I think Carrick is a more talented footballer than Cleverley.
Carrick could have been a top player if someone had lit a fire under his ass.
Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter Bebe
- Start date
- Status
I think Carrick is a more talented footballer than Cleverley.
Carrick could have been a top player if someone had lit a fire under his ass.
I agree. But Cleverley seems to have a fire naturally burning under his ass, his improvement curve has been fantastic. Roy Keane wasn't an amazing natural talent but for a while he was the best midfielder in the world.
I second that. From a player that seems only fit as attacking midfielder, he's adapting very well in a 2-man central midfield in a space of less than a season.
He's the definition of a fast learner (attribute you put on your CV when applying for a job): his crossing is getting better, his defensive positioning is improving, and I've noticed in few games lately that he tried more long diagonal passes. Seems like he's absorbing all like a teenage kid among adults in United.
At least for 70 minutes or so, he makes us forget that we have midfield problem against big teams so far. A big testament for his quality.
Put simply, Cleverley has assumed Carrick's mantle. I see it every time he is discussed by rival fans: "not really sure what he does", "doesn't take the game by the scruff of the neck", *other such asinine statements*.
I thought he had a very good half yesterday, and England lost fluidity and cohesion when he went off.
I thought he had a very good half yesterday, and England lost fluidity and cohesion when he went off.
Rather than wasting his career being the main midfielder in a regular title winning team
Rather than wasting his career being the main midfielder in a regular title winning team
4 PLs and a Champions league, starting 80+% of the games.
And Carrick is not a "top player".
fecking hell but theres some messed up posters on here.
He's something like five years older than Wilshere, so no I wasn't counting him.
I reckon that is exactly where he is going to end up in the long term. He may actually outshine Carrick, if he continues on this development trajectory. As he gets older, he'll get better positioning sense and will improve his passing. He is already is more aggressive, has a better shot and is more mobile.
Wilshere will always have, for lack of a better word, more oomph in his game. Cleverley will be solid and effective. Jones and him excite me more than any other young player in our team.
Tom has a better shot than Carrick? That's news to me.
The movement in England's midfield simply went to shit when he went off, and they ceased initiative to Brazil immediately. I thought Lampard's beautiful goal masked the fact that England lost all mobility the moment Cleverley went off.
Gerrard as the deeper midfielder with Wilshere and Cleverley ahead of him doing the legwork and Walcott/Welbeck as wide forwards worked a treat. It could well be that Roy Hodgson has stumbled upon the solution for England's lacklustre performances against good opposition with that setup, plus it takes away the need to play any one of the donkeys up front.
Gerrard as the deeper midfielder with Wilshere and Cleverley ahead of him doing the legwork and Walcott/Welbeck as wide forwards worked a treat. It could well be that Roy Hodgson has stumbled upon the solution for England's lacklustre performances against good opposition with that setup, plus it takes away the need to play any one of the donkeys up front.
Its nice just to have 2 English midfielders who know how to dictate the tempo of the game and they're both very young still. Yes Wilshere is the more talented but as long as they both work in tandem for England that's all that matters... its rare for England to possess one guy in midfield who is comfortable in tight spaces and can wriggle away from pressure on the ball, we now have two coming through at the same time.
And to think that, among other England managers, Roy '30 years experience of 4-4-2' Hodgson would be the one to take this initiative playing 3 in midfield. Giggs does work in mysterious way.
You can see he's been watching Beckham's training DVD's for his crossing. The arm swung out, the curl on the ball.
One thing I really like about Cleverley is the variety he's shown this season. He can get stuck in, he can play intricate fluid football, he can sit back and spray the ball around, he can play behind the forwards and he's a threat from the wing.
Wonderful talent.
One thing I really like about Cleverley is the variety he's shown this season. He can get stuck in, he can play intricate fluid football, he can sit back and spray the ball around, he can play behind the forwards and he's a threat from the wing.
Wonderful talent.
Of course he does, he scores more goals and has a lovely curl on his foot.
He seems to have improved a lot in a fairly short period. Imagine if he hasn't had the injuries? Looking forward to home developing more over the next few years.
Carrick's probably better at hitting them from range ... he just doesn't do it very often as he prefers to retain possession and carve out an actual chance (though having said that, I don't think I've seen Tom strike it from distance all that often?).
When he does hit them though, they're invariably quite impressively struck.
When he does hit them though, they're invariably quite impressively struck.
Scoring more goals now equals better shot? Riiiight, so Chicarito has a better shot than say, Roberto Carlos? or David Beckham?
Carrick strikes a ball much better than Tom, although Tom has more goals in his game.
Sounds about right.
He doesn't. Cleverley hits the ball with more accuracy. Carrick gets the very odd screamer.
I'm looking forward to seeing Tom contribute more in the old goal department in future.
Fairly surprised at Carricks lack of goals these past few seasons. I understand he generally plays fairly deep. I'd still like to see a few more shots here and there. Or a bit of the old arriving late in the box.
Fairly surprised at Carricks lack of goals these past few seasons. I understand he generally plays fairly deep. I'd still like to see a few more shots here and there. Or a bit of the old arriving late in the box.
You're confusing shots, with the strike of the ball. van Persie for example, has a great shot, Carlos was great at striking the ball, but there wasn't a great deal of consistency in it.
What exactly is your basis for this? Carrick has got a very good shot on him, he just seldom uses it. Besides, it's hardly like Cleverley is regularly banging them in.
Carrick is probably our most accurate striker of the ball Cina after Scholes.
No way. Rooney, RvP, Nani and Cleverley are better at striking a football than him. You're really overrating Carrick here, even DDG can pelt it better than he can tbh.
I'm not confusing anything.
Rather than wasting his career being the main midfielder in a regular title winning team
You've got to be very precise with your language around here!
I meant that he might have been ranked among the best midfielders in the game, which he clearly never has been.
You're defining striker of the ball differently to about everyone else in this thread.
Wtf is that music thought the bosses phone was ringing for a second there.
Its the way he and Wilshere invite players onto them with teasing pass-timings. It's great to watch. Opens up the play really well to when you can skip past someone coming at you.
thought the bosses phone was ringing for a second there.Its the way he and Wilshere invite players onto them with teasing pass-timings. It's great to watch. Opens up the play really well to when you can skip past someone coming at you.
Well I'm just trying to argue that Carrick has a better shot on him than Cleverley, there's no question about it for me. But I'll define it like this then:
If I had to choose between a ball being pulled back to Cleverley or Carrick on from 20 yards for a shot, I'd put my money on Carrick every time over Cleverley, no doubt. Carrick has a cracking shot on him, he just doesn't use it that often.
A gentle reminder...
Check out some of Carrick's goals there, Cleverley simply is not capable of some of that cause Carrick has a better shot on him.
that nutmeg in the first video where he attempts a drag of the ball. Class!Brazil took off Luis Fabiano and Ronaldinho at halftime and replaced them with younger players who actually defended and tracked back.
I like Cleverley, but the England match was not the greatest test he has faced this season.
I like Cleverley, but the England match was not the greatest test he has faced this season.
If the ball fell to a player at the edge of the box you'd actually have Carrick as the player you'd want most for it to fall it to after Scholes? Madness.
Signing off with such a statement isn't helping your cause here. So far, Cleverley has preferred placement over power when striking the ball. Does that mean he's incapable of it? A few games ago, forgot which one, he hit a sweet half volley that just narrowly missed the top corner. It was one of the rare occasions where he tried blasting the ball, but he showed excellent striking technique, even if it didn't result in a goal. He's taking on more and more shots and you can see his confidence growing. There's every reason to believe you could create an equally impressive video compilation of Cleverley scoring belters and curlers by the time he reaches that stage of his career. To say he isn't capable of it is madness.
Not many are capable of hitting shots like Carrick, his strike is pretty stunning to be fair.
I've already conceded that Cleverley is a bigger goal threat, but the idea that Tom "has a better shot than Carrick" is what is madness here.
What the feck even is that? Why is every sentence on a different line? He's written all that and basically surmised that he has no idea about Cleverley really. What exactly was the point of the article?
How the feck is that man a journalist? Even the structure is awful. Single sentence paragraphs. It hurts my eyes!
What's the point of that article?
That is something he has decided to form as a sentence in that article. fecking hell.
Those are all fine goals, particularly the first against Roma, but they aren't that many over the years. You're almost making it sound as if he's a long range specialist, which he clearly isn't. When the mood takes him and the situation presents itself, he can hit a sweet strike. That doesn't sound too disimilar from Cleverley, only the latter is still early in his career and doesn't have too many moments to reflect on yet. He's shown enough technique and capability to believe that he can equal Carrick in that department, given enough time.
- Status