other than to annoy people?
indeed. I like Fellaini and wouldn't be against signing him but he hasn't shown he's any better than Cleverley in midfield on a consistent basis.I'm interested.
Fellaini is going for £24m. And some people rate them similarly, which would imply they value them similarly.
Played fairly well today, got into the game more as time wore on, especially when he drifted out to the left.
When did Fellaini get sold for £24 million? I honestly can't see us paying that even if we are interested, which probably means he stays at Everton (hopefully).
Out of interest, what does everyone value Cleverley at? I'd probably go for £7m.
At the moment he's worth at least 20 million to us simply because we can't afford to lose any more midfielders. Right now Carrick's worth just north of 100.
Not that anyone would pay that much for them, but that's sort of the point.
Well it's what it is imagined he'll go for.
I have never rated Fellaini that highly, but this forum makes him sound horrendous. I'm surprised Silent Witness doesn't go mental over some of the bollocks posted about him.
I don't think on any other forum you'd even have a debate over this.
I'm not sure. Against opposition like today, when we are easily the better team, I think Anderson should get the nod. Anderson's weakness of course is defending so against better opposition he shouldnt start ahead of Clev.
At the moment, Cleverley is going through a spell that Carrick did, when everyone questioned what the point of him was.
Cleverley needs a run of games to cement his position. He also needs to play within himself less. I suspect my first point is intrinsically linked to the second.
Cleverley needs a run of games to cement his position. He also needs to play within himself less. I suspect my first point is intrinsically linked to the second.
This is how I see it. Cleverley's got more intelligence, for me. Ando's better in games when we have the initiative.
I remember how for a number of seasons Fletcher was the whipping boy and now it looks like its Cleverley
That's because our defending and attacking options are amongst the very best in the world.
Cleverley is certainly not amongst the best midfielders in the world. But he can certainly do a job in the squad for Man United.
Am I the only one that actually quite likes him in the team?....Give me Cleverley over Anderson or Jones in the middle.
Out of interest, what does everyone value Cleverley at? I'd probably go for £7m.
Neither were Nicky Butt or Phil Neville.
Didn't stop them being part of ridiculously successful teams.
Of course, but it was their hard work allied with the talents of the other players that allowed that to happen.
Fellaini would be a perfectly acceptable squad player for us to cover for Carrick. The only reason some of us are defecating on him is because of his presumed price tag.
The figures banded around for Mccarthy have been in the £12-£15 million range haven't they? So probably in that bracket.
OK, £12m seems more reasonable than I was expecting to hear.
I like him. I think many simply dont see what he does and how its important. One poster on here thought he was anonymous despite the fact he had the 2nd most touches of the ball in the game. he keeps the ball rolling and everytime the ball moves an opposition player is moved. Its an important principle when trying to create spaces and gaps to attack.
Exactly. Which is why we didn't ship them off to Reading or wherever it was you said Cleverely would be playing.
You need these players in your squad. Cleverely has shown numerous times he can come in and do a job, even if he's not the longterm answer to our starting midfield.
What a bonus it is to have a player as dedicated and skillful as cleverley in our team. He brings so much energy and is a great asset....whether he can ever develop his game to open up teams more and add goals to his locker remains to be seen....if people had seen carrick at the same age at west ham they'd have laughed at you if you had told them that Carrick would be a world class midfielder at utd years later
Yep your right Apotheosis was going to use Quinton Fortune but Nicky Butt iirc was only a regular after we sold ince and when Keane was injured (he was actually in pfa team of the year just seen it on wiki) as we lacked options but once Scholes found his feet he was back up much the same way as i expect Cleverley to be.
I disagree. Carrick was always highly rated, and there was suggestion we should have signed him before spurs did. Being out of favour at West Ham is hardly any reasonable barometer for future potential, they also mocked Lampard iirc. Carrick was criticised at WH because - as we have often seen here - there were times when he didn't look like he was giving his all and clearly could have given more. That is one thing their fans will not tolerate, so it was far more a questioning of his attitude, rather than questioning his ability.
With Cleverley it is quite clearly a question of whether he is good enough to play in midfield for a top club. I don't doubt his attitude or his workrate for an instant, nor do i recall anyone else having issues in that regard. I hope he proves the doubters wrong, but to me he just doesn't seem to have anything special in his game. I just don't see where he fits in our system, he is not creative enough to play a Scholes or Giggs role, and he doesn't have the passing range or defensive nous to play deeper. i would like us to go 4-2-3-1, with someone similar to Carrick giving us a solid base, and then the 3 behind RVP can interchange freely in front of them. I still see Cleverley as a more attacking player than a defensive one. However in my view we need someone better than him in midfield if we have any serious ambitions to challenge the European elite.
Needs a third midfielder or a proper number 10. Missed rooney today.
I don't think anyone dislikes him in the team Sam, he is a likeable character. But in the big games has he got enough? my problem with him is that he rarely does anything different. He just plays little 5 or ten yard passes keeping things ticking over, but in games when we are struggling he doesn't seem capable of making the difference. Anderson is a far better option in my view, when he is fit of course, which admittedly isn't often enough. But when he is he gives us drive and power through the middle, something which can make a difference. One poster once said to me 'is it cleverley's fault he isn't world class'? Well no, but then it isn't really my fault for pointing that out either. I want him to be the player we all thought he could be 2 years ago, but it is his own performances that are leading to the doubts.
It is up to him now to do what Carrick has done, up his game and prove he has got what it takes. Carrick brought the criticism upon himself by not producing what we knew he was capable of. Cleverley is now in the position where he has to prove that he is capable of taking his game to the next level, because in my view, the level he is regularly producing is not enough to convince me he is anything other than a temporary stop gap until we sign someone like a modric, fabregas or thiago, whose quality and class is irrefutable. That is the standard of player we need in our midfield if we are to compete with other teams who have comparable talents in their respective teams.
I have no problem with people saying we could do with someone better than him, really. A Fabregas, Thiago or Gundogan. My issue is with people suggesting that that means he's 'average' or 'not good enough'; that mediocre buys like Fellaini or McCarthy would represent an improvement on him; or that he's not comfortably the best player in our current squad for that 'next to Carrick' position.
What he does give is an excellent awareness of players around him for the quick pass...he's great at finding space to look for the pass...he's clever at one-twos and stuff....and defensively he'll run forever and is infinitely better than scholes ever was at tackling...some of his interceptions and sliding tackles are impressive...his positional sense seems off...but he will be very handy to have and he may take his career to the next level in a year or two...but maybe not...he's no wilshire but he could become a carrick type player even though he is miles away from that now and has yet to display defense splitting passing ability frequently enough
What price would you put on Wilshere? Because whilst I think he's the better player, Cleverley has outperformed him whenever they've come up against one another. So the distance perhaps isn't as massive as some would have us think.
I'd probably price Cleverley around £15-18m, in the current market. That's the least we'd have to pay to get someone similar. Obviously United would never actually sell him for that, because barring the odd special case, we never sell anyone who isn't near useless to us.
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