Agree the lack of reinforcements has really shown up how average he is. I fear for TC23 (wtf) I think if he leaves United he could drop like a stone as Luke Chadwick was a better player.
Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter Bebe
- Start date
- Status
Agree the lack of reinforcements has really shown up how average he is. I fear for TC23 (wtf) I think if he leaves United he could drop like a stone as Luke Chadwick was a better player.
If any player in the squad screams average,. it's Tom Cleverley
He'd have trouble getting into any other prem team. That's how average he is. Cardiff have a better selection of midfielders.
It's depressing, isnt it?
I'm not a fan of Fellaini, but I can't wait till he's back in the team again.
If passing the ball sideways earned you a point each time, Tom Cleverley would be one of the top players in the league
I think I'm going to slit my wrists
Average is a compliment to him.
He's young enough that te can still turn it around, But I reckon if he keeps this up for much longer, whatever millstones are in his head will stay there.
Agree that if he's let go now, he'll sink fast.
Agree that if he's let go now, he'll sink fast.
I like how the only time in the entire game he ran over to the right side of the pitch, was so he could pass the balll to someone stood about half a metre away from him, and then presumably run back again.
I think he needs to take up (or be given) more responsibility. There was a couple of flashes of brilliance during the Stoke game. The first was his double touch dribble to get away from a defender and he found himself at the edge of the box, only to pass a very short sideway pass to Rooney, essentially shirking responsibility. The other was after we conceded the second and he got a rare shot away which was stopped by the keeper.
With his energy levels, he really ought to be getting in the opposition area and chipping in goals for us.
Unfortunately, with Mata and Rooney etc taking up position outside the box behind Rvp, I don't see Cleverley ever having the chance to do that. Too congested in those areas.
With his energy levels, he really ought to be getting in the opposition area and chipping in goals for us.
Unfortunately, with Mata and Rooney etc taking up position outside the box behind Rvp, I don't see Cleverley ever having the chance to do that. Too congested in those areas.
United fans needing a scapegoat ?
Surely not.
Surely not.
Yeah I truly don't believe he is bad player. He is a decent player who can look like a very good player with confidence and with solid cover.
He isn't a scapegoat for this season. I didn't think he was much good last year either. He's probably decent player who'd probably find his groove at a club like Stoke or Fulham but along side Welbeck, if Cleverley was a regular player for any of our direct rivals (CL qualifiers) then both players would be regular subjects of ridicule on this board, and rightfully so.
We shouldn't be afraid to say it just because he's someone who came through the system. Players are judged by their ability and I've not really seen anything to say Cleverley looks even comfortable at this level, let alone capable of taking it by storm.
It doesn't make him a bad person or a bad player but so many insist on clutching at straws when it's obvious to all those who have convinced themselves otherwise that there's little chance of him ever becoming a top player for us.
People who say he's not good enough do so on evidence of his performances. Those who claim he will be seem to be basing it solely on where he comes from and hope rather than any real expectation. IMO we can't keep players on the off-chance they might come good purely based on their route into the first team. If he was a 24 year old Dutch CM with the same level of ability and performance there'd not even be a debate.
We shouldn't be afraid to say it just because he's someone who came through the system. Players are judged by their ability and I've not really seen anything to say Cleverley looks even comfortable at this level, let alone capable of taking it by storm.
It doesn't make him a bad person or a bad player but so many insist on clutching at straws when it's obvious to all those who have convinced themselves otherwise that there's little chance of him ever becoming a top player for us.
People who say he's not good enough do so on evidence of his performances. Those who claim he will be seem to be basing it solely on where he comes from and hope rather than any real expectation. IMO we can't keep players on the off-chance they might come good purely based on their route into the first team. If he was a 24 year old Dutch CM with the same level of ability and performance there'd not even be a debate.
He's had his chance this season to step up and hasn't taken it. He's a backup who should be in the team only when we literally have no one else...oh look we don't. Sigh
The same Welbeck who was one of our better players through December into January and scored 6 in 6 playing in his favoured position.
I am happy for players like Cleverly to take a bit of criticism, I think in the main he does need to take a bit more responsibility on and he is struggling to fit into a midfield two. I personally think he would do some good work on the right of the three behind the main striker in a 4-2-3-1...just me.
But to criticise Welbeck after him coming off a good run of form is a bit much. He has shown the ability (or potential) to become a top striker when played in that position. When you consider that a lot of people want us to press from the front and he is our best at doing just that I just think he gets stick for the sake of it at this point.
I like Danny but if we are being honest most are not judging him on 6 games but actually 2-3 seasons now. And Tom Cleverley wide of a 3 behind the striker dear oh dear are you serious? What creativity and attributes would he offer there?
He would still be chasing shadows and sprinting aimlessly.....
Or we could judge him on this season, wherein he's had 12 league starts, 9 of which were up front, and scored 8 goals. It's absurd to put him in the same boat as Cleverley.
Yep, Danny can be a good 3rd choice striker for us long term. Doubt he'l make it higher though as I just dont see him playing enough upfront to polish his game enough. Clev on the other hand has just stalled or actually gone back in terms of development. At best, at a stretch, good enough to be a squad player.
Welbeck has a lot of potential. If he could stop shitting himself every time the ball gets to him in the box, he'd be a really good player. His all round play is already at a very good level.
Cleverley on the other hand has no hope. This was his best chance of cementing his place in the team considering how weak we are in the middle. And he's gone into hiding every single time. Instead of taking the game by the scruff of the neck, he's happy to do the safe pointless side or back passes.
Cleverley on the other hand has no hope. This was his best chance of cementing his place in the team considering how weak we are in the middle. And he's gone into hiding every single time. Instead of taking the game by the scruff of the neck, he's happy to do the safe pointless side or back passes.
He's our backup number nine and he's done better at it than any comparable player in the league. He's outscored Eto'o and Dzeko, who've both have played more in much better sides, he's only just behind Negredo, Lukaku and Giroud who are all first choice at better sides. He's ahead of strikers like Bony and Benteke and Lambert who are all, again, first choice CFs. Last season it was all "he's a good player but he needs to add goals" and now, with him scoring plenty despite limited opportunities, he seems to be getting even more stick.
Cleverley, on the other hand, has followed an okay season with a largely woeful one. Welbeck's progressing from an already superior position, and Cleverley is only getting worse. There's no comparison.
Cleverley, on the other hand, has followed an okay season with a largely woeful one. Welbeck's progressing from an already superior position, and Cleverley is only getting worse. There's no comparison.
He spearheaded the attack in a season we lost the title on only goal difference. That reads a lot worse than it should, he was great with Rooney that season. The season after he was shunted here, there and everywhere coupled with injury, it ended up being a bit of a write off. This season has been a mixture of the previous two. When played where he should be, he has done well. When he hasn't been. He has been poor.
It isn't rocket science with Danny. Play him where he should be played.
RE: Cleverley. As I said, it is just me, I can't back it with hard facts as to why I think he'd do well out there, just a feeling.
I feel these stats (all PL) need to be mentioned whenever there's a discussion of Danny's 'correct' position:
Nine starts up front this season, 8 goals and 2 assists.
Three starts on the wing this season, 0 goals and 1 assist.
Thirty starts up front in his United career: 17 goals and 8 assists.
Twenty starts on the wing in his United career: 2 goals and 4 assists.
I was bored the other night, so I decided to watch the first 60 mins of the Stoke game again (mercifully I fell asleep at that point.) For fun, I decided to just watch Cleverley. My god, was he useless. On the very rare occasions that he attempted an incisive forward pass, the ball invariably went astray. The rest of the time? Annoyingly ineffectual passes to the United player standing closest to him. As well, the term 'hiding in plain sight' really applies. He makes all sorts of little gestures with his hands, seemingly telling his teammates where he wants the pass, and then just drifts/jogs aimlessly as the pass is played somewhere else. As for the defensive side? Pylon is the word that springs to mind. I honestly think we'd get more out of playing Kagawa (and yes I know Kagawa is a '10'.....)
Cleverley reminds me of some annoyingly pretentious guy you play with on your after-work team; a guy who feels himself above watching the EPL, instead preferring to watch La Liga, constantly sprinkling words like false nine and tiki-taka into his conversation, and who fancies himself a bit of a Xavi because he makes a lot of short, quick passes. And at the end of the night, isn't invited out for a beer.
Cleverley reminds me of some annoyingly pretentious guy you play with on your after-work team; a guy who feels himself above watching the EPL, instead preferring to watch La Liga, constantly sprinkling words like false nine and tiki-taka into his conversation, and who fancies himself a bit of a Xavi because he makes a lot of short, quick passes. And at the end of the night, isn't invited out for a beer.
plus 1 for comedic effort.
I remember a couple seasons ago, before he got injured by Kevin Davies everyone here hailed him as the next Zidane 
I remember a couple seasons ago, before he got injured by Kevin Davies everyone here hailed him as the next Zidane
Yeah, sure
My question is who did a 'Moonstars' on him, taking away his self belief, confidence and ability? I've never seen a player totally disappear into a shell like he has.
Im not surprised by this. Im wondering what our other midfielders and in fact Rooneys passing was like considering we seem so reliant on putting the ball out wide into the wing positions. Not an excuse for him before anybody says, as I think hes been average at best for a while.
Still think he plays his best when he has somebody mobile next to him (well he did so in the initial parts of his United career)
There is no way I'm comparing the two (just badly typed) I am a fan of Danny but in the box I never think he will score as his composure is poor. TC23 is just not good enough a central midfield version of Ashley Young.
Those jogs where he runs in blind alleys and leaves Carrick all alone, I mean how the feck hasn't he ever been told to stop that ? I don't understand this has never been tried to be addressed. Cleverley likes to leave his CM partner alone and without passing options. He's a positional mess.
I remember a couple seasons ago, before he got injured by Kevin Davies everyone here hailed him as the next Zidane
I remember in the newbies somebody was trying to convince everyone that because Xavi blossomed late in his career that the same would happen for Cleverley.
Hmmm... It seems that arguably the Premier League's manager of the season so far sees something in Cleverley that the rest of you don't.
Maybe he's just finding it hard to play as part of a team that's having a season from hell? Just like almost everyone else in our squad?
I don't think know ones doubting his ability its his lack of progression and negative effect on the game which is the problem. I'm sure he would blossom under a manger that likes continuous possession. Problem is England and United don't play that way. Not really his fault.
I don't think he would do that we'll because whilst he might retain possession he rarely does anything with it.
If you look at any top team who look for a more possession based approach I can't think of any teams that have a player where all he does is play it safe, there's always another role he plays, ie busquets is the holding player.
Clev doesn't defend well and he lacks the ability/willingness to execute creative passes. I think he'd look more comfortable in a more narrow possession based team but I think the inherent shortfalls in his game would still mean that he'd be someone who fits in when you're playing well and isn't going to change anything if you're not.
I assume that's Martinez?
The over the top criticism of Cleverley in this thread has been disgraceful.
Its becoming cringe worthy
- Status