Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

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I don't get this thing with getting annoyed that our players aren't being praised enough in the media.

Maybe it's just cos I don't read the sports press. I'd have thought though that the less he was hyped the better.
 
Plechazunga said:
I don't get this thing with getting annoyed that our players aren't being praised enough in the media.

Maybe it's just cos I don't read the sports press. I'd have thought though that the less he was hyped the better.
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In normal circumstances you would be correct and I'd agree, Cleverley's different for me though, fair enough if Wilshere is talking all the plaudits but come on articles questioning what Cleverley does well? What a piss take.
 
Plechazunga said:
I don't get this thing with getting annoyed that our players aren't being praised enough in the media.

Maybe it's just cos I don't read the sports press. I'd have thought though that the less he was hyped the better.
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Indeed.

The lad seems to be confident enough as it is without a massive amount of hype anyway. Scholes never needed the hype and never wanted it, and neither has Carrick. Look how they turned out.
 
Shark22 said:
Indeed.

The lad seems to be confident enough as it is without a massive amount of hype anyway. Scholes never needed the hype and never wanted it, and neither has Carrick. Look how they turned out.
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Well Carrick's turned out to be a player who's widely criticised by both opposition supporters and his own and has never had the international career he deserves. The fact England for years have played Barry and Parker over Carrick is quite obviously a piss take (great for Man Utd supporters who acknowledge his ability though)
 
charlenefan said:
Well Carrick's turned out to be a player who's widely criticised by both opposition supporters and his own and has never had the international career he deserves. The fact England for years have played Barry and Parker over Carrick is quite obviously a piss take (great for Man Utd supporters who acknowledge his ability though)
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Yeah in regards to Carrick, it has been a piss take. My point is though, that it's a great attribute to not crave the limelight. Carrick and Scholes don't seem like the type of players that are fazed by it and I don't think that that's a bad thing.

Does the fact that Carrick has been criminally underrated affect him? it certainly doesn't seem to.
 
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/blog/_/name/manchesterunited/id/1152?cc=5901

Cleverley's true worth

Steven Howard of the Sun has asked "who 'gets' Tom Cleverley?" Howard, who notes that the Manchester United midfielder has played in all seven internationals since Euro 2012, is nevertheless somewhat bemused by Cleverley's continual presence in the England team. Howard and his colleagues were also bewildered by England manager Roy Hodgson's comparison of Cleverley with Cesc Fabregas. So this is as good a moment as any to state a case for the midfielder's defence.

Cleverley's place alongside Michael Carrick in the Manchester United midfield, playing at its base in a 4-2-3-1 formation, has been a key reason behind his team's greater fluidity and better form this year. Cleverley, who frequently breaks forward to link with the trio of playmakers ahead of him, provides a perfect contrast to Carrick's laconic approach.

The only other player in United's squad who shares his range of attributes is Anderson, who is arguably more gifted but far more prone to injury and fluctuations in fitness and form. It is no coincidence that Cleverley has started and starred in United's most impressive performances this year, including away wins at Newcastle United and Manchester City.

During a season in which United's wide players have struggled for form, Cleverly has also found himself deployed as one of the wide runners in a midfield diamond, a makeshift role in which he has flourished in the Premier League. Without his contribution there, both attacking and providing passes for the overlapping Patrice Evra, it is highly doubtful that United would be leading the Premier League at all, let alone by a margin of nine points.

Not only does Cleverley have excellent stamina, he is also a gifted passer of the ball, ranking 14th in pass completion in the Premier League and third of all midfielders eligible to play for England (behind Swansea's Leon Britton and his club team-mate Paul Scholes). However, given the relatively deep position in which Cleverley plays, he is not often far enough forward to provide the assists that would make his statistics far more impressive, nor is he (yet) an accomplished finisher in the vein of, say, Frank Lampard.

Cleverley's key asset is his speed of thought on the ball. His ability to exchange incisive passes at the highest tempo is why he is so rare, and so highly rated by Hodgson and Sir Alex Ferguson. A famous and enduring example of this quality is Nani's equaliser against Manchester City in the 2011 Community Shield, where Cleverley was a swift and nimble architect of one of the goals of the season.

With England apparently making a transition to a style of fast, efficient passing, Cleverley is an excellent companion for Jack Wilshere. Over time, as their partnership develops, Howard and his peers will surely see why.
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Cleverley is a good player and deserves to start for the national team without question but I'm not sure we'd be so impressed by him if he wasnt English (and United's other midfield options bar Carrick were better). He needs to keep adding to the nice goals he's scored already and control the game a bit more. But he's come on leaps and bounds defensively since last season where he barely made a tackle.
 
Ekeke said:
Cleverley is a good player and deserves to start for the national team without question but I'm not sure we'd be so impressed by him if he wasnt English (and United's other midfield options bar Carrick were better). He needs to keep adding to the nice goals he's scored already and control the game a bit more. But he's come on leaps and bounds defensively since last season where he barely made a tackle.
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Interesting point because I've seen people (by people I obviously mean Liverpool supporters) say Henderson is on a par with Cleverley and yet I've never seen anything from Henderson to support that opinion but is that me being blinded by the fact that Cleverley plays for Man Utd?
 
charlenefan said:
Interesting point because I've seen people (by people I obviously mean Liverpool supporters) say Henderson is on a par with Cleverley and yet I've never seen anything from Henderson to support that opinion but is that me being blinded by the fact that Cleverley plays for Man Utd?
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:lol: I think we can safely say he's better than Henderson. And I'm sure if we overrate Cleverley a little because he's English, the same will be true of Henderson.
 
I don't think that he's overrated at all. I haven't heard a single bit of praise that hasn't been justified on here at least.

Perhaps last season he was being overrated when we were waiting on him to return from injury, but this season he's been one of our best performers(especially in the big games) and the praise he's been getting is fully justified IMO.
 
Shark22 said:
I don't think that he's overrated at all. I haven't heard a single bit of praise that hasn't been justified on here at least.

Perhaps last season he was being overrated when we were waiting on him to return from injury, but this season he's been one of our best performers(especially in the big games) and the praise he's been getting is fully justified IMO.
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Maybe thats right.
 
charlenefan said:
Interesting point because I've seen people (by people I obviously mean Liverpool supporters) say Henderson is on a par with Cleverley and yet I've never seen anything from Henderson to support that opinion but is that me being blinded by the fact that Cleverley plays for Man Utd?
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Liverpool fans never cease to amaze me. Henderson is no where close to the potential of Cleverley let alone contributing to his team like the way Cleverley does for us. Tom has been brilliant this season and his presence in the England squad ahead of any other English midfielder shouldn't surprise anyone. Just wish Anderson was fit more often to give Tom a break so they rotate on and off.
 
Henderson is a different type of player to Cleverley, tbf. Joe Allen if anything is a similar type of player who looks good when rest of the team plays well and looks bad when they don't.
 
The thing that struck me about that Sun article was this line:
Of course, he is overshadowed at United by Wayne Rooney, Robin van Persie and Michael Carrick.

Carrick has taken 5 years to go from invisible "what's the point" status, with this same type of journalist, to overshadowing. You would think they'd have learned their lesson really.

However of course you can forgive them for not getting it. Cleverley's at his best in link ups with players as quick of thought and pass as he is, and there aren't many about. Though Danny, the other doubt in the article, is one of them.

Meanwhile, he's doubting an English midfielder for not being a typical English midfielder? Which is of course exactly the reason why most of us are praising him.
 
Cleverley needs to add a bit more "highlights" to his game. He is a neat and tidy player but he can improve his final ball and presence in midfield. If he keeps improving as he did over the last 3 years, we have a fantastic young midfielder in our hands. He will be a regular starter for England and United no doubt
 
charlenefan said:
In normal circumstances you would be correct and I'd agree, Cleverley's different for me though, fair enough if Wilshere is talking all the plaudits but come on articles questioning what Cleverley does well? What a piss take.
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I must have a blind spot for Cleverley as I just don't see it with him. I am of the opinion just now that I'm obviously wrong as all my mates rave about them and so does everyone else on this forum. But I just don't see it I think he's decent at best hopefully my opinion changes asap. Last player I really felt like this was Brian Mclair and I ended up loving him.
 
I think what people see is his intelligence mainly. He doesn't have real natural brilliance at anything in particular, but he's good at most things and works damn hard. That sounds like any average PL midfielder, but the difference is he's such a thinking player: he always knows what he's going to do when he gets the ball, and generally executes it really well and really quickly, which has a big effect on our game.

The other thing, which is probably connected, is his rate of improvement. His touch and passing, as well as tackling, keep moving up a level.

I agree with you that it's possible to overstate this. He's never going to be Iniesta, and he hasn't been one of our best performers this season as shark suggested above. But what excites us is the difference he makes to our game (especially Carrick's) and his potential to keep improving. If he stays fit I think he'll be a more important player for us than someone like Fletcher, which would be great, you don't need a team full of geniuses.
 
We also need to consider that playing in center midfield is not something he was trained to from a young age and you can tell he is still getting used to the role even though he is learning the trade quicker than most I've seen.

In a way you can strike a comparison with how his career is going with Scholes's. I'm sure people would have asked the same question with Scholes if not for insane amount of goals he was scoring, it took a good few years for people to change from 'Paul Scholes scores goals' to 'when Scholes plays well, United plays well'. I'm not saying he is the next Scholes but I certainly feel his game will become much more expressive or dominating as he matures. Apart from being intelligent, I think he is a very good footballer technically and this will start to show more in highlight reels.

His intelligence, work ethic and SAF's unquestionable ability to keep his player's feet firmly on the ground gives me nothing but positive vibes about his future. If players were stocks then I'll be investing most of my money on Cleverley.
 
Agree with plech, it's his intelligence that sets him apart from anyone else and as Tooni says there is a very strong resemblance to Scholes. Not through his ability, but through his quick thinking.

He knows what he wants to do before he gets the ball and is very good at playing possession football, he's going to be fantastic for us over the years to come and he is the man that will keep our midfield ticking. I have very high hopes.
 
Good posts by Plech and Tooni. For some players, you have to focus on them to know what they bring to the table. Casual observers would only see the game, looking to be entertained; thus they only notice the 'highlight' performers.
 
Tom is a proper United player, if the English media don't want to appreciate him that's fine. Football is a simple game, we love to see audacious tricks and skills but there is no shame in just being a good Footballer like Tom. He'll add more facets to his game as he matures.
 
It's not really a co-incidence that our best run of form has come up with Cleverley in the side.

As said by Pletch, I really love his desire of improving himself, I reckon he's one of those who puts in extra effort and leaves the training ground last.
 
KM said:
It's not really a co-incidence that our best run of form has come up with Cleverley in the side.

As said by Pletch, I really love his desire of improving himself, I reckon he's one of those who puts in extra effort and leaves the training ground last.
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Certainly will be the case. I think it was Gary Neville who said on Sky that Cleverley was close to not being signed on from his youth apprenticeship.

Given the fine line of being dropped at a young age, you'd assume he'd be as humble as they come and a hard-worker. It's often those given a smoother and cleaner ride at the youth levels who get complacent once they've 'made it'.
 
I feel somewhat confused that in an era where everyone is admiring Barcelona pass and move approach, not many actually rate Cleverley on what he does best.
 
charlenefan said:
I honestly cant remember a young English player with so much clear potential not get hyped up, it's actually quite annoying that the whole country isn't praising Cleverley even if it might be better for him in the long term
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There's no need for the nauseating levels of hype surrounding Jack Wilshere, for example. As long as managers see his value, we're all good.
 
RedRonaldo said:
I feel somewhat confused that in an era where everyone is admiring Barcelona pass and move approach, not many actually rate Cleverley on what he does best.
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I think Clev suffers because he's not seen as one of the best players at United. It's a trend I have noticed a lot with English players at the big clubs. For example, when at Villa the likes of Barry, Milner and Young were widely lauded by the English media and football fans. However once at bigger clubs and no longer being the stand-out player at their side the general opinion of them goes down.

Also because English football media and casual fan is still stuck in the dark ages of thinking that England need players to make lung-bursting runs and throw themselves into challenges, and there opinions are based hugely off goal scoring statistics. Especially since in CM England are used to goalscorers like Lampard/Gerrard or destroyers like Parker. Cleverley is such an alien concept for most of them.
 
I think there's a general underrating of a lot of our players though - it tends to be players from Britain and Ireland but there seems to be more myths surrounding our players than any other team.
 
I don't expect unhealthy levels of hype for any of our players but is it really too much too ask for the media to at least recognise their contributions that have enabled us to open up a 9 point lead??

Dea Gea has a firmly established reputation of being a dodgy keeper in the media now when in truth he has easily been one of the best keepers in the league this season. Evans has been our best CB over the course of the whole season and you have clueless people in the media calling him our disappointment of the season. Cleverley, who has started almost every one of our big games is being questioned because these cnuts don't know what he brings to our team. Even Nani a couple of season back when he was brilliant and without a doubt the best in the league was barely acknowledged and yet the same people wank over Bale.

It's annoying as feck but as long as our manager knows his football and we are up there every season I can't have too many complaints I suppose
 
Just watched a vid on youtube, refreshing my memory on his youth team and reserve exploits. He wasn't half bad at left back, but can't say how thankful I am that he made the transition to centre mid.
 
He did very well especially in the second half. We had a poor period in the first half and his assured possession in the second made sure that didn't happen again. Fantastic striking technique for the volley.
 
Ainu said:
He did very well especially in the second half. We had a poor period in the first half and his assured possession in the second made sure that didn't happen again. Fantastic striking technique for the volley.
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He struggled in the first because Jones didn't give him a passing outlet, once Carrick came on Cleverley came into his own again.
 
Thought he was class for most of the game. We had that usual mind-boggling and frustrating period of not being able to keep possession but it would've been a very different game without him.
 
Must be frustrating that neither of his two recent brilliant volleyed shots has scored. That would be the sort of 'highlight' football that several people think he needs to add. The way he cut across the ball for today's was superb, and if Howard hadn't made that awesome save I think it would have been in off the underside of the bar.
 
His speed of thought and execution really is Scholesesque, and he's getting better and better at consistently playing the ball over the defence and into space. If he keeps adding tools to his kit, he'll be world class.

It really is weird... he's so unremarkable in most ways, and yet makes such a difference to our play.
 
Thought he had a good game, more so in the second half when Carrick came on. Really nice strike for the volley, shame that it didn't go in.

I would like him and Carrick to be starting in the center against madrid
 
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