so...er...Tom Cleverley then...
Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances
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Saw him in Altrincham the other day...I was like, woah... Tom Cleverley.
I think hes decent. How about yourself? we're allowed talk about him in here right?
Carrick has obviously been excellent this season but to say he's been a 'one man midfield' is clearly a bit silly. Cleverley played very well 2/3 of the season, Anderson was a regular for the first 1/3 of the season and played very well too. Jones and, more notably, Rooney made important contributions. But above all Giggs, I thought played extremely well several times in midfield. All the players were in supporting roles to Carrick, who was the main man, but you don't win the title with a one man midfield.
With all that said, we clearly need to strengthen in that department, and I am sure we will. I think Cleverley can be a very important squad player for us and is more than capable of being a regular first teamer. He had a big learning curve this season and on the whole, until I think he somewhat burned out, he coped admirably. I'm optimistic, a better playing surface (such as we are laying now) will further aid his natural game and not drain his legs as much over the winter months.
With all that said, we clearly need to strengthen in that department, and I am sure we will. I think Cleverley can be a very important squad player for us and is more than capable of being a regular first teamer. He had a big learning curve this season and on the whole, until I think he somewhat burned out, he coped admirably. I'm optimistic, a better playing surface (such as we are laying now) will further aid his natural game and not drain his legs as much over the winter months.
Martinez and Carrick midfield. I don't see that working as good as they both are they do similar job's. The attacking support would lack with them both playing in midfield. Carrick is not really dynamic enough to play any role other than the one he does now. I don't get Shinj's point about Spaniard's being in fashion they are producing great midfielders currently only germany like Brightonian pointed out can compare. I see where he is coming from in regards to Carrick and Martinez. Tom I like him does things differently from other English midfielders but he is 24 soon so next season he has to kick on I still see him as a squad player but he should be a good one.
Alonso worked amazing with a more limited Mascherano. Of-fecking-course Carrick (similar to the Spaniard) would work as well with a better DM in Martinez.
One thing that amazing about Carrick, he works well with any good technical player. Carrick is tactically superb, he can make his partner look even better
One thing that amazing about Carrick, he works well with any good technical player. Carrick is tactically superb, he can make his partner look even better
Seriously? Giggs was woeful every time he was stuck in the centre of the park, his best performances came when he was out wide. He was a full on liability as part of a midfield 2.
Cleverley needs a great season - this is really his last chance to make it with United I believe. There's lots of chat about his potential, and his successful loan spells, and his great pre-season tourneys etc - but he's still never shown it for a prolonged period of time for United. He looks decent at most things, but not a long passer and certainly not a long shooter. Good energy and movement, but that really should be the least we expect from a kid of his age.
Nonsense. He's already done enough to show he's good enough to be a United player. The only debatable point is how important a player he can become.
Agreed. He's certainly good enough that we're not going to get rid or anything. If nothing else he's already established himself as a good squad player.
Awfully unfit though ain't he ?
look like sometimes, but might be old news now i hope.
he just needs Moyes to gave him a good run (8-10 games) straight starting the season to warm up and tune his engine...
Carrick can rotate with Strootman for the time being... When Cleverley reaches his best, add Powell to the mix and we have a stocked midfield mixing youth and experience.
Kagawa and januzaj in for the advanced midfielder role... (plus Rooney if he stays...)
edit: if we were to add Thiago into the equation, then Powell out on loan hopefully to a premier league team.
Cleverley has already made it with United. He is an established squad player. The only thing now is to see if he can step up from that to bonafide starter.
But is he really 'an established player'? He probably has about as many first team prem appearances as Kleberson. (okay, 30 (Clev) to 20 (Kleb) - so a few more)
I really want him to work out as he'd another feather in our 'youth-setup' cap, but as optimistic as I was 6 months ago, I just worry now.
Let me put it another way - most fans are not thrilled with our central midfield this season (or last season). He was in it, alongside our best (or 2nd best) player. Therefore, something has to give. If you're not blaming Carrick for our relatively weak midfield, then you have to look at the other half. And for the first few months of the season, that was Clevs
I really want him to work out as he'd another feather in our 'youth-setup' cap, but as optimistic as I was 6 months ago, I just worry now.
Let me put it another way - most fans are not thrilled with our central midfield this season (or last season). He was in it, alongside our best (or 2nd best) player. Therefore, something has to give. If you're not blaming Carrick for our relatively weak midfield, then you have to look at the other half. And for the first few months of the season, that was Clevs
But is he really 'an established player'? He probably has about as many first team prem appearances as Kleberson. (okay, 30 (Clev) to 20 (Kleb) - so a few more)
I really want him to work out as he'd another feather in our 'youth-setup' cap, but as optimistic as I was 6 months ago, I just worry now.
Let me put it another way - most fans are not thrilled with our central midfield this season (or last season). He was in it, alongside our best (or 2nd best) player. Therefore, something has to give. If you're not blaming Carrick for our relatively weak midfield, then you have to look at the other half. And for the first few months of the season, that was Clevs
He was in and out of it. Mostly when he was in it was better than when he was out. He was definitely not in it much 'for the first few months of the season'. That was when the Caf was crying out for him or Anderson to be starting, but Giggs and Scholes kept getting the nod. At the end of that period, somewhere in November, he started to get a decent run of games, and that signalled the start of our most settled period in terms of general team form and midfield performance.
It's as though some people just don't understand how the club regards academy graduates that show a lot of potential. Mind boggling.
Different. Carrick and Martinez are so similar. Mascherano had a role as did Alonso and their foundation got the best out of Gerrard and Torres. Mascherano was the snapper breaking up attacks and giving it to Alonso who start attacks and dictates from deep, Alonso was not scared to get stuck in either. Carrick and Martinez are both in the Alonso mode you want two different kind of midfielders in a midfield two.
Im sorry but if Carrick has a 4-cilinder, Martinez has a V8 supercharged... and i love Carrick!
How you can say Martinez is similar to Carrick? Martinez is more defensive, better tackler and pressing, but less passing range and creativity.
They are players who position wise play in the same position was my point. Technical players who operate from deep of course their styles will be different. But in a midfield two which one of them is getting up the pitch to link the midfield and attack it is neither's best skill. You wouldn't want a midfield two of Carrick and Martinez for that reason.
I mean position wise and where they would predominantly play on the pitch not ability.
Not really... Javi Martinez LOVES to roam forward with the ball at his feet. I dont know why people here see him as a pure defensive midfielder. He is much more a box to box midfielder, who has a quite good passing ability, and goal scoring ability as well.
he is a superior player than Carrick in almost every aspect, sadly... no point in denial this.
I didn't I agree he is the better player I just said I was not discussing ability I was discussing positioning. No he isn't Schweinsteiger is the box to box midfielder even at Bilbao he was often at centre back. At Bayern Martinez is the one who has more responsibility defensively breaking up attacks and protecting the back four he can initiate attacks like a Carrick or Alonso also but he is a replacement for Busquets and a replacement at centreback. He is huge scores a fair few headers classy player but box to box dynamic midfielder he is not.
If I believed and agreed with what "literally everyone" on this site says then United will be a relegation threatened club that plays shit football.
One-man midfield, sell Young for a bag of chips, Valencia has been found out, Evans is a wanker, Rooney is a smoking fat twat who is way past his best, Moyes is a cnut because he is taking a vacation...yada, yada, yada.
I attempted to argue that there were plenty good central midfielders, suited to our needs, spread all around the world. Doesn't matter if they are 3 Germans or 3 Spanish or 3 Croatians or whatever. We don't "need" or shall "desire" a Spanish mid, he could be from fecking Timbaktu for all I care. We need someone to partner Carrick and compete with Cleverley, to bring out the best in him.
I apologize if I made some assumptions in a Tom Cleverley thread. Central midfield & suitability for our team being some.
Though it's better to end it by saying, I'm done.
Let's get back to Tom.
IMO, he'll have a better next season then the one that ended last month. He'll prove many wrong and will be an important player for United in years to come.
The Caf is a depressing place in the summer, so much arguing for nothing. Like conceding a point is some sign of personal defeat
I agree, this would be a much better place if everyone agreed that a Spanish midfielder is wanted.
I concede.
Cut short your stupid holiday and get us a Spanish fecker, Moyes!
I concede.
Cut short your stupid holiday and get us a Spanish fecker, Moyes!
You have this overreaction going for you Shinjisan, you interprets post to the extreme.
I'll take it as valid criticism and try to improve, mate.
I've got a lot of time on my hands. I'm currently downloading old matches. I really want to see how well Cleverley did vs. Tottenham and Arsenal in 2011/2012. I'll end up making match compilations. The question I have: did he play differently in 11/12 to 12/13? I think he did more running with the ball and took more risks, but I can't remember. Here we go...
Playing next to Anderson he took less risks.
I don't remember much. What I do remember, however, is that our midfield was vulnerable on the counter.
And in the air/picking up loose balls. Anderson played his normal game, which left Cleverley to play more of a holding and retaining the ball kind of job more like Carrick
I'm looking forward to a good season from Cleverley this year, one thing I am confident Moyes will do is work well with our Young English/British talent.
Clevis & Butthead
Not a single staff member knew who or how rich they were.. 
And particularly Tom. In the unlikely event that we don't get a midfielder to bench him, I think he's going to make a lot of people on here eat their words next season.
For all the money he has, the shirt Buttman had on looks exactly like the undershirt I wear beneath my work shirt on a chilly day.Not a single staff member knew who or how rich they were..
Psh, that's a $450 cotton tee my man. Ice blingy.. cash.. Or whatever they say.
Seriously? Is that a thing?
I thought he played tonight with a point to prove to Moyes. That even with a CM coming in the Summer that he is going to continue to work hard. Very crisp in his passing, got stuck into plenty of tackles, and tried a few more adventurous longer balls than usual (which didn't always come off) but you could see he was trying to step it up a bit.
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