Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

Status
Not open for further replies.
Lawman said:
The boy is not good enough doesn't matter his age move him on. You can normally tell a players level by the age of 23 and Tom is way short of United class of old. Barry is a better player and that says it all.
Click to expand...

I never suggested he was good enough, however you're last sentence of "Barry is a better player and that says it all" has no relevance at all.

The bold point is interesting, if you agree that not all player's abilities can be told by 23, it makes you're Barry comment all the more misinformed.
 
Bojan11 said:
Oh god the 27-29 peak quote.
I could name 100s of midfielders, who peaked before that age. Or you could see they were going to be world class. He's not good enough.
Click to expand...

27-29 quote? It's not a ficticious number, it's used/quoted for a reason. Naming 100 midfielders would mean nothing in relevance to Cleverley so I don't understand your point, go and watch Drogba at 23 and tell me you could always tell he was going to go on to become what he is.
 
Jaybezia said:
27-29 quote? It's not a ficticious number, it's used/quoted for a reason. Naming 100 midfielders would mean nothing in relevance to Cleverley so I don't understand your point, go and watch Drogba at 23 and tell me you could always tell he was going to go on to become what he is.
Click to expand...

Drogba started his football career late. But you could see at 25 when he was at Marseille he would be class.

Cleverley is approaching 25. Can you say the same about him? If you not he is good enough. Then why do you want to loan him out.
 
Bojan11 said:
Drogba started his football career late. But you could see at 25 when he was at Marseille he would be class.

Cleverley is approaching 25. Can you say the same about him? If you not he is good enough. Then why do you want to loan him out.
Click to expand...

:lol: You're clearing talking about what you don't know, he was signed to a club at 20/21, hardly "late", and at 25 you could see he would be class? scoring 19 in 35 in Ligue 1 mean's he was going to be class? He had his doubters, trust me.

I can't say that Cleverley will go on to be a WC midfielder, but I have every reason to believe his ceiling is high enough he can become a good squad member, why loan him out? As I've said previously, loans are for experience, regardless of age, he may be 25 but in terms of playing time he may as well be 20.

However, let's do it your way, sell him for what? A million if your lucky? And get those tiny wages of the books? It's not worth it, he won't stop us buying a CM either so it's pointless, however giving him a regular spot in a team (Somewhere else) may see him get some form as he did before he came back to us after going (Don't quote me) Watford (?) from the Championship, he set the PL alight for his first 10 games and got that injury
 
Set the prem alight? No he didn't.

We beat an Arsenal team out of form. First game of that season against West Brom was hardly convincing I recall. We beat Spurs who had a makeshift midfield of Kranjcar and Livermore. Don't kid yourself that he set the prem alight.

So we should keep him because according to you he's not on big wages and won't cost much. Great logic. I'd rather give his spot to someone in the reserves.

Cleverley thought he made it after those few games where he was decent. Made T23 into a brand and of course dated a TOWIE bimbo


And you clearly know nothing about Drogba. He was 25 at Marseille scored 5 goals in the champions league. Tore Liverpool a new one in the UEFA cup and scored another 6 in that. Yes, nobody could see anything special there. Jose just spent £24m for the sake of it.
 
He was OK yesterday in a position that wasn't his own. Can't see why he deserves such criticism. He was better than Fellaini.
 
Gerald G said:
He was OK yesterday in a position that wasn't his own. Can't see why he deserves such criticism. He was better than Fellaini.
Click to expand...

Because he did nothing. Again. He runs up and down the pitch(at no great pace). He makes simple passes. He occasionally skies a shot. He occasionally gets in the way of another player. We could get Steve Sidwell and he would fulfill the exact same role, and probably do it better.
 
To be fair to Cleverley I can't understand why anyone would even think of asking him to play as he did last night. He's not my favourite player in the world but he didn't embarrass himself. He just played like Tom Cleverley in a position I've never seen him play before looking every bit like a player low on confidence being asked inexplicably to play in a position he was woefully unfamiliar with. If you play in your favourite position and look crap - I'd be happy to criticise. Play out of position and likely to the best standards you can - I think he manager takes blame not the player.

That performance through the middle would probably be one of his best. Not compared to any reasonable standards of expectation such as we might have for Carrick or a midfielder that costs £30m (ahem!) but for Cleverley he did alright. His problem is where he spent most of the time on the pitch.
 
Bojan11 said:
Set the prem alight? No he didn't.

We beat an Arsenal team out of form. First game of that season against West Brom was hardly convincing I recall. We beat Spurs who had a makeshift midfield of Kranjcar and Livermore. Don't kid yourself that he set the prem alight.

So we should keep him because according to you he's not on big wages and won't cost much. Great logic. I'd rather give his spot to someone in the reserves.

Cleverley thought he made it after those few games where he was decent. Made T23 into a brand and of course dated a TOWIE bimbo


And you clearly know nothing about Drogba. He was 25 at Marseille scored 5 goals in the champions league. Tore Liverpool a new one in the UEFA cup and scored another 6 in that. Yes, nobody could see anything special there. Jose just spent £24m for the sake of it.
Click to expand...
Oh great let's go back to criticizing Clevz persoanl life. And you clearly know nothing about Cleverley as TC23 isn't a brand he made because he thought he made it big. It was a special collaboration with charity. There is no clothing brand.

How is who he date of any relevance either? It has nothing to do with anything. Giggs fecked his sister-in-law. Should we all just randomly throw that into posts to do with Giggs.

Next time try to come up some better criticism than Cleverley's personal life.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
One of only two United players who stood up to be counted and put in a performance last night. Three, if you forgive DDG his shoddy kicking.

Yet - because he's Tom Cleverley - he's getting unpleasant personal abuse. Keep it classy, redcafe.
Click to expand...
Thankyou.

It is just the same lines after every match too. While go into another player's thread and all the excuses of played out of position, can't blame him as everyones poor and it all Moyes' fault are thrown around. Cleverley though? He is just a coward with his imaginary clothing brand and fit girlfriend.
 
Am I the only one who could see him playing a deeper role?

p.s and doing quite well.
 
JaffyJoe said:
Am I the only one who could see him playing a deeper role?

p.s and doing quite well.
Click to expand...

Probably. Though I'd say he can be more ambitious with his passing. I don't mean Hollywood balls. Just some first time passes forward to the strikers while on the turn like Scholes used to do when he received passes from his defenders. It doesn't help that he doesn't always appear comfortable and composed with ball at his feet when under pressure though.
 
NinjaZombie said:
Probably. Though I'd say he can be more ambitious with his passing. I don't mean Hollywood balls. Just some first time passes forward to the strikers while on the turn like Scholes used to do when he received passes from his defenders. It doesn't help that he doesn't always appear comfortable and composed with ball at his feet when under pressure though.
Click to expand...

His confidence has decreased, he's so anxious when he plays. But I agree with the passing, he always goes for the safe option, there is a lack of penetration. That might just be the way he plays, if so a deep midfield role would suit him.
 
How do you define him? He doesn't break play up, he doesn't assist, he doesn't score, he doesn't take set pieces, he just plays a tidy, very safe, very simple game, not enough imo. As a youth and reserve player he was tidy but what made him stand out to some degree was that he had a knack of timing runs into the box and looking a goal threat, that is not part of his game now so I don't know what to make of him. As things stand, he is a somewhat adequate squad rotation option for resting important players, on relatively low wages, that is the best justification I can give him at present.
 
mattsville said:
How do you define him? He doesn't break play up, he doesn't assist, he doesn't score, he doesn't take set pieces, he just plays a tidy, very safe, very simple game, not enough imo. As a youth and reserve player he was tidy but what made him stand out to some degree was that he had a knack of timing runs into the box and looking a goal threat, that is not part of his game now so I don't know what to make of him. As things stand, he is a somewhat adequate squad rotation option for resting important players, on relatively low wages, that is the best justification I can give him at present.
Click to expand...

His aggression seems to have drifted away. I suspect that he has been trying to make himself more well rounded, working on his weaknesses, positioning and he's lost some of his focus for exploiting his strengths. He seems to be over-thinking and it's cost him his aggressive instincts.
 
mattsville said:
How do you define him?
Click to expand...

Useless. Or at least 'pointless', which is pretty much the same thing.

This isn't me trying to bash him, that is my honest answer. He has very little use, and basically goes on to the pitch and hides, hoping he can pick up his 6 out of 10 match rating for not doing anything 'wrong'.
 
I have little faith in him anymore but I would interested to see how he would play behind Mata and Kagawa. They should be able to link up pretty well together.
 
Rozay said:
Useless. Or at least 'pointless', which is pretty much the same thing.

This isn't me trying to bash him, that is my honest answer. He has very little use, and basically goes on to the pitch and hides, hoping he can pick up his 6 out of 10 match rating for not doing anything 'wrong'.
Click to expand...

Useless or pointless might be true in a 3 man midfield. He is downright detrimental to our play in a 2 man midfield, at least this season. In some matches, you'd struggle to find something he's done right. His non-existence hurts us a lot defensively and doesn't help us offensively (obviously).

There is also an element of him not working out in Moyes' team. He wasn't a world class CM under SAF, but he was a LOT better than what we've seen of him this season. I have no idea why that would be the case since there hasn't been a massive tactical change to his role in the team. Maybe it's a confidence issue.
 
I think that's a bit above his level but we have seen at times that he has the talent to play for a club like Everton.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
He'll be excellent at Everton. Martinez has gotten the best out of him in the past.
Click to expand...

Agree with this. If people think the performances he's put in this season are reflective of his true talent they're badly mistaken. Everyone is playing on low confidence right now. Once Martinez puts his arm round Cleverley you'll see a huge difference. Aint saying he'll become a world beater but he'll certainly look more like the player he was last season.
 
khoazany said:
Remember some folks said the same thing about Gibson...
Click to expand...
I suppose it depends on whether Gareth Barry stays there. I know he's a player Martinez knows and likes but he's not as good as McCarthy and I don't think he's as good as Barry. He'd be a decent addition to their squad though and under a coach like Martinez who seems to be getting more out of everyone then maybe he could evolve in the player he's shown glimpses of becoming.
 
RORY65 said:
I suppose it depends on whether Gareth Barry stays there. I know he's a player Martinez knows and likes but he's not as good as McCarthy and I don't think he's as good as Barry. He'd be a decent addition to their squad though and under a coach like Martinez who seems to be getting more out of everyone then maybe he could evolve in the player he's shown glimpses of becoming.
Click to expand...
The same Times piece reporting that Barry is interested in the MLS.
 
Much like Welbeck he needs to step down to find his level/comfort zone.
 
Not sure how i feel about this, he's looked shocking this season and i wouldn't want him near the club based on that, however his possession based style might suit with us, as he won't need to do much considering McCarthy has the tenacity to be the more defensive and Barkley has the technicality and creativeness to be the offensive whilst he could keep it tidy and calm. Plus Gibson looked poor at United before looking good for us so it might be a case of being the right club. We need players to fill the squad anyway so i don't think this would be a case of him or Barry, i think we would try for both.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.