Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

[Barney]

Lineker just said a 5 year deal

 

[Eric'sCollar]

We need to upgrade but I still have time for Cleverley, I think he can do a job in our squad. Needs to improve big time though but I'm happy to see him fill the squad. Still need HG players, need a large squad for the Europa League, it makes sense as he will be very cheap to tie up.

 

[Rowem]

Papers reporting we are offering him a "massive" new deal. Why are we so concerned about how we are viewed from the outside? Player gets criticised, next minute we are offering him a new deal just to prove the point that we don't care what the media say. Nobody can say he's progressed enough to earn any new deal.

Do you honestly believe that we are offering him a contract extension in response to recent criticism of him?

 

[Barney]

Do you honestly believe that we are offering him a contract extension in response to recent criticism of him?

Aye, that'd be ridiculous. The only thing that might be changed in response to the criticism is the timing of the announcement.

 

[Rednotdead]

Aye, that'd be ridiculous. The only thing that might be changed in response to the criticism is the timing of the announcement.

He's been offered a new contract at the (by our standards) paltry amount of £60k a week because he'll be no more than a squad player, a replacement for situations of multiple injuries or players needing a rest. He'll never be a regular starter.

 

[devilish]

We seem to have a fetishness for average midfielders.

 

[Wumminator]

I like Tom. I think he'd shine in a confident team.

 

[Plugsy]

Why is a club considered "stupid" for tying players down to long-term deals. Surely it can't be as stupid as anyone who believes that if a player signs a contract he cannot be sold during the period of the deal.

Whatever we may think of Cleverley's abilities, he'll have a value in the open market that's only enhanced by the length of contract he may well now have. As should be unspeakably obvious to anyone who's paid any attention to anything that's ever happened in football over the last 20 odd years. Obviously the number that haven't is higher than I thought.

 

[Carl]

Hope the rumours are true. He's nowhere near as bad as the media and some of you lot like to make out.

 

[Carl]

I like Tom. I think he'd shine in a confident team.

This.

I don't think he'll ever hit the heights we all hoped he would but I think he'll be a more than capable squad player once he's playing in and around better midfield players. Also, his confidence is on the floor.

 

[OneUnited24]

Hope the rumours are true. He's nowhere near as bad as the media and some of you lot like to make out.

This.

I actually feel for Cleverley (or as much as i can for a millionaire), hes being asked to fill a role in the team that highlights his limitations as a player. I personally think in a midfield 3 or in a more attacking position we would really see the best of him but right now we are adamant to use him and Carrick as deep lying playmakers and that simply is not his role

 

[Getsme]

I just hope Moyes sees him as part of the solution to our midfield problems and not the answer to them. I’m not a big fan of Cleverly, I find him very frustrating, he seems to be a very safe player who shies away from responsibility, he can go hiding when things aren’t going well and that’s the last thing we need in that area of the pitch.
He has the ability, he’s shown it in the past that he can play at a high level, but he’s at age now were we shouldn’t be talking about potential, but about him establishing himself in the team. If he has signed a 5 year contract he will be 30 by the time it runs out, I just hope he finds some kind of consistency and makes the few steps up to the level he needs to be at.

 

[Eric'sCollar]

I have always had a soft spot for Cleverley but his form this season has been well below par. However, the shit that has been thrown at him from all corners, I feel even stronger for him and want him to succeed. It's something United fans have done so well over the years, backing those who get thrown under the bus by the press, Becks, Rooney, Ronaldo etc, Liverpool have done it with Suarez. Now Cleverley isn't going to be as big as any of them but I think we should stick by him, he is a United player and he deserves our support.

 

[Sixpence]

Do you honestly believe that we are offering him a contract extension in response to recent criticism of him?

I'm honestly not sure any more. We made a point of giving Moyes 6 years purely as a message to the media when 3 would have sufficed.

 

[marjen]

He's being made a scapegoat when in reality he's been far from our worst player.

He's a passenger, that much is true, but what was Henderson a year ago?

 

[Mister Ed]

He's being made a scapegoat when in reality he's been far from our worst player.

He's a passenger, that much is true, but what was Henderson a year ago?

I'am sorry but if you say he is far from being our worst player this season, who'do you reckon is even worse than Cleverley ?

The only player I can think of is Valencia.

I'agree he is being made a scapegoat and that shit like the petition wanting him out of the WC squad was pretty phatetic. But it doesn't come out of nowhere, Tom Cleverley has been massively disappointing this season, he has been one of the most frustrating players to watch and a big part of the criticism he is getting right now has been his own fault.

Saying he is just a passenger and putting him in some kind of victum role is really a little bit too easy on his part. Just because he is english and comes from the academy doesn't mean he needs to be cut more slack.

 

[Mister Ed]

I have always had a soft spot for Cleverley but his form this season has been well below par. However, the shit that has been thrown at him from all corners, I feel even stronger for him and want him to succeed. It's something United fans have done so well over the years, backing those who get thrown under the bus by the press, Becks, Rooney, Ronaldo etc, Liverpool have done it with Suarez. Now Cleverley isn't going to be as big as any of them but I think we should stick by him, he is a United player and he deserves our support.

The reason why those players were being criticised by the media was not because of a lack of footballing qualities but because they had a shitty attitude. Suarez last year was criticised for being a real cnut and was seen as an uncontrolable liability for Liverpool. Liverpool in turn were criticised for sticking by him so much and accepting his behavior (biting Ivanovic, the whole racism thing with Evra). They were criticised for taking up the role of a media victim and alot of people felt that a player like Suarez was actually bigger than Liverpool as football club. Ofcourse nobody ever criticised him for a lack of footballing ability, because that was also the only reason Liverpool ever stuck by him and defended him that much, because they know how important he was for them as a footballer, that is why they copped with his behavior and all the negative media exposure it provoked. The same goes for the other players you mentioned, Becks, Ronaldo and definitley Rooney. Their footballing ability has never been the issue, it was their behavior and their attitude that was criticised and the club stuck by those players because they knew how important they were as footballers.

So please don't turn this around by saying that they became better players because the club stood by them, them not being good players never was an issue, and it exactly because they were such good players that the club always stood by them in the first place. It is a completley different situation with Cleverley who is criticised for not being good enough to play at this club (and in extension the english national team). His attitude has never really been the issue, it is his ability, and the club is actually being criticsed but more than that being laughed at for sticking by a player who clearley isn't good enough to warrant such loyalty.

it are completley different situations; The difference being that supporting somebody like Suarez or Ronaldo can win you the trust and respect of those players and them being such talented footballers, the club benefits greatly if they repay that respect (which Liverpool is now experiencing). Sticking by a players who isn't good enough to play for you will never benefit the club because the player doesn't have the talent and skill to ever repay that kind of loyalty.

Another thing you seem to really have a soft spot for Cleverley and you seem pretty eager to defend him on several occassions, based on the fact that he is a United player and deserves your support. Yet when I read your comments on the Fellaini forum you seem alot less eager to cut him some slack, overly criticsing him (atleast if you compare it with your stance on Cleverley). Isn't fellaini also a United player that should deserve your support no matter what, he even warrant it more than Cleverley because his performances have been far superior and he has had a more valid reason than Cleverley for all the sub par performances he has put in this season. It just seems to me like you are really favoring Cleverley and are defending and excusing him far more because he is English and is an academy player. I find that a bit hypocrite, the nationality a player has, wheter he comes from the own youth or not or how much his price tag has been, is really quite irrelevant in all this. The player can't help all those things and once he is as the club those things also don't matter anymore because none of those will mean they put in better performances. The only criterium a player should be judged at in my opnion are his performances and wheter he warrants his paycheck and wheter he deserves to be a player at this club. Looking at they way you keep defending Cleverley and the way you criticise Fellaini I find your view on those players really biased, favoring one over the other for aspects that really don't matter on the pitch. Btw not an attack on you personally, it is something that I see with alot of posters on here and that bothers me, I just decided to say it to you because your last couple of posts in the Cleverley and Fellaini drew my attention to it.

 

[Eric'sCollar]

The reason why those players were being criticised by the media was not because of a lack of footballing qualities but because they had a shitty attitude. Suarez last year was criticised for being a real cnut and was seen as an uncontrolable liability for Liverpool. Liverpool in turn were criticised for sticking by him so much and accepting his behavior (biting Ivanovic, the whole racism thing with Evra). They were criticised for taking up the role of a media victim and alot of people felt that a player like Suarez was actually bigger than Liverpool as football club. Ofcourse nobody ever criticised him for a lack of footballing ability, because that was also the only reason Liverpool ever stuck by him and defended him that much, because they know how important he was for them as a footballer, that is why they copped with his behavior and all the negative media exposure it provoked. The same goes for the other players you mentioned, Becks, Ronaldo and definitley Rooney. Their footballing ability has never been the issue, it was their behavior and their attitude that was criticised and the club stuck by those players because they knew how important they were as footballers.

I never said Cleverley was going to turn it around and perform like them, I am making the point that everyone is attacking our player and we should be in his corner.

So please don't turn this around by saying that they became better players because the club stood by them, them not being good players never was an issue, and it exactly because they were such good players that the club always stood by them in the first place. It is a completley different situation with Cleverley who is criticised for not being good enough to play at this club (and in extension the english national team). His attitude has never really been the issue, it is his ability, and the club is actually being criticsed but more than that being laughed at for sticking by a player who clearley isn't good enough to warrant such loyalty.

As above, it's not about ability or attitude.

Another thing you seem to really have a soft spot for Cleverley and you seem pretty eager to defend him on several occassions, based on the fact that he is a United player and deserves your support. Yet when I read your comments on the Fellaini forum you seem alot less eager to cut him some slack, overly criticsing him (atleast if you compare it with your stance on Cleverley). Isn't fellaini also a United player that should deserve your support no matter what, he even warrant it more than Cleverley because his performances have been far superior and he has had a more valid reason than Cleverley for all the sub par performances he has put in this season. It just seems to me like you are really favoring Cleverley and are defending and excusing him far more because he is English and is an academy player. I find that a bit hypocrite, the nationality a player has, wheter he comes from the own youth or not or how much his price tag has been, is really quite irrelevant in all this. The player can't help all those things and once he is as the club those things also don't matter anymore because none of those will mean they put in better performances. The only criterium a player should be judged at in my opnion are his performances and wheter he warrants his paycheck and wheter he deserves to be a player at this club. Looking at they way you keep defending Cleverley and the way you criticise Fellaini I find your view on those players really biased, favoring one over the other for aspects that really don't matter on the pitch. Btw not an attack on you personally, it is something that I see with alot of posters on here and that bothers me, I just decided to say it to you because your last couple of posts in the Cleverley and Fellaini drew my attention to it.

On my criticism of Fellaini, it has nothing to do with my support of him. It's my opinion of him as a player. Yes, I have a soft spot for Cleverley, do I think he is going to make a great United player? No. Both deserve equal support, my criticism of Fellaini and show of support isn't hypocritical, it's two different issues. If you want to connect the two, feel free but it's not the case.

Both have my support, I don't think either will make it at United.in the future but both deserve the backing of the fans, especially Cleverley at the moment as he is copping it from everywhere.

 

[Red Shorts]

He can remain as a squad player, sure. But if it's our resolution for our CM Problems then it's a pretty shit decision. We're all expecting a big name CM in the summer, but we've been waiting 7 years for one, so I am preparing myself to be stuck again with an even older Carrick with Cleverley, Jones and Fellaini to rotate. Maybe he will get a good CM in, but there's such a large chance it will be someone people aren't expecting.

 

[bosnian_red]

We've already got too many squad players there. We can't just buy 2 top class midfielders there and keep the ones we already have. We'll have Carrick, Fellaini, Fletcher, Cleverley, Anderson (lets be honest, Fiorentina isn't buying him), Giggs (probably) and occasionally Jones for those 2 positions. All ranging from 'meh' to shit, so we definitely need to move some of them on whether they like it or not. Tell Giggsy to retire, sell Anderson, use Jones only as a defender and we'll still have 6 players once we add in the 2 quality midfielders. Sure Cleverley is homegrown but if I'm being honest, he'll just be taking up space in the squad. I don't think we'll sell Fletcher after he's been here his whole career, can be a decent player still and had his illness problems, so he'll stay. Fellaini we only just bought so we won't sell him, and he might turn into a good squad player. Carrick is past it but won't be going anywhere, and is still capable of being a good squad player for us, and is our best passer.

That leaves Cleverley who really doesn't add much to the team and there won't even be space for him as a squad player once we add in the 2 new players. He seems like a nice guy, but he just isn't cut out to be a United player, both ability wise and mentally, if what people say on social media really impacts him that much. No shame in moving to a mid table team like Gibson did.

 

[devilish]

We've already got too many squad players there. We can't just buy 2 top class midfielders there and keep the ones we already have. We'll have Carrick, Fellaini, Fletcher, Cleverley, Anderson (lets be honest, Fiorentina isn't buying him), Giggs (probably) and occasionally Jones for those 2 positions. All ranging from 'meh' to shit, so we definitely need to move some of them on whether they like it or not. Tell Giggsy to retire, sell Anderson, use Jones only as a defender and we'll still have 6 players once we add in the 2 quality midfielders. Sure Cleverley is homegrown but if I'm being honest, he'll just be taking up space in the squad. I don't think we'll sell Fletcher after he's been here his whole career, can be a decent player still and had his illness problems, so he'll stay. Fellaini we only just bought so we won't sell him, and he might turn into a good squad player. Carrick is past it but won't be going anywhere, and is still capable of being a good squad player for us, and is our best passer.

That leaves Cleverley who really doesn't add much to the team and there won't even be space for him as a squad player once we add in the 2 new players. He seems like a nice guy, but he just isn't cut out to be a United player, both ability wise and mentally, if what people say on social media really impacts him that much. No shame in moving to a mid table team like Gibson did.

Giggs and Ando will leave. The latter may leave with mutual consent if needed. However I agree with you that we're showing too much respect towards players who shouldn't be here in the first place.

 

[Comsmit]

Personally I don't feel he has earned a new deal. To me it is evidence of simply rewarding someone for being a product of the academy structure, not for what he does on the pitch. I expect a massive improvement from him if the club are showing this kind of faith in his abilities.

 

[finneh]

Why is a club considered "stupid" for tying players down to long-term deals. Surely it can't be as stupid as anyone who believes that if a player signs a contract he cannot be sold during the period of the deal.

Whatever we may think of Cleverley's abilities, he'll have a value in the open market that's only enhanced by the length of contract he may well now have. As should be unspeakably obvious to anyone who's paid any attention to anything that's ever happened in football over the last 20 odd years. Obviously the number that haven't is higher than I thought.

Disagree in terms of his value. Many clubs that would be interested in matching wages of c.30k and paying £5-10m would not be interested in matching £60k and paying the same.

Tying him to a 60k deal instantly eliminates a large % of would be buyers.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Disagree in terms of his value. Many clubs that would be interested in matching wages of c.30k and paying £5-10m would not be interested in matching £60k and paying the same.

Tying him to a 60k deal instantly eliminates a large % of would be buyers.

Agreed, have these figures been confirmed (The £60k per week) or is it just speculation at the moment?

Also, if Moyes has Fellaini, Carrick and Fletcher and intends on buying 2 "world class" or at least better than Cleverley's, what I don't understand is where they'll all fit in a 2/3 man midfield, 2 top class signings will want to start (with Carrick as 3rd man when we play a 3 man midfield), further to that, Fletcher/Fellaini can cover for Carrick, whereas Kagawa, Mata etc can cover for the further minded midfield players (especially if we play with two CM + AM), so a £60k per week midfielder at 24, where does he fit into this?

 

[lynchie]

Decent player, home-grown, committed to the club, low wages. Yeah, we're crazy to hold onto him.

 

[Niall]

Important Update

Further to the megathreads announcement, this megathread has been renamed and should be confined to discussing Tom Cleverley's performances this season. For any other discussions about Tom Cleverley (e.g. his new contract), please bump or create separate threads.

Thanks!

 

[Buchan]

I fancy Cleverley to have a blinder tonight. Big night for him. He, more often than not, plays well in a midfield three. Always looks exposed in a two. Looking forward to the 'pass and move' with himself, Rooney, Mata & Welbeck.

 

[The Red Thinker]

I said this in the matchday thread, but I think Clevs might stay right today. Mata was obviously excellent behind Rooney against West Ham, so I think Moysiola might do it.

Clev has played wide right for both Watford and Wigan. He wasn't half bad at it either. Has a descent cross on him and his weaker positional sense in central midfield won't affect him wide right.

 

[Crackers]

Tonight is a chance for him to prove himself. He'll have Carrick and Fellaini to play behind him and will be able to link up well with the others.
Let's see how he does with his opportunity.

 

[golden_blunder]

Tom to do a 'Phil' tonight on Toure

Fingers crossed

 

[#07]

I said this in the matchday thread, but I think Clevs might stay right today. Mata was obviously excellent behind Rooney against West Ham, so I think Moysiola might do it.

Clev has played wide right for both Watford and Wigan. He wasn't half bad at it either. Has a descent cross on him and his weaker positional sense in central midfield won't affect him wide right.

I don't think he'll stay right but I think he'll be expected to fill in on the right when Mata drifts inside. You can imagine it looking like 4-2-3-1 when we attack with Clev pushing wide, and 4-3-3 when we defend with Cleverley dropping back into the middle to be the extra man.

 

[Eric'sCollar]

C'mon Cleverley! Hope he has a good one.

 

[Lu Tze]

Good luck Clev. Hope he changes my opinion of him.

 

[Amar__]

It's his first start in a month, we should have at least gave him some playing time vs West Ham after we when 2-0 up.

 

[Ballache]

This is your chance to shut the haters up Tom...no pressure.

 

[bosnian_red]

Hope he comes off at half. Scared to receive the pass, then gives it away instantly. Just not good enough for this level.

 

[Amar__]

He was much better than Carrick and Fellaini in this half, and probably covered double than those two, he doesn't deserve criticism, not tonight. He actually had few nice passes and moves.

 

[kouroux]

He was good in the first half, actually a little surprised by him.

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

Hope he comes off at half. Scared to receive the pass, then gives it away instantly. Just not good enough for this level.

He was good in the first half, actually a little surprised by him.

Heh

 

[Rowem]

Thought this was a good opportunity for him tonight. In his more natural role in a midfield 3, less defensive responsibility, a license to get forward and combine with Mata and Welbeck, I was expecting a bright performance.

So far though fairly disappointing. He's adding nothing and has no character.