Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

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To me, he is not as bad as people (fans and media) are making him sound this season. To me, his problem is temperament. He always looks rushing whether it is passing, receiving ball or tackling. The calmness which we associate with Carrick is not there. Cleverley has talent but somebody needs to work with him to ensure he does things with more calmness, which will automatically improve his contribution as he will be able to make better decisions on pitch.
 
That quote on La Liga is terrible. He's making it sound like the fans can't appreciate his nuanced passing game. He would have been better off taking the criticism silently. And I'm sure almost all footballers get loads of ridicule/abuse on Twitter after a bad game; they should be used to it by now. If it effects their game, they should get off Twitter.
 
kps88 said:
That quote on La Liga is terrible. He's making it sound like the fans can't appreciate his nuanced passing game. He would have been better off taking the criticism silently. And I'm sure almost all footballers get loads of ridicule/abuse on Twitter after a bad game; they should be used to it by now. If it effects their game, they should get off Twitter.
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I think he knows that. Its the fact his been made the scapegoat which he bemoans and seemingly he's doing what he's instructed to do...
 
JaffyJoe said:
Comparing himself to Spanish midfielders, he's having a laugh. There is no invention or confidence in his passing game. They pass the ball sideways for a reason Tom not because they are scared. He doesn't shoot, tackle, head or do any of the things needed by a typical English midfielder. Henderson is proving to be the better more effective player in Brenton's system.
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You say that but many on here were saying the same not to long ago.
 
Jaysince91 said:
Is this serious? he isn't a tank by all means but Cleverley does nothing but run and provide room for those around him. Gerrard would do damage given the space that Cleverley can give you once he's passed and moved.
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Very serious, i don't think you understand our system and what is Gerrards role in our team anymore. It isn't to do 'damage' his there to protect the defence and act as the playmaker, not destroy teams with his passing or his ability to get a goal like he used to. Due to that Hendersons role has become more important, because Gerrard has shown in the past his lack of mobility doesn't allow him to press high up the pitch or even get beyond our strikers to score a goal. These are all things Henderson does now, and things i haven't seen Cleverley excel at during his United tenure, to me he isn't really comparable to Henderson at all.
 
Fair play to him for fronting up. I believe he is a West Brom/West Ham player personally, but I respect his attitude. Still, if he were put on the market today, he'd be very fortunate to land in the Europa League.
 
The bloke needs to grow a pair and try to improve as a footballer instead of go running to the papers, in the faintest hope of sympathy. Why the hell should we have sympathy for a bloke who gets paid a kings ransom for being beyond average. He probably got paid for this interview.
The interview does give us an insight into how DM wants his CMs to set up, which is equally worrying as Tom's backwards steps in progress. Why look at players like Vidal etc, if you are just going to shackle them deep and with no forward thinking football.
 
Yeah, Tom has it wrong. The criticism for him isn't about not scoring goals or tackling like Roy Keane or that he plays sideways passes. Its that he seems to JUST play sideways passes. He offers no incisiveness to the team. Retaining possession is well and good but when he talks about 'Spanish midfielders' they can actually pick a good through ball and unlock a defense when the moment presents itself. Tom doesn't do this enough.
 
JaffyJoe said:
Comparing himself to Spanish midfielders, he's having a laugh. There is no invention or confidence in his passing game. They pass the ball sideways for a reason Tom not because they are scared. He doesn't shoot, tackle, head or do any of the things needed by a typical English midfielder. Henderson is proving to be the better more effective player in Brenton's system.
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Henderson always been more talented at 360°
 
Snipers Breath said:
You say that but many on here were saying the same not to long ago.
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Some did, personally I never saw it. I called him out as average from the beginning. He does everything at a decent level but that really isn't good enough. He said his job isn't to score goals/assist your playing with Carrick, are you being serious. Honestly

I don't think he should be an attacking midfielder with the mentality he plays with.
 
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Ramshock said:
He is fond of flapping his gums at the minute, he needs to show it on the pitch first.
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This. I actually thought it was a stupid interview. Not sure why people are saying his responses are good.

Spanish fans clap when you make sideway passes when you keep possession? Sure, if you are under pressure. When under no pressure, with an opportunity to make a forward pass I doubt they'd be clapping like retards when you make a pointless sideway pass.
 
He's only in the squad because he's here. If he was playing for anyone else not only would he not be on our radar, there'd actually be amusement/anger were his name ever linked.
 
The frustration with Cleverley, similar to Anderson I suppose is what we know he can do but just hasn't done enough.

When he first burst onto the scene the way he moved the ball fixed so many issues we were crying about the season before...it was the reason why we attacked maybe twice against Barcelona in that CL final. Simply put, it was about quick movement and quick passing. That goal against City remains one of my favourites of all time regardless of it being in a glorified friendly.

In fact I couldn't believe the disappointment when he first got injured, this was a player who was a 5 game old United player. Whilst he has shown glimpses of his talents at times since that run, he's not really played at that level and that is what we naturally compare to and how we naturally become frustrated. In the last few weeks people are constantly sending my videos of what certain players are capable of doing but either lack the balls to do it now or they're being misguided by a clueless manager (disclaimer - this isn't a direct Moyes blast, it's an option as to why someone like Cleverley is now bland, boring and average).

Of course we 'overrated' him, it's natural. He's been through the ranks since he was in the juniors. You want to see them do well and when they do get into the first team, you believe in them. The realisation of his actual quality will always come, so it's hardly an issue.

I'd like to think that this group of players is simply being mismanaged (well I don't like to think that), because they've shown top tier capabilities in this league in the two seasons before this by being marginally better and worse than City (City were mismanaged last season). Good players don't just become shit, they're human after all. Many of us are unimpressed with Moyes in the media, comments in interviews or even the way he appears on the touchline, many now believe he's out of his depth. That can affect the players (it clearly is) and we can see how tentative, unimaginative and bollockless our players have become.

It's not all down to the manager, you'd hope the players were mentally strong enough to cope with issues but Cleverley has been dramatically worse than last season (where he was inconsistent but never really bad), as have quite a number of established players in the squad so you do wonder...why?
 
It doesnt surprise me at all that we have a better winrate with Cleverley in the team because he was playing regularly when we had most of our best players available and fell out of favour around the time RVP and Rooney were both out for ages. It has also been a very poor comeback of the Carrick-Fletcher combination which I expect has picked up very few points. Plus Cleverley has barely had to play next to Fellaini, they dont seem to get picked together.
 
Probably one of those instances where Tom would have been better proving it on the pitch.

My worry here is - if he's gone out and said this - he might think he's playing well, and this is an acceptable level for him - which he hasn't and it isn't.
 
I've always viewed him as a squad player at best, and have been constructively critical of certain aspects of his play, but it's absolutely sickening to see so many of our fans turn completely against this homegrown player who's always shown a desire to succeed. Support the players and criticise the root of our problems this season: Moyes.
 
There is a bitter irony attached to the scapegoating of Cleverley: English fans clamoured for a young player who keeps possession and moves the ball quickly and efficiently in transition and then, when they got one, they have tried to run him out of town.
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Of course the problem is he hasnt moved the ball quickly and efficiently this season, hence he hasnt been at his best and he's lost his place
 
'What Is The Point of Tom Cleverley?' is another common refrain on social media. Well, put it this way, if Cleverley had been on the pitch, Steve Sidwell would not have been allowed to drift unmarked into the box and score Fulham’s first goal on Sunday evening.
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Really? Because thats how we were being hurt last season when Anderson and Cleverley were starting. Pretty good on the ball, looked pretty good going forward, neither of them tracked back well enough or saw the danger and that made our defence vulnerable.
 
He's rubbish and needs to shut up. There are so many games were I've watched him pass the ball 5 yards when there was acres of space ahead of him. He refuses to take any sort of responsibility on the pitch. I've seen opposition players go past him like he wasn't there. Keeping possession is not the point of football and can be counter productive. Busquets, Khedhira, De Jong, Martinez etc can get away with 5 yard sideways passes because they are defensive midfielders.
 
Don't want to make excuses for him as he has been below par, but does anyone else think he suffers the same way Kagawa does? He'd be a lot better in a fluid system with more movement ahead of him. I don't think it's a coincidence we saw his best form at the start of the 2011/12 season when we started at such a high tempo.
 
I think he needs to play with Welbeck up front ahead of him. Their understanding is the reason he played well in that system. Welbeck isnt good enough to play instead of RVP so thats a problem.

As for Cleverley alone, while his general play and passing has been worse this season he's definitely stepped it up with some of his defensive responsiblities. For example he does a huge amount more than Fletcher does in that respect these days. So Cleverley can probably think himself unlucky not to be starting instead of him.
 
Carrick got the abuse on his twitter Q&A then next game we saw him pushing forward and getting some shots in, even scoring. He was a better player.
Hopefully now Cleverley has been made aware of all the abuse he can go on and try and prove differently too, sometimes the players might just need that shove in the right direction
 
coolredwine said:
Supplement Cleverley with a runner in the midfield, and we will see his best.
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But he's not good enough to supplement.

Is he a Pirlo? Is he a Gerrard? He's definitely not Scholes. I could understand putting a runner next to those type of players. But Cleverley has shown nothing that comes close to that ability. And has he not played with Jones in midfield?
 
2 Man Midfield said:
Don't want to make excuses for him as he has been below par, but does anyone else think he suffers the same way Kagawa does? He'd be a lot better in a fluid system with more movement ahead of him. I don't think it's a coincidence we saw his best form at the start of the 2011/12 season when we started at such a high tempo.
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We played a poor Arsenal team at the time.

Spurs had Kranjcar and Livermore as their CMs. People went overboard back then with him and Anderson.
 
2 Man Midfield said:
Don't want to make excuses for him as he has been below par, but does anyone else think he suffers the same way Kagawa does? He'd be a lot better in a fluid system with more movement ahead of him. I don't think it's a coincidence we saw his best form at the start of the 2011/12 season when we started at such a high tempo.
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He would most likely be better in a more fluid system a system were players seem to have to create out of nowhere. There is no intelligent movement (bar Van Persie), no interplay, no one wants the ball under pressure etc.

The fact is he hasn't been good enough, but somewhere in his head he seems to think the criticism is unwarranted.
 
Bojan11 said:
We played a poor Arsenal team at the time.

Spurs had Kranjcar and Livermore as their CMs. People went overboard back then with him and Anderson.
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And we've played against supposedly inferior midfields this season and it doesn't matter who has been there, our CM has been invisible against them. As he did shine against weak teams, the very least we know he is capable of doing it - so question is why hasn't he been able to so far this season? Very well could be the instruction he has been given is to just do what he has been doing, keep the ball, let the ball get played out wide and let the front players do the creative work.

Would be nice to see him and the rest of the midfield be given a chance to at least go out there and just play.
 
Bojan11 said:
We played a poor Arsenal team at the time.

Spurs had Kranjcar and Livermore as their CMs. People went overboard back then with him and Anderson.
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I'm not talking about him and Anderson, just Cleverley. One example of what i mean is the goal against City in the CS, and they don't have too shabby a midfield.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Actually people want him to pass the ball with more invention, rather than to score goals.
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That's exactly it. Like Fletcher, he fails to understand the criticism. Or at least, parts of it. Good on him for standing up for himself but he'll need to improve his overall play to complement his words. I don't think anyone would really care that much about his goal tally if he was a good midfielder. Look at Carrick, hardly ever scores goals, but has been an integral part of the side for the last few years.

I really would have liked for him to confront the actual criticism, that he asks for the ball all the time but almost never makes things happen.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I think Moyes should set some in-game deliverables from him:

1) 10 forward passes + 5 through pass attempts
2) 10 mins of dribbling
3) 3 shoats at goal from edge of box.
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The problem is though, even our most creative players cannot do this. Our system is so constrictive that Rooney would struggle to hit these targets so if you put a player in whose not as gifted and ask him to do the job of conjoining our attack with our midfield, he will struggle.
 
Bojan11 said:
We played a poor Arsenal team at the time.

Spurs had Kranjcar and Livermore as their CMs. People went overboard back then with him and Anderson.
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God, that grinds my gears when people go on about that supposedly Barcelona esq period.
 
Snipers Breath said:
Very serious, i don't think you understand our system and what is Gerrards role in our team anymore. It isn't to do 'damage' his there to protect the defence and act as the playmaker, not destroy teams with his passing or his ability to get a goal like he used to. Due to that Hendersons role has become more important, because Gerrard has shown in the past his lack of mobility doesn't allow him to press high up the pitch or even get beyond our strikers to score a goal. These are all things Henderson does now, and things i haven't seen Cleverley excel at during his United tenure, to me he isn't really comparable to Henderson at all.
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Playmaking is surely him making the best of space given by passing the ball? that is what I meant when I said causing damage. I've seen how Gerrard has been playing in a deeper role as it was only last season I remember him being quite vocal on him feeling that he isn't at the point in his career where he needs to evolve his game.
Anyway, Cleverley creates space for Carrick in similar ways to Henderson... now he's the energy in midfield it helps Gerrard and the rest of the team dictate their play, this is what Cleverley does in doses for us.
They aren't the same players, Cleverley and Henderson, but their jobs are comparable.
 
I can't help but feel sorry for Tom who in my opinion has been a victim of being thrust into the team too early and at a time when our midfield is all over the place. It looks like he doesn't actually know what his job is supposed to be, who is he meant to be moulding into for us? When he tries the simple sideways balls he isn't effective because Carrick hasn't got the dynamism to burst into space while Clev holds, thus Clev is obviously meant to be using his relative mobility in some way. This mobility when off the ball just comes across as being all in the wrong areas, with a headless chicken approach and more is less with him it seems. England have tried playing him a little further forward but he lacks the composure infront of goal and is prone to a miss that can knock his confidence even further. He hasn't the licence to be playing the hollywood switch and isn't the best dribbler.

I think the question currently thrown around along the lines of "What does Clev do?" should be changed to "What is Clev meant to do?".
 
We're assholes, really. Great cameo in the Charity Shield transformed him into our central midfield saviour in a heartbeat. Didn't take a rocket scientist to predict there'd be a backlash not too far down the line. he was never as good as he was painted, nor is he as bad as some think now. I don't see any way he'll be a starter in whatever our 2014/ 2015 reconstructed midfield looks like, though.
 
Adebesi said:
If you had to drop one person from the team, how would you tell Cleverley? Very good.
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If you read Sir Alex's book, he talked about how to tell a player he's not playing. It's not easy but a strong manager is able to do it without harming relationship or risking a breach of trust. Man management is also essential and every player is different and hence be treated differently
 
I don't like the drivel that is aimed at him, a lot of it is so vitriolic you'd think he plays for a rival team. He's not the best in the world, but that doesn't mean he can't perform for us and have a role that he can make his own.
 
I think a lot of the frustration comes from the fact we havent signed a proper midfielder to improve that area while Cleverley has been starting. Its not really Cleverley's fault that we cant see we need a good CM and when we finally do sign a midfielder Fellaini wasnt the one to go for. But at the same time he'd do himself a lot of favours if he did take a few more chances to create something rather than just trying to keep the ball every time. So it is on him too.

Personally I'd play him instead of Fletcher or Fellaini. But hes obviously still not good enough
 
Bojan11 said:
But he's not good enough to supplement.

Is he a Pirlo? Is he a Gerrard? He's definitely not Scholes. I could understand putting a runner next to those type of players. But Cleverley has shown nothing that comes close to that ability. And has he not played with Jones in midfield?
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Cleverley has been good (decent) when he played with Jones. It's only when he has been paired with Carrick that he has suffered.
 
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