Regardless of who is better, the two of them should be starting together as part of an England midfield 3 for years to come.
No idea who that 3rd person will be over time mind...
No idea who that 3rd person will be over time mind...
Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter Bebe
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Henderson, duh.
My money's on Michael Mancienne, after Pearce takes over.
Right now, definitely Carrick. Although not right now, obviously, as he's 'injured'.
After Carrick, it's hard to say. There's really not a lot of decent English talent coming through in DM. We sure as hell don't want Rodwell there.
Carrick would be ideal behind those 2.
Chalobah can play DM and has been doing well there from what i've read, though think he'll be a CB probably.
Chalobah can play DM and has been doing well there from what i've read, though think he'll be a CB probably.
Yeah, I meant after Carrick (though lets be honest, an England midfield without Gerrard? We'd have to be dreaming... regardless of the fact that Carrick has been the best English midfielder in the country this season)
It looked forever to be Rodwell, but he's career is currently going nowhere very fast... bloody hell, maybe it will be Henderson
Carrick never shows for England, it doesn't surprise me that he hardly gets a look in.
Henderson is not a Defensive midfielder anyway. The likes of Powell/Hughes/Barkley/Mceachran might be pushing too. At least one of them if you don't want a designated DM.
Except for Chalobah who is doing well at Watford, is there any Deep midfielder coming through?
Except for Chalobah who is doing well at Watford, is there any Deep midfielder coming through?
Pretty much every game in the last 2 months or so since the home game against West Brom. The game against Man City he was taking their midfield on by himself, he won the midfield battle quite convincingly against Gerrard and Lucas the other week. Had a quiet first half against Chelea away, but then put Walcott away a few times clean in their area, chances he should have buried in that second half. Could have got a couple of assists against Stoke last week as well if it wasn't for some woeful finishing.
Is Cleverley v Wilshere the new Lampard v Gerrard debate?
Cleverley has been integral to us winning our biggest matches so far this season.
Funny really, because no one seems to want to play Carrick for England.
---------Carrick
--Wilshire---------Cleverley
Chamberlain-------Welbeck
---------Rooney
Though in reality it will be more like this
Milner----Barry----Wilshire----Young
------------Rooney
-----------Sturridge
No, because unlike Lampard and Gerrard, Cleverley and Wilshere will play brilliantly together - their style of football tends to become exponentially better the more players who subscribe to it you put together (see Barcelona/Spain for more details). So the debate is always going to be academic.
EDIT: People, WilshEre is spelt with an 'e'. It's really not difficult.
Obviously Wilshere has been excellent but thought Cleverley has been very good himself.
I missed the first half, what is he doing well so far? I'm dying to see himself and Jack linking up.
Footballing glue. Whatever the midfield needs to make it work, he provides it.
Doesn't play with the personality or technical ability of Wilshere, but his value shouldn't be overlooked.
Doesn't play with the personality or technical ability of Wilshere, but his value shouldn't be overlooked.
I liked him more than Wilshere in first half. I don't think he lost possesion once, and still played some good football, while Wilshere lost the ball few times.
This Wilshere vs. Cleverley shit will forever annoy me I feel. Wilshere is better but both are technically gifted players who will benefit England so much.
Wilshere has been brilliant tbf. Think he's playing a lot more advanced today as compared to what he does for Arsenal.
Its obvious a player who is making forward runs and trying through balls is going to lose it a couple of times than someone who is just trying to keep the ball and keep it simple.
Both have been very good though.
Yeah, I agree, no problems with that.
He had a great half. Fat Frank has already lost possession twice since half time...
Edit. Nice finish though
Edit. Nice finish though
There's no shame in not being as good as Jack Wilshere, he's probably the best centre midfielder England's produced since Steve Gerrard. Cleverley's already very good and he's getting better all the time.
Also, since he came off, we've notably been overrun in midfield.
Also, since he came off, we've notably been overrun in midfield.
Ideal for Cleverley, a good performance, and nicely coming off rested at half time.
He's going to be pretty important over the coming weeks.
He's going to be pretty important over the coming weeks.
ITV saying Cleverely went off injured?
It was more of a Clive Tyldesley guess by the sounds of it.
They are both fairly equal in terms of movement, Wilshere probably better in the pass but definitely better when moving the ball with feet.
England midfield was shit without Cleverley to be honest. We need to sign Wilshere, somehow.
I'd break the bank for him. Who knows? What if Arsenal miss out on Champions League football for a couple of seasons?
He's not get the aggression that Wilshere has, but the game he plays is still essential.
Keeps it ticking, that's the best way to sum it up, he'll add other components to his game as he develops. Passing and movement is top.
I think he does, it is just his type of game that is different. Wilshere definitely looks the natural dribbler and tempo dictator where as Cleverly looks the legs to that Wilshere playmaker role.
Wilshere more Pirlo to Cleverley's more Keane-like pass and move.
I said earlier in the thread that Cleverley is a facilitator, he links up the play, looks after the ball and allows others to play. Wilshere is more of a bona fide star player who will produce more eye catching moments. Like you say though, Cleverley will be essential for a fluid England team that will retain possession.
A facilitator, that's the word I was trying to think of! Agree completely.
I reckon he has it in him to be more than a facilitator. Carrick's a facilitator, Cleverley has more invention and goals in him than he's generally shown so far - he's concentrating on getting the simple things right (and succeeding).
Yeah I agree. He is not the Scholes type playmaker. He just keeps things ticking along calmly. He doesnt attempt those cross field balls as often as Scholes does and there is no problem with that. He needs to get forward more so he can contribute more by scoring goals for us.
Lampard played very well, and obviously got the crucial goal. But we had more control of possession, territory and the flow of the game when Cleverley was on, and that was against Brazil's first choice XI. Obviously he's not Wilshere - I'm not sure there's a young CM as good out there at the moment - but he's very good indeed, and crucial to allowing the likes of Wilshere and Rooney to do their stuff. He and Wilshere make each other twice as good, it's a joy to watch them play together.
Heartening to see some proper gritty defensive play from him today too, he seems to have drastically improved that side of his game from the start of the season when he was too easily shrugged off.
Heartening to see some proper gritty defensive play from him today too, he seems to have drastically improved that side of his game from the start of the season when he was too easily shrugged off.
Also our midfield was mostly shite when we took Cleverley off, we stopped being able to keep the ball and got overrun at times.
As for young midfielders who are as good, Fabregas is still better than him, if he counts as young.
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