Like I said, he is only good at passing the ball to a team mate standing next to him. I can do that as well. He doesnt really run with the ball and try and create space that way either.
Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances
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To be fair it's not just him, I have a bit of a bee in my bonnet about footballers getting obscene wages and living the life of Riley before actually achieving anything
When things go wrong it has to be Cleverley and/Welbeck's fault.
I hate that too. To me Cleverley embodies it all. Marries a bimbo girl off TOWIE and seems happy to take his obscene wages home every week with no real desire to improve himself. I think Gibson had more about him. He does everything Cleverley does and he could actually score.
Exactly
Tom Sideways Cleverley. A distinctively average player who should be no where near our first team.
That would work if we were only blaming them. Evra came in for a lot of rightful criticism because he also had a very poor game.
Have you ever thought that when things go wrong and people blame Cleverley and Welbeck it might be because they're deserving of that criticism? Both of them were average yesterday and it was pointed out.
Average? They were awful. I wish half our players would put in average performances this season but far too many have just been shit. At their best they're average players, decent squad players but more suited to mid table teams.
I think I was one of the first on here to suggest he could/should be sold, and was kicked all over the forum for a couple of pages. He's a West Brom midfielder.
Welbeck was terrible. Cleverley was average in the way that he didn't do much wrong most of the time, but is just completely pointless in that his sideways passing makes Stewart Downing look like the most forward thinking footballer in the past decade. Although I suppose doing nothing could come under being awful.
If it hadn't been for his impressive start to the 2011/2012 season, I wonder if he'd still be here. A lot of people thought he'd develop into a top player back then and I had a lot of hope that he'd turn out to be very good, but it's ended up the complete opposite of that. His progress since then makes Anderson's in his 7 years here look impressive.
That's an insult to West Brom midfielders.
There is more to lament in the decision to put Welbeck on (and in that position) than anything he did imo. And as for Cleverley he's this seasons scapegoat when it's clear that the problems in this team are far more inherent. The team is playing some truly awful football and it's far from the fault of these two. De Gea was hoofing the ball up the pitch whenever it came to him, Rooney was attempting to ping 40yard Hollywood balls in that wind, our main intention was to get to the byline and whip crosses in despite the fact that using that tactic is playing into Stoke's hands since they clear those high balls into the box with ease. Why were they instructed to play that way? We need some new players but adding muppet targets in the positions of Cleverley, Welbeck and Evra isn't going to solve a damn thing if this is the way we're going to continue to play.
The thing is, people recognise all of the things you mentioned. There's about 20 threads from the game yesterday on how poorly we played and how poorly Moyes has the team playing. Some of those players playing noticeably poorly are Cleverley and Welbeck, so people are criticising them for it in their respectable threads. They're not scapegoats; they're merely among some of our worst performers yesterday so it's only right that people are going to get annoyed about it in their threads.
Adding top players in their positions might not solve anything, but simply having someone instead of Cleverley in the midfield who's capable of making one or two incisive passes would help us a lot.
He is very much an average player. Had high hopes for him when he broke into the first team, but hasn't seemed to improved much.
He should have stayed at Wigan.
Remember how well he played in our 3-2 come back win in the community shield against city? We were all foaming at the mouth at how good he looked.
Remember how well he played in our 3-2 come back win in the community shield against city? We were all foaming at the mouth at how good he looked.
True. I'd take Mulumbu over him any day.
This is our main problem though isn't it? We had Cleverley, Carrick and then Rooney in the middle and none of them made these incisive passes because they way we play doesn't invite them. With RVP back we have another outlet with which to release a longball and hope he gets it or else we just stick to shifting it across the middle and putting it out wide. Carrick our most influential CM of the past few seasons looks lost in the middle and for this reason I can't see what any other players will do unless we spend big money. Frankly, I'm surprised Mata has done so well with his start here.
A good example of how the system is more important than the player is Kagawa. The guy set the Bundesliga alight, being put in their media team of the year and becoming one of Dortmund's most influential players, but at United he might as well declare himself a flop.
There is a clear mismatch between our players and our managements tactics whether that's because the players are stuck wanting to play last seasons formation and tactics rather than the new mans stuff I don't know, but something needs to give or we'll spend big on a CM and do what he tried to do with Ando or Kagawa.
There seems to be no attempt to deviate from the initial plan and play to the strengths of the team overall or even to suit individuals. Carrick hasn't been playing well either lately but it isn't because he's become shit since last season we are just playing in a way that isn't allowing him to influence the game in the way he did last season where he dictated games with his passing in midfield whereas now he's sitting far too deep supposedly 'protecting' the back 4 and not running the show with his passing like he did. Carrick was a calming influence on the team last season now our passing seems nervy, erratic and predictably to the wings all the time. Cleverley is always going to look poor if we're not passing and moving which he's very good at, but our movement atm is fecking awful and we insisted on playing high balls in the air which we shouldn't be doing at the best of times never mind against big teams like Stoke in windy conditions like that.
I'm not against calling out poor individual performances or individual errors, of which I can admit there have been a few, but context is important and I just feel the way we are set up and the tactics we are employing is never going to bring the best out of these players. Bayern's team wouldn't look good trying to play the way we are atm.
The difference is that a player like Carrick has shown himself to be capable in previous seasons. He's had a poor year and our tactics obviously don't help, but there's nothing to indicate that Cleverley would be a particularly great midfielder for us in a better system. He'd perhaps be slightly better, but he'd still be a level below what we need. Rooney's not an actual midfielder which doesn't help his case, but at least he was making some bursts forward and occasionally looking dangerous from midfield.
Cleverley's just like a bit of lettuce. Not awful, not outwardly bad most of the time, and not bad to have there, but also uninspiring, fairly bland, unexciting and you don't want it to be the centrepiece of a meal in the way you wouldn't want Cleverley to be the centrepiece of your team.
Again, I agree that Cleverley would at least look slightly better if we were playing better football, but so would most players and it's not the only flaw in his game. He's never really showed signs of being a top player bar one good start to a season and a better system is only going to improve him in the way it'd narrowly improve any midfielder.
Nothing player, we know this. He hasn't once overly impressed me, even Anderson has done so in the past. That graphic is telling, feckin' crab.
I agree I don't think he's a top player. I don't think he should be first choice at a club like ours especially in a midfield two, but I do think he's a decent squad player and the problems in this team run far deeper than him and Welbeck. There are inferior squads in the PL and other leagues with worse players who are playing better football than us atm.
I really like the guy, but he is nowhere near good enough to be our starting central midfielder - to add to that, once (if) we buy some decent midfielders, he will not be good enough to be even be a squad player (for a club of such stature, we really shouldn't be looking at this sort of player. He wouldn't get 5 games in a season at Real, BVB, City or any other club). This is, of course, assuming he doesn't turn a corner, but how long are we going to afford him? How long can we afford ourselves? It's not his fault really, not everyone is going to be a world beater and develop as you'd expect (he showed such promise a few years ago), but if we want to stay at the top (or get there in the first place, looking at things right now) we need to be ruthless. We cannot just keep him because he's an academy kid.
I get what you're saying but even if we bought a bustling, industrious Yaya of a player; would he still play like that for us or would we try to mould him into something he's not? I guess it all boils down to Moyes and what his desired style of play is. Either way, I can see hopefully some midfielders coming in and I hope Moyes proves his doubters wrong and gets us playing how we want us to play.
I still believe he will come good when we add a world class midfielder in there.
Is there no one left that rates Cleverley? Am I stuck in this world all alone?
I know it's so easy for me to place blame on the system or anything else that takes away blame for Cleverley, but I just don't think Cleverley suits sitting alongside Carrick.
Let's accept the fact that he doesn't have the biggest range of passing and isn't going to pin the balls out wide like Rooney. But Cleverley does have qualities, especially his first touch passing and movement. If you guys focus on Cleverley, you'll see that he opens up space for his teammates with his movement dragging defenders with him. There was one moment yesterday, when the play went through him I think and he ended up taking a decent shot to test the keeper, he needs to do more of that.
I agree wholeheartedly that he hasn't performed to the standards we expect of a Manchester United midfielder, but he does have good qualities and if he manages to find his rhythm then he can come good. But whether or not we're going to see that or not remains to be seen.
I do also agree that had he not come from our academy, he probably would be one of the first out the door this summer, but I know there's a good player in there somewhere.
I know it's so easy for me to place blame on the system or anything else that takes away blame for Cleverley, but I just don't think Cleverley suits sitting alongside Carrick.
Let's accept the fact that he doesn't have the biggest range of passing and isn't going to pin the balls out wide like Rooney. But Cleverley does have qualities, especially his first touch passing and movement. If you guys focus on Cleverley, you'll see that he opens up space for his teammates with his movement dragging defenders with him. There was one moment yesterday, when the play went through him I think and he ended up taking a decent shot to test the keeper, he needs to do more of that.
I agree wholeheartedly that he hasn't performed to the standards we expect of a Manchester United midfielder, but he does have good qualities and if he manages to find his rhythm then he can come good. But whether or not we're going to see that or not remains to be seen.
I do also agree that had he not come from our academy, he probably would be one of the first out the door this summer, but I know there's a good player in there somewhere.
Has there ever been a game in the fifty or sixty odd he's played for us in which you though to yourself: "Yes, here's a player." Even Anderson managed to get that response at times.
To think that many fans thought he would be the answer to Scholes and that Pogba was over rated just shows how wrong fans and even managers can be with judgement....I'm pretty sure even Fergie thought Cleverley would take over the Scholes role.......his progress has stalled and he is a liability since the start of the season....I pretty sure that he will ever be good enough to a Ramsey and suddenly become a top player out of the blue
I'll happily admit that he hasn't been performing very well, and has been too safe. But it's sort of like Kagawa, imagine we didn't see Kagawa in Dortmund and bought him straight from Japan, we'd probably be thinking "is there a player there".
I just think Cleverley is more suited to a quicker tempo game with 1 touch passing and fast paced action, and I don't think he'll ever stand out when we keep playing this way.
But if we did play faster, and played through him a little bit more and he got his confidence back up then yeah I think he could prove to be a player. Whether or not that happens is anyone's guess but I wouldn't write him off completely just yet.
I wouldn't label him a liability, he just offers us absolutely nothing.
I don't think anyone thought Pogba was overrated in fairness. Some people like me may have agreed with the reasons (or assumptions we make) of why he didn't get in the team, but at the same time we all wanted to see him in the team that year anyway.
Doesn't do enough with the ball and is piss weak of it? Average at best will be good for a team like Villa or Newcastle
He is not good enough. He wouldn't get a look in at another good PL team. We need far better.
Jeez thats about as bad as it gets. Almost every forward pass was a failure.
Look how many of those passes were forward? It's all sideways, so fecking productive of him.
Cost us next to nothing, so in my opinion, he is a decent squad option. It's not his fault the club hasn't invested in midfield.
It's odd. When he broke through he seemed to have such great speed of thought.
I guess that early spark we saw was such him punching above his weight and the others making him look better than he actually was.
Since then he has been a nothing player.
I guess that early spark we saw was such him punching above his weight and the others making him look better than he actually was.
Since then he has been a nothing player.
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