He does do the simple things well, but hasn't everyone who's set the standard for what we should expect? Scholes, Butt, Beckham, Carrick, even Keane who is remembered mainly for his aggression. They could all do what Cleverley does. The reason myself and many others single him out is because he can't do a great deal else. People highlight what Cleverley actually does bring to the table when in reality we should be expecting a lot more from him, especially since we play with 2 in midfield.
Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances
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He does do the simple things well, but hasn't everyone who's set the standard for what we should expect? Scholes, Butt, Beckham, Carrick, even Keane who is remembered mainly for his aggression. They could all do what Cleverley does. The reason myself and many others single him out is because he can't do a great deal else. People highlight what Cleverley actually does bring to the table when in reality we should be expecting a lot more from him, especially since we play with 2 in midfield.
His shooting in that video
Would be excellent on a rugby pitch.
I fail to see any reason why we would so desperately want that sort of performance from Cleverley. That video is the bare minimum I expect from our players: passing the ball, which is pretty much what I took from it. He did very little out of the ordinary, and it was a standard performance from a player.
Back to the shooting, christ what was he thinking.
The fact he was picked just highlights the lack of options we had in midfield aside from Carrick. Who else was there? Scholes and Giggs, both pushing 40, Anderson (!) and a raw centre half in Jones, who was in fact picked for many of the big games. Compare that to 2008 when we had Carrick, a much younger Scholes, Hargreaves, an up and coming Fletcher, an Anderson who was the next big thing (in the figurative sense) and a younger Giggs.
The petition business is sadly reflective of the nastiness surrounding the national team but, in reality, he is not good enough for England (even with the paucity of alternatives) and certainly not good enough for United. Making a few short, obvious passes does not equate to playing tiki taka.
His shooting in that video
He simply cannot keep a ball down. It is a mystery to me. Why has no-one in our coaching staff ever addressed the basic mechanics of his shot...they're horrible!
Good answer from Hodgson to what was an awkward question in regards to Cleverley. I've seen a few daft posts insinuating that this shouldn't bother him due to the money he makes. Weird people. Cleverley could have a whole host of problems that we don't know about, and being used as some kind laughing stock in front of the whole nation is probably going to make many a person feel a bit shit. I agree with those above, however, I don't think it should have been reported to such an extent. It's just silly.
To put it simply if anyone thinks Cleverly is good enough to be a United first team regular they need their head examined. Even Fletcher, a man ravaged by injury and illness who had not played for over a year has been better than Cleverly. He has let us down alot of the time and his 72% passing percentage against Olympiakos showed how poor he has been, he wasn't doing anything flashy at all yet continually made simple errors, was caught in possesion and made weak and ineffective tackles. Hes not good enough guys the proof is all there.
Nobody thinks that. Cleverley can still do a job as a squad player here, he has a future at the club.
Didnt accuse anyone of that was just stating my opinion
I watched him closely in the Olympiakos game because my mates have been giving him a lot of stick. He literally goes into hiding in that match, instead of going into positions to get the ball from defence he hides behind a couple of their players.... all the time. Seriously lacking confidence and I cant see it coming back at United with everyone going on about how bad he is.
His shooting in that video
I know, lol, but at least he was going for goal. Now, he plays like a boy playing among men.
I had high hopes for young Tom but he plays it too safe. He doesn't have the drive to achieve greatness, probably due to his realization that he's decent but will never be great.
A good squad man to have around, but I definitely don't see him progressing much from his barely acceptable form.
A good squad man to have around, but I definitely don't see him progressing much from his barely acceptable form.
I don't think those of us who think Cleverley can still merit himself as a player for this team are saying that he's a definite starter. He looks like a good squad player to have who can fill in/rotate with a better midfielder. When he isn't this poor, he can do a job, like Kieran Richardson or Darron Gibson did. I don't think any of us expect him to become a first-team quality player, though.
TC23 hasn't lived up to his potential, which should be a given since he's English, but he can still be bit part player. I don't think he's been used properly and is forced to sit back further than he should, but he should be no where near our first choice team. Carrick probably shouldn't be either if we hope to compete against the big teams. They both have limitations that are very difficult to overcome with a single partner. Putting them together only makes it worse. If Moyes had the revolutionary idea of playing a midfield 3, TC23's limitations would be covered up better.
Umm, aren't they baiting Ozil right now over in Germany?
I have my opinions on his future at United but I am going to support him 100%. Some of the 'support' he gets from his own fans, inculding United fans is utter shite.
It's fine to think he isn't a good player but while he is a United player, he should have our support.
It's fine to think he isn't a good player but while he is a United player, he should have our support.
I've been a big critic of Cleverley this year, but this weird revisionist line about him not being much good a few years back is bizarre - there's even a post a few pages back comparing his contribution to Macheda's. I suggest going back to page 30 of this thread, and reading up until page 53, when he gets injured in the Bolton game. The buzz surrounding him is substantial, and it's hardly from a few delusional fans - there are even a few articles in there, touting his great potential.
Clearly, something has got lost somewhere along the way, but I see Cleverley as more of a symptom of our current malaise than a cause. Put him next to a dynamic midfield partner, and I sense we'd see the Cleverley of early 2011-2012. At the very least, we shouldn't be writing him off yet.
Clearly, something has got lost somewhere along the way, but I see Cleverley as more of a symptom of our current malaise than a cause. Put him next to a dynamic midfield partner, and I sense we'd see the Cleverley of early 2011-2012. At the very least, we shouldn't be writing him off yet.
People on here blaming it on 'bitter' opposition fans, yet our own fans have been giving him shit all season on twitter, to the point that he deleted his twitter account. Cannot see why people would want to do something that can damage the confidence of one of our own players. I don't rate Fellaini at all, and never thought he was good enough for United, but I'd never send him shit like what Cleverley has received on twitter. I still hope he plays well. As for that stupid petition, what did people think it'd actually achieve? United fans should be ashamed of themselves if they took any part in it.
They are pretty much more of England than United fans. Agree with what you've said.
Hasn't been the same since the injury. There's always the chance he could turn it around.
The petition is by idiots for idiots.
The crap he was getting on Twitter that lead to him closing his account wasn't. I'm pretty sure he said in that interview a couple of weeks back that it hurts more when it comes from your own fans or something along those lines. People don't have to rate him but he's been here since a kid and genuinely loves the club. Might be low on confidence but doesn't ever lack effort. Our fans sending him abuse is quite frankly pathetic.
Judging by what i have read on here I would not be surprised if it was started by a Utd fan.
The petition is really sad and a sign for the times. 15k morons? All I can say is their must be an awful lot of inbreeding in that family. When Cleverly was at his best, he seemed higher up the pitch to me. It's just we have (or he has) pushed him back and it's just not very effective in the team that we have. Quick interchanges are almost worthless and he needs to be more advanced.
We have some promising midfielders breaking through and with it likely we'll be buying in that area, Cleverly has to make the most of his opportunities.
We have some promising midfielders breaking through and with it likely we'll be buying in that area, Cleverly has to make the most of his opportunities.
Well said.
Some of the 'fans' on this thread could learn a thing or two from Martinez.
The England fans who booed him are beyond pathetic.
i wonder if this plays a part in the players' psychology when it comes time to perform for england. because in those crucial moments, england just seems to crumble and the vultures can't wait to dish out some vicious words. then you see reasoning such as "well they make a shitload of money, they can handle it" but how does money by default give you a thicker skin to such things? It's like people forget these guys are humans. Like honestly sometimes the criticisms sounds like the word I'll hear my fellow engineers use when they're talking about a robot or to the computer "stupid piece of shit, why dont you what you're feckin' supposed to do!"
to hear/see that kind of abuse from your own fans, especially a player who loves the club must hurt. IF I was in his shoes, I might have closed my twitter account too because it's not worth it to me at least to deal with that kind of crap day in and day out.
Like that from Martinez. Don't want to see anyone thrown under the bus like this, it's just sad.
You can dislike players and question why they play but to personally attack them and single them out directly, it's very low and very sad.
For me if you have a problem with the inclusion of a player it's down to the manager who is training and selecting him. I've no real desire to personally attack Ashley Young, but I question the logic of the manager who picks him when he plays.
You can dislike players and question why they play but to personally attack them and single them out directly, it's very low and very sad.
For me if you have a problem with the inclusion of a player it's down to the manager who is training and selecting him. I've no real desire to personally attack Ashley Young, but I question the logic of the manager who picks him when he plays.
TBF that game was hardly an accurate barometer of cleverlys talent or lack there of. It must be incredibly hard to perform to the best of your abilities when your whole team including many seasoned proven players is playing like total dogshit, never mind being attacked personally and professionally. I think it would be safe to assume that his confidence is at rock bottom. Dont get me wrong, I'll be suprised if ends up a first team regular for the long haul but to me he is clearly a better player than he has shown this season.
Absolutely. That stat about 72% pass completion shows how far below his own standards he was in that game. He's usually a player who finds his team mate with 8 or 9 passes out of 10, even when's not putting in one of his better performances.
He's good enough as a backup and he may yet step up his game but its more likely that his spot will go to someone else coming through like Powell.
It unfortunately does look like his first season was just down to that early enthusiasm youngsters have
It unfortunately does look like his first season was just down to that early enthusiasm youngsters have
I've championed Cleverley ever since he burst on the scene. That performance when we beat Arsenal 8-2 was outstanding. He's fallen well back since then. Is it confidence, systems, others dropping off around him, did he get carried away with his own early promise. His demis is all very "English" and I sincerley hope he gets his mojo back. He could be a top player
Martinez is so very correct when he says England is the only place something like this would happen.
Cleverley will never be a world beater and everyone knows that. But he can still be a good squad player for us. I'm very cautious to write off players who come through our youth system at such a young age because they have something that other players who join the club will never have, and that is a true emotional attachment to the club. This emotional attachment and passion cannot be replaced and can massively increase the performance level of a player.
Cleverley will never be a world beater and everyone knows that. But he can still be a good squad player for us. I'm very cautious to write off players who come through our youth system at such a young age because they have something that other players who join the club will never have, and that is a true emotional attachment to the club. This emotional attachment and passion cannot be replaced and can massively increase the performance level of a player.
I think that is definitely part of it. the fear is failure is so large that they generally play within themselves and cautiously. Until the press fully support the team, and respect that you cannot always win we will never get anywhere.
He has had worse games than the olympiakos game though that's the awful thing. He was genuinely horrific against Sunderland in the league cup, one of the worst performances ive seem from a United player and I mean that. He genuinely did nothing right that night, shocking.
it seems to affect the managers too. I've never seen fabio capello so animated before
Papers reporting we are offering him a "massive" new deal. Why are we so concerned about how we are viewed from the outside? Player gets criticised, next minute we are offering him a new deal just to prove the point that we don't care what the media say. Nobody can say he's progressed enough to earn any new deal.
Lineker just said a 5 year deal
<popcorn gif>
I refuse to believe the club is that stupid. Media bollocks.
If this season has taught us anything, it's that the club actually can be really stupid when it wants to be. I wouldn't rule it out just yet.
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