Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter Bebe
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It's a crisis of self belief imo. Moyes and his staff should definitely focus on improving it like Sir Alex and co did with Evans.
Am I doing it right?
Am I doing it right?
He did warn us that he'd said it before and he'd say it again, to be fair.
The match thread wont mention Cleverley till he makes a mistake and after that it will be full of people complaining about him.
That's because he'll be hiding for most of the match, and when he finally gets the ball he'll either screw up or pass 5 yards (probably backwards).
Lampard had too. Weird post.
Yes I have touched on this before. He is a better player than he has shown himself to be lately. His awful performances are in part down to him having absolutely no confidence and the criticism is clearly getting to him. He's no world beater, but a better player than the dross he has been serving up recently.
He probably won't, local lad etc he's probably willing to stay on the bench and fight for a place - I doubt he's in a rush to leave. I do agree, though - he'd look much better in the Liverpool side (Henderson has been very good this year and I think that is his own doing, so Cleverley still has a lot to prove) or in the Arsenal side in a midfield three, but whether he'll turn out good enough to be a starter when we are at the level we want to be (winning titles again) remains to be seen. Really hope he gets it together, it's clear that his lack of confidence and the players/system around him are the biggest problem at the minute. He seems like a good guy, too. We should definitely not write him off.
The way he played vs Villa away for example, is what I believe he could do on the regular.
Why is it a weird post?
Technically he can mix it up with our best players, it's just that he very rarely shows it. I'm not sure whether its the system or himself having a confidence crisis that's led to him hiding in his shell, but he's certainly better than he shows. In fact, its probably both.
Not your post. The poster who compared Lampard at a similar age to Cleverley. Lampard was a far better, more established player at the same age.
Iirc that game Rooney played in a midfield three which made the difference. We were more compact because of it and Cleverley could pass and move at will. No offence to Carrick because he must be told to play that way but he plays quite deep lately, almost like a 3rd CB at times, and when Rooney plays high it leaves the midfield wide open and Cleverley is always going to be ineffective when we play like that.
Oh, okay. I thought maybe you weren't happy with my "I couldn't say for sure about Lampard", which was really just because I wasn't too clued up about Lampard back then.
A fair bit of that is down to Clev though. He's often not in a good position to help start attacks from deep. When the defenders have the ball Clev is rarely coming deep to pick it up and that causes a situation where Carrick picks it up, Clev isn't nearby and so it's very hard to progress with the ball. It's not all Clev's fault as the defenders could push up/use the ball better as could Carrick at times but it would certainly help if Clev's positioning was better.
In general I think we need to do better as a team, the defenders as I said need to push up more and in some cases like smalling, need to use the ball a lot better and on the other side we need Rooney to drop off and play that link role, but certainly in the centre imo anyway Clev could do a lot more to make himself available to help us build from deep.
Yes we played with a midfield 3 in that match and it coincided with Cleverley having by far his best game of the season.
A good read. No doubt it will not change the opinion of the majority of detractors though
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/tom-cleverley-interview-scapegoat-midfielder-3132365
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/tom-cleverley-interview-scapegoat-midfielder-3132365
Explains a lot.
True, if he can recapture the form he has shown in glimpses in days gone by.
He still offers little. He's a limited player. Energetic and honest, that's about it.
From the article
He is not even going to offer anything as a squad player I fear.He needs a new club and he needs to drop a level and play regularly and rebuild his career.Shame because we were mostly very excited about this lad but his career is currently in freefall.
I think it also goes to dispel the notion that criticising our players on the internet is no big deal, as they're not reading it. When there's a tirade of personal abuse and victimisation amongst the fans towards a particular player, then said player will feel it and it will negatively effect their confidence and performances.
So, Moyes said he wants more goals from midfield, which isn't the job of our holding midfielders according to this. I'm confused.
If that's true, he'd be leaving the pitch in every La Liga game he plays with a standing ovation from everyone in the stadium.
Some of our fans should be ashamed for the shit they've thrown at our players on social media. Of course it affects their confidence. Apparently Carrick himself took a lot in that twitter Q&A as well.
Yeah people might have their opinions but what good does it do to fling criticism at our players on twitter?
It's pathetic behaviour tbh.
That's right. I mean it's one thing to slate them on a forum, but directly abusing them on their social media acc is something else.
I'm not to sure about that, Henderson excels in our system because he provides the energy and running power to supplement Gerrard and Lucas lack of mobility. I wouldn't describe powerful running as one of Cleverley strengths. In our system would play the same role Allen has played which is mostly as the holding midfielder with Henderson and Coutinho ahead of him. Problem is he doesn't show for the ball like Allen does, neither is he as good defensively, Allen before he got injured last season at one stage had the most tackles in the league.
Hendersons role compliments his best qualities, him and Cleverley are different players in terms of the things they excel at, so i don't think its as simple as saying he would excel in our formation simply because we are in better nick at the moment.
WTF? Why the hell is someone giving him an interview like that? The Hitler one ffs!
fecking hell, it really puts things in perspective. I've not really been a big critic of his since people were saying he'd replace Scholes, which was obviously bollocks as he's nothing like Scholes. But some of the things said about him are incredibly harsh. I felt uneasy reading those questions to Carrick but hoped they'd never see the light of day.
A couple of years ago he was just as good as Henderson and Ramsey. If he could be at their level again that would be encouraging.
Is this serious? he isn't a tank by all means but Cleverley does nothing but run and provide room for those around him. Gerrard would do damage given the space that Cleverley can give you once he's passed and moved.
Very good response from Cleverley. Needs to respond on the pitch now.
Cleverley's best attribute has to be his movement. Cleverley likes to get all around the pitch and be involved in short, quick passes. He'd excel in a role like Henderson where he'd be free to roam more. His game is quite simple, move, form the triangle and lay the ball off quick and look for it back. He often has the most passes for us in a game so I don't know how he doesn't show for the ball. His off the ball-movement is a strength of his too. In a recent match he made a great move without ever touching the ball. Made the run out left leaving a huge gap centrally for can't remember who to drop in and receive and then cut back in centrally to open back up the wing for Evra.
Actually people want him to pass the ball with more invention, rather than to score goals.
He can do far better than what he has shown this season. He has had a few glimpses though and he certainly showed in previous seasons he has potential.
No chance will I write this player off yet
Remember how unpopular Fletcher used to be, and he managed to turn it around and become an important player
No chance will I write this player off yet
Remember how unpopular Fletcher used to be, and he managed to turn it around and become an important player
I think Moyes should set some in-game deliverables from him:
1) 10 forward passes + 5 through pass attempts
2) 10 mins of dribbling
3) 3 shoats at goal from edge of box.
1) 10 forward passes + 5 through pass attempts
2) 10 mins of dribbling
3) 3 shoats at goal from edge of box.
Supplement Cleverley with a runner in the midfield, and we will see his best.
Comparing himself to Spanish midfielders, he's having a laugh. There is no invention or confidence in his passing game. They pass the ball sideways for a reason Tom not because they are scared. He doesn't shoot, tackle, head or do any of the things needed by a typical English midfielder. Henderson is proving to be the better more effective player in Brenton's system.
If you had to drop one person from the team, how would you tell Cleverley? Very good.
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