Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

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I was genuinely baffled by a few people coming on and slating Cleverley yesterday after and during the match.

Carrick was very good but Cleverley was the perfect foil for him. His industry, closing down and general energy allowed the static Carrick time on the ball, helping him to keep things ticking over for us in the middle of the park. Surely that is not overly difficult to see?

We had the same kind of comments after the Arsenal game mind, and he was decent during the first half again. Let's just say it is not a coincidence that when he is off the pitch we look far more static as a team.
 
TheReligion said:
I was genuinely baffled by a few people coming on and slating Cleverley yesterday after and during the match.

Carrick was very good but Cleverley was the perfect foil for him. His industry, closing down and general energy allowed the static Carrick time on the ball, helping him to keep things ticking over for us in the middle of the park. Surely that is not overly difficult to see?

We had the same kind of comments after the Arsenal game mind, and he was decent during the first half again. Let's just say it is not a coincidence that when he is off the pitch we look far more static as a team.
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People are lost when they can't blame the midfield
 
Seems like Carrick enjoys playing with him. Cleverley's movement and tireless running opens up space in midfield for him to spray the passes, whereas Carrick's positioning allows Cleverley to join up the attack. They complement each other well.
 
Plato said:
at 23? christ!!
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23 isn't that young in today's game in fairness. Anyway, not agreeing either way with any opinion of Clev, just saying that while he still has room for improvement, Nick Powell is a proper 'young player'. Tom Cleverley is a regular international! As far as I'm concerned, players should be expected to deliver at 23.
 
It's not his chronological age that's important, it's the amount of minutes he's had on the pitch and the experience he can draw upon as a result.

He's still very much a youngster finding his feet and it shows in the way he plays imho.
 
Rozay said:
23 isn't that young in today's game in fairness. Anyway, not agreeing either way with any opinion of Clev, just saying that while he still has room for improvement, Nick Powell is a proper 'young player'. Tom Cleverley is a regular international! As far as I'm concerned, players should be expected to deliver at 23.
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But you need to put things into perspective. We're talking about CM here. It takes a while to get the right sort of consistency there. It requires A LOT of experience. Hence why some of the most lauded central midfielders are lauded when they hit their prime. Cleverley has yet to hit his prime. Tom has just begun for me. He's beginning to establish himself in our midfield and in England's. I'll consider him a regular when he begins to displace some of the more senior players.


So you expect 23 year old players to deliver consistently? In central midfield? What do you mean exactly by deliver? I hope you don't mean putting it all together because at 23 as a central midfielder, that's simply not common. This doesn't just go for Cleverley, this goes for all of our other young lads which I think some of you lot have become quite impatient with. Not everyone develops at the same rate.

Is there any surprise why comments on our young players fluctuate so frequently? At 23, you're certainly not at the stage where your game is consistent. For most players, 25-27 is where they show much more consistency. I've said it before but it's dangerous to jump to conclusions on players when they're still developing. I'm not saying you have done so but if you expect to see everything Tom has to offer at this point in time, you're going to be disappointed. It seems like many other fans share this disappointment as well.

It's ridiculous to expect the lad to dominate games and to dominate consistently. I've not seen many young CMs do that so soon into being more involved with the first team for top sides. Playing in central midfield is a very nuanced position and he's got some corks to work out if he wants to be a regular in our side and in the England setup. I just want to see what he's like with a run of games and I think since it looks like this will be his first full season for us, it would be better if we left some deeper analysis of Tom's progress later on in the season.
 
TheReligion said:
I was genuinely baffled by a few people coming on and slating Cleverley yesterday after and during the match.

Carrick was very good but Cleverley was the perfect foil for him. His industry, closing down and general energy allowed the static Carrick time on the ball, helping him to keep things ticking over for us in the middle of the park. Surely that is not overly difficult to see?

We had the same kind of comments after the Arsenal game mind, and he was decent during the first half again. Let's just say it is not a coincidence that when he is off the pitch we look far more static as a team.
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That's not exactly the best example to use since we looked far better once Anderson replaced him.

As for the 'he's 23' argument... Wilshere is 20; Smalling is 21; Kagawa is 23; Song was 23 when he was playing consistently for Arsenal; Sami Khedira was 22-23 when he signed for Madrid; and people have been moaning about Anderson's inconsistency for years now despite the fact that he only just turned 24.

Mind you, it's not that I think Cleverley has been bad or anything, just that there's nothing wrong with expecting more from someone who is supposed to be first choice (apparently) at Manchester United.
 
Andrew~ said:
That's not exactly the best example to use since we looked far better once Anderson replaced him.

As for the 'he's 23' argument... Wilshere is 20; Smalling is 21; Kagawa is 23; Song was 23 when he was playing consistently for Arsenal; Sami Khedira was 22-23 when he signed for Madrid; and people have been moaning about Anderson's inconsistency for years now despite the fact that he only just turned 24.

Mind you, it's not that I think Cleverley has been bad or anything, just that there's nothing wrong with expecting more from someone who is supposed to be first choice (apparently) at Manchester United.
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Sure but are players like Song and Wilshire playing at a mature level so young the norm or anomalies?

Be mindful we're talking about CM here. A different beast to playing as an advanced midfielder which carries less responsibility but requires a huge amount of talent.
 
Plato said:
Sure but are players like Song and Wilshire playing at a mature level so young the norm or anomalies?

Be mindful we're talking about CM here. A different beast to playing as an advanced midfielder which carries less responsibility but requires a huge amount of talent.
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I don't think they are anomalous at all, well maybe Wilshere is. But most top teams have one or two midfielders who play regularly that are in the 22-25 age range.

In fact, apart from Real and City, pretty much every other top team has midfields made up of a majority of players in that age range. But I guess the point is, if Cleverley isn't expected to put in performances consistently, why should he be starting?
 
Andrew~ said:
I don't think they are anomalous at all, well maybe Wilshere is. But most top teams have one or two midfielders who play regularly that are in the 22-25 age range.

In fact, apart from Real and City, pretty much every other top team has midfields made up of a majority of players in that age range. But I guess the point is, if Cleverley isn't expected to put in performances consistently, why should he be starting?
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Well for one, this is his first full season with the team. Last season was riddled with injury and sub appearances. Not every player develops the same and I think it's quite clear Cleverley is still easing into the team. Is that a problem? What better option do we have anyway?

And about those top teams, you mind listing them and their midfielders since you say it's a majority? Be mindful I said CMs reaching age 25 generally start asserting their influence more.

For Cleverley, it's not a matter of age but a matter of experience. If you compare the amount of games Cleverley has had compared to Anderson, it's nothing. Anderson also has much more European experience and we've seen how this experience has made Ando into a better player. Unfortunately for him, he's experiencing fitness issues.

At the end of the day, Cleverley needs plenty of experience. Main reason why I find some of the criticism overly harsh. Before you can expect Cleverley to perform consistently, you need to realize he needs more games to get the necessary experience to become a regular in the side.

What's going through your mind? Do you not think he's good enough?
 
Personally I think criticism of Cleverley this season is harsh. As a team we haven't consistently performed well this season, so expecting Cleverley to seems a bit odd. The team has done well in patches and for the most part it's the same for individuals. At the start of last season him and Anderson were bossing the midfield but Cleverley beside Anderson is a different prospect to Cleverley beside Carrick who has been his midfield partner in most of the games he's played in this season.

Imo he brings a mobility that our midfield lacks when he isn't in it. He speeds games up, he doesn't dwell on the ball but moves it quickly then moves himself into space making himself available to receive it back again instantly. Most of the gifs you see with our one touch passing Cleverley is a big part of it.

Expecting him to boss/dominate/dictate/direct games is asking a bit much, how do you know this is what SAF has set him out to do? He keeps the opposition on their toes constantly with his movement and isn't a pushover either as he is difficult to dispossess.

Cleverley also hadn't been given a consistent run probably because SAF was managing him tentatively after playing in the Olympics and all of the England games this season. Carrick has played every PL game but one and he's just getting into his best form - the same could be said for Yaya Toure, so give the lad some slack.
 
Criticisms of him?

Christ I've been delighted with his contributions this season. He's faded and gone missing at times in the odd game but overall for a 23 year old centre mid playing in a midfield two he's been fantastic and really influenced the positive nature of our play in that we have an urgency about us when he plays.

Course he's not perfect yet and who cares if there are players of the same age or younger that have managed too display more quality or consistency? He's coming along in leaps and bounds as far as I am concerned.
 
You can't expect him to have great game, when three players in front of him are playing like shit(young was better then Rooney and Valencia though, but still nothing to spectacular, he was invisible for most of the game). I though he did reasonably well yesterday, considering he didn't have no one to play with him.
 
Pexbo said:
Criticisms of him?

Christ I've been delighted with his contributions this season. He's faded and gone missing at times in the odd game but overall for a 23 year old centre mid playing in a midfield two he's been fantastic and really influenced the positive nature of our play in that we have an urgency about us when he plays.

Course he's not perfect yet and who cares if there are players of the same age or younger that have managed too display more quality or consistency? He's coming along in leaps and bounds as far as I am concerned.
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well said Pexbo
 
Plato said:
But you need to put things into perspective. We're talking about CM here. It takes a while to get the right sort of consistency there. It requires A LOT of experience. Hence why some of the most lauded central midfielders are lauded when they hit their prime. Cleverley has yet to hit his prime. Tom has just begun for me. He's beginning to establish himself in our midfield and in England's. I'll consider him a regular when he begins to displace some of the more senior players.


So you expect 23 year old players to deliver consistently? In central midfield? What do you mean exactly by deliver? I hope you don't mean putting it all together because at 23 as a central midfielder, that's simply not common. This doesn't just go for Cleverley, this goes for all of our other young lads which I think some of you lot have become quite impatient with. Not everyone develops at the same rate.

Is there any surprise why comments on our young players fluctuate so frequently? At 23, you're certainly not at the stage where your game is consistent. For most players, 25-27 is where they show much more consistency. I've said it before but it's dangerous to jump to conclusions on players when they're still developing. I'm not saying you have done so but if you expect to see everything Tom has to offer at this point in time, you're going to be disappointed. It seems like many other fans share this disappointment as well.

It's ridiculous to expect the lad to dominate games and to dominate consistently. I've not seen many young CMs do that so soon into being more involved with the first team for top sides. Playing in central midfield is a very nuanced position and he's got some corks to work out if he wants to be a regular in our side and in the England setup. I just want to see what he's like with a run of games and I think since it looks like this will be his first full season for us, it would be better if we left some deeper analysis of Tom's progress later on in the season.
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Plato you sum my point up beautifully. Which is United should have someone who can do this starting and Cleverley as back up ala Fletcher to Scholes and Keane! But this is not the case. I'm not blaming Cleverley but simply pointing out the obvious!
 
Great cameo from him today won tackles, played some nice passes and made an extremely positive impact with his movement and energy dunno why he was dropped as I thought he played well against Swansea.
 
He changed the game today. He was making runs and generally helping Carrick out, which allowed our play to become much more faster and hence allowing Valencia the chance to run down the wing.
 
Brought energy and urgency at a time we needed it when we were 3-2. He will only get better as well. Hes very neat and tidy and keeps things ticking with his one touch play at times.
 
The second he came on we attacked with so much pace. Literally every time we went up field we were able to create openings with ease.

Although I didn't really noticed him that much today, it is evident that he has a positive effect on the team.

When we play with pace we are devastating. When we are slow we look like a mid table team.
 
I'm always right said:
Was excellent defensively too and made some excellent interceptions.

Just an all round massive improvement on Scholes.
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Sadly, I guess, this is true.

He was fantastic when he came on, tracked back well and made us attack space with a bit more speed. He might have been helped a bit because the other players was a bit tired on the wet pitch, but he was great.
 
Was good when he came on today. Brought another body full of energy on the field which allowed the team to start pushing forward quicker and made the team look dangerous again. Needed his legs when the game became so stretched in the last ten or so minutes before we finally got in front.

He has had his break now, should be starting the next match
 
Having atleast one of Cleverley or Anderson in our team makes so much difference to our play. can't wait to have them both fit and playing every week.
 
cleverley and carrick have to be our CMs, until ando returns at least. these 3 players are miles ahead of others we've got right now.

sorry to say but scholes is a shadow of himself this season. he is okay coming off the bench to keep the ball and spray brilliant 40 yards crossfield passes but apart from that he is quickly turning into a liability for us now. yesterday's game was another prove that he can't start games these days.

fletcher, well nobody knows whether he can reach those heights again.
 
His improvement this season has been a joy to watch.
 
I think by virtue of the fact that he is a CM that is able to run around a bit, keep possession and is able to stay fit (unlike Anderson) has made a huge difference to our play. Having those characteristics doesn't all of a sudden make him world class or whatever, but he is very valuable to us given none of our other CM options offer what he offers.
 
kouroux said:
Being fit is important and it sounds dumb when you say it like that but for Tom it just adequately describes his situation
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I'm not really using it as a basis to judge Cleverley's qualities. Rather, it just accentuates the obvious attributes that we need in a midfielder yet only Cleverley seems to possess them.
 
Surprised that he hadn't got a mention.

A good energetic display, used the ball very effectively and as always, was constantly available for a pass. I simply love having him in our midfield.
 
He just makes the job so much easier for Carrick. His movement both on and off the ball makes him the perfect foil for Carrick.

Our team just works when he's in it, it doesn't have that unbalanced feel about it.
 
if wilshere did not sign an extension with arsenal and ran his contract down...and then pep came to utd....imagine what he would've done with carrick, clevz, wilshere midfield 3.
 
Guardiola would do wonderful things with those sorts of players. But Fergie does good stuff with them too, and Guardiola wouldn't be able to bring the best out of the likes of RVP, Vidic, and Valencia the way SAF has.

The solution is clear:

Sack Phelan hire Pep. :D
 
Did his job today well with Carrick again. The pairing really is coming along nicely and should be our preferred partnership in the center for me. I would rest both of them for the FA tie, but SAF comments on the united website seem to imply that Cleverley may play some part in that game as well
 
Dargonk said:
Did his job today well with Carrick again. The pairing really is coming along nicely and should be our preferred partnership in the center for me. I would rest both of them for the FA tie, but SAF comments on the united website seem to imply that Cleverley may play some part in that game as well
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Carrock needs the rest more than Clevz. We can't fukk around too much as it would be nice to add an FA Cup to our trophy haul.
 
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