I thought he had a pretty decent game and was at least looking to be positive on the ball and pass forwards which is something we've not seen from him this season. Looked rusty though, but thats to be expected considering he's been frozen out since early January.
Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances
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Just hope, he won't end like Liam Miller.
Just two years ago he was the hot shit in United and England. Hard to comprehend in what way things are going now.
Liam Miller's done well for himself it has to be said man. He's playin for some A-League team in Sydney & is living a great life in the sun. Unbelievable eh?!
Thats a great comparison you made though Van. Miller was deemed the new Keano at one point & Cleverly was deemed the new Scholesy aswell... How feckin wrong can folk get?
There were a couple of moments I'm sure he'll want to forget but overall I thought he was good. The energy and tempo he offers is something we badly lack when he isn't in the team.
No surprise if he's been made to watch videos of him every week for the last year.
He's a big upgrade on fellaini...our passing is way more fluid when Cleverley is in the team...he is suffering a crisis in confidence but when he plays with belief he fits in well to our systems...Van Gaal and his sexy football philosophy might see a valuable team player in him
I wanted to start the criticism in a mild manner and quite frankly I've seen far worse from him, so by his own class this season, today would be decent.
I don't really have big expectations for him anymore.
Thought he did well, clearly lacking confidence but that's something that takes time to get back. So glad to see him over Fellaini though.
Next season he should be 4th choice, at - very generous - best
Agreed but you need 4th choice midfielders in the modern game. And I, like most much prefer a youth product taking that spot up over a 27 million pound nothing player.
I want to see Cleverly play for Van Gaal before I throw the towel in.
Agree with that. He's never going to be first choice, but he can make it as a squad player. Today was pretty awful though.
I've thrown the towel.
People who back him don't tell me his best attribute. What does he bring to the table? He just shys away from most 50/50 balls, passes sidewards and hides behind the opposition.
He is 25. Even at squad player, I'd rather give Powell a go ahead of him.
People who back him don't tell me his best attribute. What does he bring to the table? He just shys away from most 50/50 balls, passes sidewards and hides behind the opposition.
He is 25. Even at squad player, I'd rather give Powell a go ahead of him.
I generally have no idea if some of you expect a player sidelined to just jump in to the first team and find their best form. Players who do that are very rare. He's been mis managed this season, I'll wait for Van Gaal to look at him before passing proper judgement. For all this sidewards passing talk, he actually played a number of forward balls today and looked to be positive running into advanced positions. Don't really understand the criticism myself.
Must be hard for our players to completely ignore everything they've been told in the last 9 months and play with proper attacking intent. You could see the longer the game went on the better we got as a team.
Patience required.
Must be hard for our players to completely ignore everything they've been told in the last 9 months and play with proper attacking intent. You could see the longer the game went on the better we got as a team.
Patience required.
He went in fully committed to a 50/50 ball today, won it and 2 passes later Rooney scored. Unfortunately you are like so many sheep and keep repeating drivel till it becomes fact despite it being mythical in natyre. His work off the ball today was good, so often he made channels for Kagawa to either run into or recieve passes from another player. Kagawa spent a decent amount of the game coming inside to pick up the ball and when things broke down Cleverlely was the player sliding across to try and cover his space and position himself to try and cover his own job. However, again you wont have seen any of that. The sheep in here only make a comment on Cleverley when he gets something wrong and spend their time watching for those errors, consequently you are all blind to the good work.
Case in point his contribution to Rooneys 2nd goal, which by the way helped the team relax more and get rid of some anxiety. But then again those things are missed or ignored.
I thought one of his best attributes today was that he fought for every ball. His tempo, movement and energy are crucial next to the less mobile (but still great when used correctly) Carrick.
Good game despite a couple of wobbles which I'll excuse an put down to rustiness.
Good game despite a couple of wobbles which I'll excuse an put down to rustiness.
He has been mismanaged as has the entire squad tbh.
He has hardly been played this season..and when played he has been poor. A lot has to do with confidence.
We were in total control of the match from the start...but you could see the Moyes cobwebs still be cleared from the minds.
Second half the entire team raised a gear or two...including Cleverly.
He has hardly been played this season..and when played he has been poor. A lot has to do with confidence.
We were in total control of the match from the start...but you could see the Moyes cobwebs still be cleared from the minds.
Second half the entire team raised a gear or two...including Cleverly.
absolutely awful today. i understand people wanting to foster some positivity lately but he's a passenger. no better than gibson,anderson and others who found their level elsewhere.
I think he was decent today so I want the critics unwarranted. There are many games when people can critic Tom, but today match wasn't one of them.
I think he was fair, but no more. Yes, he looked a little sharper but looked very much to be a player out of touch with his abilities. It's been so long since he's had courage and confidence I fear he's retooled himself into a shadow of his best self.
His touch was poor and he didn't really show that command of the middle to help out Carrick defensively. I was shocked he wasn't the one coming off for Mata.
I'm not ready to give up on him yet, but he's going to have to be built back up to be of any real use to the squad. Someone is going to have to rewire him and work him back into the side.
The gap between him and younger players like Powell is precariously small. Time is running out for him to have a future at the club.
His touch was poor and he didn't really show that command of the middle to help out Carrick defensively. I was shocked he wasn't the one coming off for Mata.
I'm not ready to give up on him yet, but he's going to have to be built back up to be of any real use to the squad. Someone is going to have to rewire him and work him back into the side.
The gap between him and younger players like Powell is precariously small. Time is running out for him to have a future at the club.
Gibson was much better than Cleverley. I think Powell has more promise. The only issue with selling him is that we don't have many competent midfielders in the squad. Let's get some decent personnel in before we offload him.
Agree.
Sounds like you let yourself get a little worked up on that one: point to a couple of anecdotes and call posters sheep.
It doesn't take the most astute observer to see that Cleverly has struggled for a while. It's not a tough argument to say that goes back to early in the '11-'12 season. He was brilliant as an attacking midfielder. However, that was a while ago and he hasn't come close to replicating that form. You can't stretch glimpses of his performance today far enough to say he's getting there. The poor sap has been in shambles a while now, and it is a legitimate question if he is ever going to return to his peak. It's that drop off--from rivaling Wilshire for torch bearer for the next generation of English talent to looking like a mid-table squad player--that gets him the attention. Now, the abuse is unacceptable, but the criticism is fair. Maybe that's along the lines of what you're trying to say.
Yes, there are plenty of group-think posts about the lad. That bit about sheep and such a paltry counterarguement is just throwing drivel at drivel.
It does sound incredibly harsh for people on here to be attacking him after a 4-0 win. But the truth of the matter is, that he's never really shown the same promise, since he picked up that ankle injury off Kevin Davies at Bolton two seasons ago and unfortunately, I don't think he ever will. The last 3 years, were the key years where he should of gradually showed the fulfillment of his earlier potential that many of us on here saw in him. And he simply hasn't done it, he's in some ways, gone backwards.
He simply isn't good enough to be playing as a first choice CM for Manchester United. I still think he can be a squad player though.
He simply isn't good enough to be playing as a first choice CM for Manchester United. I still think he can be a squad player though.
Well hopefully you have a go at the so called fans who refer to him as a coward, somehow I doubt you will though.
I though Clevs did OK, his confidence must be shot, but he was full of energy, running, he was often bursting into the box from midfield which must be a first this season. I thought he was looking to be positive hit a few tackles and I think Giggs did well, taking him off to get a good reception from the fans. he needs to feel a bit of love and hopefully we'll see the cleverly that that thug Davies crocked.
Covered by the unacceptable abuse bit. If you need more, yeah, it's too much to call him a coward. A young man in desperate need of confidence needs better support than that. Hopefully the match going support is more level headed about it than the Internet tough guys.
I learned the difference between cowardice and bravery in combat. I don't think that a player shirking away from the ball meets the threshold of cowardice. It frustrates me, and I wish his braver best-self more often. But no, he's not a coward as far as I know.
As for your doubts about who I'd have a go at, that struck me as terse and cynical. If that's not how you meant to come across, explain.
Don't think he was awful and he was really trying today, was a moment in the first where the ball looked to be going out and he slid to keep it in and play the ball to Rooney but unfortunately the ref blew. Looked to be progressive but as the game went on he began make mistakes passing wise and found himself getting dispossessed.
Think he may not be slightly short of the standard required but with a bit of luck he could do better, he slips when he shoots and air shots, Rooney does the same and it goes in. Fine margins
Think he may not be slightly short of the standard required but with a bit of luck he could do better, he slips when he shoots and air shots, Rooney does the same and it goes in. Fine margins
Head tells me he isn't good enough and never will be, heart says he's a utd lad and deserves one more season under a new manager......
My main problem with him is he keeps forgetting he is a CM. There was a moment when Carrick had the ball and all our attackers were further ahead. Cleverley was standing next to Kagawa on the left flank and just stood there waiting for Carrick to somehow magically just move the ball to him. Ultimately after about 5 seconds Kagawa went ahead and moved closer to Carrick to make himself available for a pass.
That really sums of Cleverley for me. He either hides behind opposition players or plays so far ahead that he cannot be considered a CM. It seems he likes playing further forward. Maybe a lower level club could accommodate him there, but he is not good enough to play as the AM here.
That really sums of Cleverley for me. He either hides behind opposition players or plays so far ahead that he cannot be considered a CM. It seems he likes playing further forward. Maybe a lower level club could accommodate him there, but he is not good enough to play as the AM here.
Another poor game from him yesterday . This lacking confidence excuse is running thin.
Cleverley has not played any football since the Liverpool game on March 16th, and even then he just played 15 mins. He is not going to look sharp all of a sudden now. I am sure he will prove his worth if we get LvG, if he doesn't then he should join Martinez who rates him highly and might be capable to do something with him.
Here's still hoping he will improve next year!
Here's still hoping he will improve next year!
The energy to runaway from the ball & hide... Sadly, he just runs around & does feck all positive with the ball!
5 tackles ( 3 successful, 2 failed ), 2 fouls, 2 times fouled, 51/54 passes completed, most of them sideways. No interceptions, no clearances ( understandable, Norwich didn't really attack today ), no chances created, no blocks ( understandable again ), no shots. Stats taken from fourfourtwo.
Anybody got any idea where to look for distance covered or is it not measured in EPL ?
Anybody got any idea where to look for distance covered or is it not measured in EPL ?
I didn't see him hiding. He was getting stuck in, fighting for everything and helping us move the ball quickly. The shackles were off Carrick so he was the one making most of the forward passes admittedly but apart from a couple of moments to forget, Tom generally played well.
Why waste your time hopin man - because he came through the ranks?
That seems to be the only reason i can see, as many United folk are completely blind-sided with Cleverly. Thats not a good enough reason to keep him & makes a mockery of the slaggin Fellaini & Anderson has received on here in recent times.
He's 25 in August & has shown nothin deserving of still being at United. Liam Miller was a better player (and he was a disaster) & probably still is at Sydney in the A-League!
Cleverley had a good game yesterday, no doubt.
No surprise though that the thread is full of imbeciles continuing to berate him for non existent reasons. The "Cleverley is a coward" line is particularly amusing and unfortunately has stuck.
No surprise though that the thread is full of imbeciles continuing to berate him for non existent reasons. The "Cleverley is a coward" line is particularly amusing and unfortunately has stuck.
He's so average it's unbelievable. There was a period of 10 minutes yesterday in which I correctly predicted exactly what he was going to do each time he received the ball. "Pass to Carrick", "Pass back to Evra? Yup" etc.
He looked average against Norwich. He'll look out of his depth against anyone from Tottenham upwards these days.
He's not good enough.
He looked average against Norwich. He'll look out of his depth against anyone from Tottenham upwards these days.
He's not good enough.
Stackbis right. Hes a scapehoat on here.
He was fine. Made a couple of poor mistakes, but only a couple. Not surprising with so little playing time.
The passing in the team as whole was much more fluid and cleverley played a big part in that. One problem with cleverley is carrick, carrick played really well yesterday but is to often too immobile and cleverley ends up running around twice add much as he needs to and he loses his position.
The one main issue I have with cleverley v is tackling. He just can't tackle! I'd love to see his tackling stats. He's a type of midfielder that presses well, but you need to be able to tackle to make that pressing useful.
Good squad player. Should not get rid at all
He was fine. Made a couple of poor mistakes, but only a couple. Not surprising with so little playing time.
The passing in the team as whole was much more fluid and cleverley played a big part in that. One problem with cleverley is carrick, carrick played really well yesterday but is to often too immobile and cleverley ends up running around twice add much as he needs to and he loses his position.
The one main issue I have with cleverley v is tackling. He just can't tackle! I'd love to see his tackling stats. He's a type of midfielder that presses well, but you need to be able to tackle to make that pressing useful.
Good squad player. Should not get rid at all
He's a decent homegrown player and you wonder if he'd do better at another club given that's he's always going to be on the fringes....I think he can fulfill a good role as backup to the first team
This season, like every other member of the squad bar De Gea, Rooney and Welbeck, has been poor for Tom.
I wouldn't look too much into yesterday - he'd not played for such a long time he was rusty and lacking in confidence
What does it say that Giggs preferred Cleverley to Fletcher and Fellaini
Ps - it's the fashion on here to get stuck into Cleverley and worship Kagawa's every action
This season, like every other member of the squad bar De Gea, Rooney and Welbeck, has been poor for Tom.
I wouldn't look too much into yesterday - he'd not played for such a long time he was rusty and lacking in confidence
What does it say that Giggs preferred Cleverley to Fletcher and Fellaini
Ps - it's the fashion on here to get stuck into Cleverley and worship Kagawa's every action
It says nothing really, it was a team selection and so on. Cleverley hasn't played for a long time, is a homegrown, it was obvious that Welbeck and Tom would start yesterday.
You could make same point asking 'Young was preferred to Nani as a sub' or 'Valencia was preferred to Mata' and it doesn't sound as cool anymore, does it ?
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