Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

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Red Pavan said:
Hopefully there will come a day, where Anderson and Cleverley are both fit and can start in a midfield consisting of Carrick as well.

-----Carrick----

Clev ----- Ando

:drool:
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Well considering Anderson has only been injured in the last couple of weeks, Cleverley has been fit and Carrick has been available all season it would seem we have had that day and SAF has opted against it.

But I do agree I would like to see it myself.
 
Rozay said:
Fair enough if that's what you feel about Harrison, I'm not convinced myself. Easy for him to say Cleverley was a more talented kid than Ra'vel Morrison now, for instance, but if he had his head straight and was still at the club, I have my doubts.
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IIRC Eric said that whilst Morrison was still here.

Also, Cleverley might well turn out to be better at say 28, than Wilshere will be at 28. Some players are just late bloomers.
 
Cleverley wasn't kidding when he said he models himself on Xavi and Iniesta. Not the same play style, but so many similar qualities. Very much a 'continental' player - too good for England. I assume the mighty Gareth Barry will continue to start ahead of him for a long time.
 
Until we (England) get a coach who appreciates what players like Cleverley can do, we will always be behind. If we screw up this generation, then I'm done with watching England. Fed up with the ignorance, hoopla, and just downright stupidity from everyone involved (press,pundits,managers,players).
 
Plato said:
Until we (England) get a coach who appreciates what players like Cleverley can do, we will always be behind. If we screw up this generation, then I'm done with watching England. Fed up with the ignorance, hoopla, and just downright stupidity from everyone involved (press,pundits,managers).
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But he's not strong or tall, how can he play for England?

Seriously, in Tom and Wilshere, England have two very good young midfielders. And the team should build around them.
 
Crackers said:
I'd agree with you here.
He's fully capable of running the show and taking control "of a leaderless performance" as you put it. He's missing his finishing ability that was evident during his time at Wigan and Watford in particular.
That ability will come with time as you put it, but he needs to start taking more chances, and smashing the ball when he gets the chance.
I love how he's so particular about each of his movements and plays, but I personally think he needs to add a bit of Scholes-esque finishing to his game.
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Thank god. I feel like I've spent the past week or so on the Caf purely disagreeing with people and being disagreed with!

Scholes-esque might be a bit much to ask, there's few players in the world who can so consistently hit that Scholes pile-driver volley as cleanly as he could. But yes, he should at least work on bringing the confident finishing he showed at Wigan and Watford back into play.

But then the evidence from the Sunderland match is that that's exactly what he will quickly do if granted that elusive run of games.
 
Revan said:
But he's not strong or tall, how can he play for England?

Seriously, in Tom and Wilshere, England have two very good young midfielders. And the team should build around them.
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Based on our track record, I wouldn't be surprised if we messed up. It seems to be in our DNA now. I mean look at who we have.

Cleverley, Welbeck, Wilshire, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Jones, Smalling, McCechran (don't know how to spell his name) just to name a few. Yet I wouldn't be surprised to see someone like Jordan Henderson picked over cleverley. We have some very good talents and some very average talents. We always pander to the average ones. Always. Then we do this put all the best players in the starting XI in the most British way possible. Go route 1. Backs against the wall type defending. Use outdated 4-4-2. "Oi! Look at that team sheet! We're bound to win the lot!" Then after crashing out of competition, moan about the very things we were pushing for in the first place. It's the same shit year in and year out. The media has been reacting the same way for over 20 years! Shameful cycle.

I mean what numbnut puts Scholes on the left wing?!? That still rankles me today. Excuse me for the rant but this is why I struggle to support the team. All the bullshit that comes with it makes me wonder if I'm wasting my time.
 
Red Pavan said:
Hopefully there will come a day, where Anderson and Cleverley are both fit and can start in a midfield consisting of Carrick as well.

-----Carrick----

Clev ----- Ando

:drool:
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Where would you play Rooney?
 
Nope I really don't.

------Carrick-------
---Clev----Ando---
------Kagawa----
---RVP---Rooney--

The diamond is the only one which plays them in there best position, but it's narrow as feck and Fergie doesn't seem to trust it fully.

Is that what you meant? Or did you have Rooney on the left etc?

'Up top' means feck all.
 
Theon said:
Nope I really don't.

------Carrick-------
---Clev----Ando---
------Kagawa----
---RVP---Rooney--

The diamond is the only one which plays them in there best position, but it's narrow as feck and Fergie doesn't seem to trust it fully.

Is that what you meant? Or did you have Rooney on the left etc?

'Up top' means feck all.
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Sorry, I should of made my self clear.
The diamond is quite narrow, but I could see Kagawa up front with Van Persie and Rooney, more like a freer version of the diamond, Kagawa and Rooney providing width as needed on the left, and Rooney can do the same on the right with help from Cleverley etc.
But yeah , the diamond still is narrow as feck.
 
Theon said:
Nope I really don't.

------Carrick-------
---Clev----Ando---
------Kagawa----
---RVP---Rooney--

The diamond is the only one which plays them in there best position, but it's narrow as feck and Fergie doesn't seem to trust it fully.

Is that what you meant? Or did you have Rooney on the left etc?

'Up top' means feck all.
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Anderson Carrick Cleverley
Kagawa Rooney
RVP​

No wingers in that but plenty of available width. The idea that if Rooney is ever wide it'll mean he can't be central is nonsense. A good deal of his best football from the number 10 position this season has come from him and Cleverley linking up in the 'left wing' position.

And if for a PL game or two you wanted someone with a wider starting position, you could swap Kagawa for Valencia or Nani.
 
RVP can also migrate on the left/right wing from time to time and deliver some good crosses.The diamond formation doesn't mean the death of wing play and crossing.It'll just be different than having the usual two wingers
 
kouroux said:
RVP can also migrate on the left/right wing from time to time and deliver some good crosses.The diamond formation doesn't mean the death of wing play and crossing.It'll just be different than having the usual two wingers
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Totally agree with you here.
Sure it means that we're not using traditional wingers in this setup, but with Kagawa Rooney and Van Persie all able to go wide, and cross and pass well, it'll be different than using the normal set up but will still able to deliver some good play, given time of course.
 
We can retain width/crossing without wingers but I think we'll lose some penetration as they are able to force fullbacks back in a way that our other players can't. Although our other players are good passers/great at retaining possession, none of them carry the ball particularly well nor really beat people often with the exception of Ando on his day. I would say that there's been a lack of penetration in our game each time we've used the diamond but the diamond could be very useful in some games but in general I think if we can get the wingers on form, the formation we've seen against City and Sunderland could be our best and can be slightly altered to bring Kagawa in with one of the wingers on the other side.
 
I think he stays way too far from Carrick at times as Michael had the ball on many occurences and was looking for someone to pass it on.Cleverley is given the licence to roam forward indeed but at times he should support Carrick better, he does it but not often for my liking
 
Did well for me today, I usually agree in wanting to see more from him but our wingers were our problem today, not anyone playing in the centre of our midfield.
 
He was decent enough today. Not a bad performance, but I think he might have struggled more with Swansea's high pressure if it wasn't for Carrick having such a good game.
 
Not sure if it's tactical but I thought today and similarly in the Southampton game earlier on in the season he wasn't getting in good positions when we were defending. Seems to usually be too far ahead of Carrick and although it might be a good position for us in a counter, defensively it puts a lot of pressure on us. With 2 wingers and Rooney playing high then I think you need both midfielders to get in line.

He obviously can be more disciplined as he's shown against city/chelsea, but think its something he needs to work on. Wasn't a massive problem but it contributed to our struggles in the first half for me.

Offensively he's showing good stuff though and being more expressive which is good and he works well with Carrick.
 
It's something you see quite regularly with the more attacking of the midfield two. If you watch Wilshere he ends up anywhere that the attack allows. He rarely holds his position next to Arteta. Its quite common in the 4-2-3-1 of many teams actually. An extra body in attack when you struggle to break teams down. As for him not doing enough, all creative burden falls on the AM, ie Rooney, thats why the position is so important and can impact the team negatively on an off day with most of the play flowing through the player. If i understand the tactics of this formation, his job is mostly to pass quickly and accurately, keeping things moving for those ahead of him. I thought his passing was of a high level, he floated quite a few over the top and directly onto RVP's chest, as well as a notable through ball on the left for Young.
 
Difference with wilshere/arsenal though is that the third midfielder plays closer to Arteta than Rooney was to Carrick, RVP and Rooney were more like an orthodox front pair than Rooney playing as an a/m. Then if you add our two wingers playing really wide in contrast to Arsenals who play more narrow then there's a lot of space in our centre compared to Arsenals.

City would probably be a better example where Toure may push forward but he'll also get in alongside Barry/Garcia.
 
Played quite well imo. He was continuously making himself available for the ball and I can't recall a time where he needlessly surrendered possession. When people crave 'more' from Clev..what exactly is it that we want? It's blatantly obvious at this stage that he just is not the type of player who will contribute double figures in a season. If I had my way, I would implement the diamond. Always been a massive fan of Valencia but if a player is not performing, how can he merit a staying role continuously? Assuming Kagawa was available, I would love to see him in the #10 with Clev roaming behind. Quick, interchangeable football with Kagawa providing the goals
 
Gaeilge said:
Played quite well imo. He was continuously making himself available for the ball and I can't recall a time where he needlessly surrendered possession. When people crave 'more' from Clev..what exactly is it that we want? It's blatantly obvious at this stage that he just is not the type of player who will contribute double figures in a season. If I had my way, I would implement the diamond. Always been a massive fan of Valencia but if a player is not performing, how can he merit a staying role continuously? Assuming Kagawa was available, I would love to see him in the #10 with Clev roaming behind. Quick, interchangeable football with Kagawa providing the goals
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Someone who can boss/dominate/dictate/direct a game perhaps. Cleverley for me is decent squad player at this stage but not an automatic starter if we are going to be challenging in Europe. We need better quality in there and thats no fault of Cleverley as he is what he is. Its a measure of our lack of strength in the middle of the park that he or Anderson is in manys best 11 for us.
 
Gaeilge said:
Played quite well imo. He was continuously making himself available for the ball and I can't recall a time where he needlessly surrendered possession. When people crave 'more' from Clev..what exactly is it that we want? It's blatantly obvious at this stage that he just is not the type of player who will contribute double figures in a season. If I had my way, I would implement the diamond. Always been a massive fan of Valencia but if a player is not performing, how can he merit a staying role continuously? Assuming Kagawa was available, I would love to see him in the #10 with Clev roaming behind. Quick, interchangeable football with Kagawa providing the goals
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To play for 90 minutes? Help out the defence?
 
A very tidy display from Tom, but nothing more than that IMO. Himself and Carrick are a good fit and the partnership can only improve from here, as they play more and more together.
 
He could have easily played the 90 today, however, Fergie felt Scholes could possibly pull that moment of ginger magic. I am aware of of midfield inexplicities but with all due respect, Tom has finally played a few on trot and has been well above the average. Against Citeh he was fantastic at squashing Yaya and very few people can do that. Today, he continuously received the ball and made himself available. We were dominating possession against a side that are noted for keeping the ball for large quantities of the game today. Scroll back to the likes of Norwich where we were being hammered in midfield and there is no comparison
 
Tidy is the perfect way to describe his performance and him as a player.

I'm happy with his game. He just keeps the game flowing at a qiuck pace.

Simple but effective. He and Carrick gave the forwards ample opportunities to score. Another good performance.

Now to get Ando and Kagawa fit.

Then we will see how good this team is.
 
Gaeilge said:
He could have easily played the 90 today, however, Fergie felt Scholes could possibly pull that moment of ginger magic. I am aware of of midfield inexplicities but with all due respect, Tom has finally played a few on trot and has been well above the average. Against Citeh he was fantastic at squashing Yaya and very few people can do that. Today, he continuously received the ball and made himself available. We were dominating possession against a side that are noted for keeping the ball for large quantities of the game today. Scroll back to the likes of Norwich where we were being hammered in midfield and there is no comparison
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On the ball and in attack he played well and its encouraging how he's linking up with the forwards and Carrick.

But I think defensively he has lots to learn, we were quite open through the middle in the first half and I think that could have been helped if he got in deeper next to Carrick quicker and more often. Against City/Chelsea he did it very well so the discipline is there. It could have been tactical as I said earlier but I think its more his natural game whereby he doesn't quite get the balance between getting in to a good attacking/counter position and defensive position.
 
for a lot of people this lad is the key.

Gives our midfield sheer dynamism, and when he plays everyone seems to play a bit quicker and be sharper.
 
Ash_G said:
On the ball and in attack he played well and its encouraging how he's linking up with the forwards and Carrick.

But I think defensively he has lots to learn, we were quite open through the middle in the first half and I think that could have been helped if he got in deeper next to Carrick quicker and more often. Against City/Chelsea he did it very well so the discipline is there. It could have been tactical as I said earlier but I think its more his natural game whereby he doesn't quite get the balance between getting in to a good attacking/counter position and defensive position.
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Hard to tell. Against Yaya, he was used as a destroyer of sorts.

Personally, I do feel we tick much better with him. He is continuously utilizing pockets of space, arms flaring looking for the ball and his retention is very good. Does he light the game up beyond belief? No..but what English central midfielder does at this moment in time?
 
Gaeilge said:
Hard to tell. Against Yaya, he was used as a destroyer of sorts.

Personally, I do feel we tick much better with him. He is continuously utilizing pockets of space, arms flaring looking for the ball and his retention is very good. Does he light the game up beyond belief? No..but what English central midfielder does at this moment in time?
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Don't get me wrong I very much want him in the team and believe he and Carrick can become an excellent duo, but I just think this is the main weakness in his game as a centre mid, he has lots of great qualities that he brings that make a difference, this is one he needs to work on and I think a lot of it is getting the balance between his defensive duties and getting involved in the attack.
 
I like him, he always makes himself available for the ball and will always take responsibility for possession of it. And when he gets it, he'll pass it and then move into space to receive it again. Scholes was the master of doing that in his pomp. Very good player.
 
Ash_G said:
Don't get me wrong I very much want him in the team and believe he and Carrick can become an excellent duo, but I just think this is the main weakness in his game as a centre mid, he has lots of great qualities that he brings that make a difference, this is one he needs to work on and I think a lot of it is getting the balance between his defensive duties and getting involved in the attack.
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Absolutely man. Despite his age, he is taking baby steps still. We must remember that he has only recently begun to get the game time. His game will continuously improve while constantly being played. We are both in agreement that while he is far from the finished article, he has certainly added something great
 
Good game from him I thought. Him and Carrick controlled the game well, particularly in the second half. Quite like watching how when we have the ball he drifts about and makes himself available for the pass. Seems today he was told to get forward a bit more as well, as quite a few times Carrick and the defence were playing the ball around and he would slip behind the midfield and receive the ball in a good area where he could release one of the strikers.

Real shame that the strikers/wingers couldn't capitalise on the possession and good balls provided to them. Seems this season we are seeing different sections of the team click in particular games, but haven't really seen the team as a whole click as yet consistently.
 
Lawman said:
Someone who can boss/dominate/dictate/direct a game perhaps. Cleverley for me is decent squad player at this stage but not an automatic starter if we are going to be challenging in Europe. We need better quality in there and thats no fault of Cleverley as he is what he is. Its a measure of our lack of strength in the middle of the park that he or Anderson is in manys best 11 for us.
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at 23? christ!!
 
Of course he has more to show. He's far from the finished article!! Do we want to put trust in these young lads or not?

He had a good game. What frustrates me is when people like Lawman come to the conclusion he's a squad player when he's still developing. We don't know where he will end up, so why put a cap on it? Like having a decent game is a bad thing. You want him to show more, give him more games. We talk about perspective when it comes to how United has performed throughout the season but then when it comes to a young CM establishing himself in the team, perspective is thrown out the window?

I'm more concerned with our youngsters contribute to the team as a whole. They'll express more of their talents as they develop but the last thing we need is a talented player putting in frustrating displays through inconsistently contributing to the team.
 
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