Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

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Mauzindark said:
:lol: WTF is this.. I don't even.. How about 40 ?

1 Toni Kroos
2 Ilkay Gundogan
3 Aaron Ramsey
4 Thiago Alcantara
5 Javi Martinez
6 Granit Xhaka
7 Marco Verratti
8 Kevin Strootman
9 Jack Wilshere
10 Koke Resureccion
11 Ander Herrera
12 Ander Iturraspe
13 Asier Illaramendi
14 Mateo Kovacic
15 Sven Bender
16 Miralem Pjanic
17 Jordan Henderson
18 Adrien Rabiot
19 Moussa Dembele
20 Morgan Schneiderlin
21 Nemanja Matic
22 Radja Naingollan
23 Ivan Rakitic
24 James McCarthy
25 Mario Suarez
26 Oliver Torres
27 Cesc Fabregas
28 Sergio Busquets
29 Emre Can
30 Saul Niguez
31 Sergi Roberto
32 Lars Bender
33 Nuri Sahin
34 Roman Neustadter
35 Luis Gustavo
36 Christoph Kramer
37 Maxime Gonalons
38 Daley Blind
39 Clement Grenier
40 Lerin Duarte
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:lol:
 
Watching Cleverley reminds me of how I used to play when I was stuck in a midfield 3 when we started playing 11 a side as 14 year olds. I was a complete liability and I quickly realised it, so to avoid being found out with the ball in my feet, I deliberately placed myself behind the opposition or in the rare occasion I presented myself for a pass I made sure I was in a position where the opposition wouldnt close me down quickly, usually for a sideways or backwards pass.

This is exactly how Cleverley plays. Hes afraid of making himself available for a forward pass. Against fecking Olympiakos, a team that sold their best player to Fulham.
 
So Tom Cleverley is now league 1 standard? Gotcha:wenger:

This thread is filled with fecking idiots.

I kept a close eye on him in the first half, knowing he was going to be the scapegoat. There wasn't much he could have done yesterday with Vidic, Carrick and Ferdinand taking their own sweet time playing the passes. To add to that Carrick was so deep most of the time that Cleverley was very isolated in midfield.
 
Very few of our players played well tonight yet you've all predictably flocked to the Cleverley thread. There were poor performances from more than half the team.
akash02 said:
So Tom Cleverley is now league 1 standard? Gotcha:wenger:

This thread is filled with fecking idiots.

I kept a close eye on him in the first half, knowing he was going to be the scapegoat. There wasn't much he could have done yesterday with Vidic, Carrick and Ferdinand taking their own sweet time playing the passes. To add to that Carrick was so deep most of the time that Cleverley was very isolated in midfield.
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The opinions in here are beyond ridiculous. Theres some desire to blame him for everything as long as he's on the pitch.
 
akash02 said:
So Tom Cleverley is now league 1 standard? Gotcha:wenger:

This thread is filled with fecking idiots.

I kept a close eye on him in the first half, knowing he was going to be the scapegoat. There wasn't much he could have done yesterday with Vidic, Carrick and Ferdinand taking their own sweet time playing the passes. To add to that Carrick was so deep most of the time that Cleverley was very isolated in midfield.
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Wasn't much he could have done? How about trying not to give the ball away in dangerous areas? Or actually contribute to United as a team? Not saying he is league 1 but there are much better midfielders playing in teams below us in the premiership than him. Not his fault but simply not good enough for where we think we should be and he isn't a kid so he's not going to get much better.
 
akash02 said:
So Tom Cleverley is now league 1 standard? Gotcha:wenger:

This thread is filled with fecking idiots.

I kept a close eye on him in the first half, knowing he was going to be the scapegoat. There wasn't much he could have done yesterday with Vidic, Carrick and Ferdinand taking their own sweet time playing the passes. To add to that Carrick was so deep most of the time that Cleverley was very isolated in midfield.
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He could have gotten closer to them for starters and tried to build things up from the back, he could have gotten closer to where the ball was instead of running into blind alleys.
 
Lawman said:
Wasn't much he could have done? How about trying not to give the ball away in dangerous areas? Or actually contribute to United as a team? Not saying he is league 1 but there are much better midfielders playing in teams below us in the premiership than him. Not his fault but simply not good enough for where we think we should be and he isn't a kid so he's not going to get much better.
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I am not saying he was good but some of the criticism is well over the top. He was nowhere near as bad some make him out to be and that goes for the entire season. I don't think he's first team material but I do think he can become a good squad player for us under the right manager.
 
kouroux said:
He could have gotten closer to them for starters and tried to build things up from the back, he could have gotten closer to where the ball was instead of running into blind alleys.
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He did drop deep but when you are receiving the ball in that position under pressure there's not much he can do. Had the passing been quicker he would have had more time to get the ball and then pass it forward.
 
I remember being abused and laughed off the caf around October for being the first to suggest his sale.

He's a West Ham player. At best. He's no better than Mark Noble.
 
akash02 said:
He did drop deep but when you are receiving the ball in that position under pressure there's not much he can do. Had the passing been quicker he would have had more time to get the ball and then pass it forward.
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Ok I agree with you on this, however there were several instance where Cleverley was positioned in a position more advanced than Rooney. I maintain that he doesn't how to position himself, when to ask for the ball, how to create his space.
 
akash02 said:
I am not saying he was good but some of the criticism is well over the top. He was nowhere near as bad some make him out to be and that goes for the entire season. I don't think he's first team material but I do think he can become a good squad player for us under the right manager.
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Personally I'd prefer to buy 2 new midfielders and have squad players like Carrick and Fellaini. Cleverley just doesn't contribute to attack or defence in the main. I'd rather have Jones play centre mid than TC23.
 
kouroux said:
Ok I agree with you on this, however there were several instance where Cleverley was positioned in a position more advanced than Rooney. I maintain that he doesn't how to position himself, when to ask for the ball, how to create his space.
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I think that's more a case of the environment surrounding the club this season than his own failures. His biggest strength as a player is his movement and how he keeps the ball moving without taking too many touches. It's not a broad skill set which is I don't think he should be an outright starter but as a squad player he's more than good enough.
 
kouroux said:
Ok I agree with you on this, however there were several instance where Cleverley was positioned in a position more advanced than Rooney. I maintain that he doesn't how to position himself, when to ask for the ball, how to create his space.
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I agree with this. Which is annoying because a couple of seasons ago he was making a short run/move to make a yard of space before he received the ball. It looked like he was going to have the intelligence and know how to get on the ball when he wants to. But thats been missing completely for a long time.

akash02 said:
I think that's more a case of the environment surrounding the club this season than his own failures. His biggest strength as a player is his movement and how he keeps the ball moving without taking too many touches. It's not a broad skill set which is I don't think he should be an outright starter but as a squad player he's more than good enough.
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Sounds like a fairweather footballer. Team is playing amazing? He'll look pretty good.
 
Mauzindark said:
:lol: WTF is this.. I don't even.. How about 40 ?

1 Toni Kroos
2 Ilkay Gundogan
3 Aaron Ramsey
4 Thiago Alcantara
5 Javi Martinez
6 Granit Xhaka
7 Marco Verratti
8 Kevin Strootman
9 Jack Wilshere
10 Koke Resureccion
11 Ander Herrera
12 Ander Iturraspe
13 Asier Illaramendi
14 Mateo Kovacic
15 Sven Bender
16 Miralem Pjanic
17 Jordan Henderson
18 Adrien Rabiot
19 Moussa Dembele
20 Morgan Schneiderlin
21 Nemanja Matic
22 Radja Naingollan
23 Ivan Rakitic
24 James McCarthy
25 Mario Suarez
26 Oliver Torres
27 Cesc Fabregas
28 Sergio Busquets
29 Emre Can
30 Saul Niguez
31 Sergi Roberto
32 Lars Bender
33 Nuri Sahin
34 Roman Neustadter
35 Luis Gustavo
36 Christoph Kramer
37 Maxime Gonalons
38 Daley Blind
39 Clement Grenier
40 Lerin Duarte
Click to expand...

Brilliant :lol::lol::lol::lol:

41. Paulinho
42. Sebastian Rode
43. Tom Huddlestone
44. Sandro
45. Rafinha Alcantara
46. Alex Song
47. Ramires
48. Axel Witsel
49. Stefan Reinartz
50. Leon Goretzka
51. Maximilian Arnold

How many can we get?
 
He's a bit of an enigma... Absolutely guaranteed never to score if given a shooting chance, yet scored freely on loan (I know he was playing at a lower level, but the part where you kick the ball at a good speed towards a part of the goal which the keeper doesn't have covered is the same in the Championship as it is in the Premier League). Links up attack well in something akin to a no10 role for England, but can't play an attacking pass to save his life for us.

Maybe if we played him in a more advance role he'd suddenly start passig and shooting properly, but even if that is the case it's of little use seeing as he's about 6th in line for that position.

One thing he definitely ain't is a midfielder, so sadly I can't see any future for him here.
 
I think he's ok if the teams playing well.

I'd keep him as 4th or 5th choice cover.

It's when we're dreadful that he's this bad.
 
He's fine as a squad option but should never have been relied on as first choice or have affected how we move in the transfer window. We should have signed someone to replace him in the lineup well before this summer with Fellaini, which hasnt worked out either. But Tom can still do a job covering another player in less important games when the team is playing quite well.
 
Mauzindark said:
:lol: WTF is this.. I don't even.. How about 40 ?

1 Toni Kroos
2 Ilkay Gundogan
3 Aaron Ramsey
4 Thiago Alcantara
5 Javi Martinez
6 Granit Xhaka
7 Marco Verratti
8 Kevin Strootman
9 Jack Wilshere
10 Koke Resureccion
11 Ander Herrera
12 Ander Iturraspe
13 Asier Illaramendi
14 Mateo Kovacic
15 Sven Bender
16 Miralem Pjanic
17 Jordan Henderson
18 Adrien Rabiot
19 Moussa Dembele
20 Morgan Schneiderlin
21 Nemanja Matic
22 Radja Naingollan
23 Ivan Rakitic
24 James McCarthy
25 Mario Suarez
26 Oliver Torres
27 Cesc Fabregas
28 Sergio Busquets
29 Emre Can
30 Saul Niguez
31 Sergi Roberto
32 Lars Bender
33 Nuri Sahin
34 Roman Neustadter
35 Luis Gustavo
36 Christoph Kramer
37 Maxime Gonalons
38 Daley Blind
39 Clement Grenier
40 Lerin Duarte
Click to expand...
Thank you
 
Escobar said:
He's just not good enough on a consistent level but it's unlikely he will be sold
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Same with his manager Moyes... simply not good enough for United yet desperately hoping for a fluke win with a shambolic lineup in Cleverley and Young!
 
Ekeke said:
I agree with this. Which is annoying because a couple of seasons ago he was making a short run/move to make a yard of space before he received the ball. It looked like he was going to have the intelligence and know how to get on the ball when he wants to. But thats been missing completely for a long time.
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He has sadly regressed, he used to even hit the target from long range shots and be more positive with his passing. Everything he used to do, he does it badly now.
 
If Cleverley was half as good as he thinks he is, then he would still be twice as good as he actually is....

He has such a strange technique. Everything and i repeat EVERYTHING he does with a football is with the inside of his right foot. - Shooting, Passing, even lumping a clearence is done with the inside of that right peg.

Someone mentioned ealrier how he hides behind the opponent rather than making himself available, i to have noticed this.
I no that nobody is playing well for us at the moment but he is genuinley the worst of a bad bunch.
 
He was really awful last night. Not the kind of performance youd want to be putting in so soon after talking to the papers about how unfair it is that you have been made a scapegoat. He was regularly letting easy passes go astray under no pressure at all. The word "confidence" gets bandied about a lot and I dont think it applies to everyone but I think it does to him, he is a player that looks completely terrified and its rendered him unable to do even simple things properly.
 
Him and Moyes are perfect for each other. Each time you think they've made progress, the next game quashes the idea of upward trajectory.

For those that watched him yesterday as closely as you say you did - how can you say any player could not have done more - including Tom. Just look at him prior to the losing the 2nd goal. He made no effort to at least close the space between him and Campbell. He didn't need to go tackle Campbell but, he could have been a good 10-15 yards closer to put pressure on him.

The thing is you will see that same exact pattern of play from him, when we lose the ball or he loses the ball higher up the pitch, he sees the play is covered possibly so he won't cover the large amount of space between him and the ball. He is a CM for god sake, it's his job to cover those gaps and he can't be bothered to do it more often than not. The only time he ever tries to sprint back is when the play isn't covered - that's not good enough.

This is all forgetting how he hardly showed for the ball yesterday when for some stupid reason we've got Carrick playing at the 18 yard box or Rio/Vida being back there passing it between themselves.

How many times do we see cases where he just isn't strong enough in the tackle and lets people by him. He can't be a player that just keeps ticking things over when we are in game where we need more. We have no room for a player that can only contribute when we are playing well, especially in CM.
 
The main problem with him is that he sometimes has games like yesterday where the game is totally running past him where he always seems to be in the wrong position and doing the wrong moves which imo is a sign for a lack of a football brain. He is also 24 by now if you compare him to Kroos or Thiago who are both about the same age the difference becomes quite glaring and we need to realize that Cleverley is not top level player material and probably never will be. He could still be a good squad player for us for a lot of years but he is definitely not the player you want to start in your midfield if you trying to build a team that can compete at the highest level.
 
To be fair, he had a couple of good moments on the ball where he kept in tight spaces but he's just so average. He should be behind Jones and Fellaini in the pecking order and that's not me complimenting those two.
 
prateik said:
Been watching him since his loan spell at Watford. Saw a lot of them just for him.
He was very good and I expected him to be with us the next season.
He has earned his spot in the squad and there is a reason to be excited. He is very good.

https://www.redcafe.net/f40/tom-cleverley-235078/
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Rado_N said:
He's played considerably more than that. It's not just United's first team who play competitive matches, he's had very good loan spells and his talent and potential are quite obvious.
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evra said:
The best football we've played this year was with Anderson and Cleverley.
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Ah, when everyone loved him. Someone said he was the next Scholes, but I couldn't find it. The level of delusion about our young players on here is frightening sometimes.

This is what is happening with Rafael and Smalling at the moment. They are being overrated on here despite their obvious defensive liabilities.
 
Anderson18 said:
Brilliant :lol::lol::lol::lol:

41. Paulinho
42. Sebastian Rode
43. Tom Huddlestone
44. Sandro
45. Rafinha Alcantara
46. Alex Song
47. Ramires
48. Axel Witsel
49. Stefan Reinartz
50. Leon Goretzka
51. Maximilian Arnold

How many can we get?
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Steve sidwell
Ki
De Guzman
Brunt
Yacob
Medel
Larsson
Noble
Gibson
McCarthy
Schneiderlin
Davis
Ward prowse

Could go on all day
 
Reapersoul20 said:
Ah, when everyone loved him. Someone said he was the next Scholes, but I couldn't find it. The level of delusion about our young players on here is frightening sometimes.

This is what is happening with Rafael and Smalling at the moment. They are being overrated on here despite their obvious defensive liabilities.
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He was playing ahead of the two midfielders at Watford from what I remember. And he was very good.
He hasn't progressed enough.. but as a young midfielder coming through, there was plenty to be excited about.
 
Reapersoul20 said:
Ah, when everyone loved him. Someone said he was the next Scholes, but I couldn't find it. The level of delusion about our young players on here is frightening sometimes.

This is what is happening with Rafael and Smalling at the moment. They are being overrated on here despite their obvious defensive liabilities.
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You do realise that not developing as hoped doesn't mean that the potential was never there, right?
 
Rado_N said:
You do realise that not developing as hoped doesn't mean that the potential was never there, right?
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Yes, but I think he's insinuating that he was massively overrated by some on here, in his younger days. He had potential, but never the level that some suggested.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Yes, but I think he's insinuating that he was massively overrated by some on here, in his younger days. He had potential, but never the level that some suggested.
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Yet he describes a few posts saying that he's had good loan spells and that his talent and potential are obvious as 'frighteningly delusional'.

If you're going to dig up old posts to try and embarrass people you need to do a better job that than.
 
Rado_N said:
You do realise that not developing as hoped doesn't mean that the potential was never there, right?
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Robbie Boy said:
Yes, but I think he's insinuating that he was massively overrated by some on here, in his younger days. He had potential, but never the level that some suggested.
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I think Frank Lampard is a great example to use here...He didn't have the "potential" or natural "talent"

However, he worked his bollix off and got to wear he is by sheer determination and hard work on the training ground.

I don't know if Cleverley is scared, not arsed or just doesn't have that streak in him to make him a top player but, he clearly had something not so long ago
 
Frank Lampard's hard work led to him being a specialist. A specialist in hard work and striking the ball or scoring goals.

I'm not sure what hard work can lead to for Tom Cleverley, but I'm sure its not that. I guess you could argue he's already a specialist in sideways passing.

I think Jordan Henderson is the one that can look to Frank Lampard. There's no doubt that Henderson is a trier who works a lot harder
 
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