Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

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I am a fan of Cleverley, I think he's an intelligent player and like Fletcher, I think he'll become an important player for Manchester United. When I was in the newbies, I found that many had a skewed perception of Cleverley. Many blamed him for our midfield shortcomings, but I was more of the opinion it was our system which forced him to play as he did. There is very little movement in front of Cleverley, and he lacks the passing range of Carrick so he cannot hit a long ball out to the wing consistently. It forced him to play the ball sideways and backwards to those that can. The games where he has done well are those where we play 3 in the middle, or have a lot of movement from someone like Januzaj or Welbeck in front of him. He is also very good at creating space for those around him, especially Carrick. I've noticed his little run forward was overlooked in the Newbs but I think its an intelligent little piece of play he produces. Often, it drags players away from Carrick, affording him time and space on the ball.

I do not think he is the answer to our midfield problems playing in the system we currently are, however if Moyes continues to change it, I'm sure Cleverley will play an important role for us, if nothing more than a solid squad player.
 
The funny part is Fletcher was absolutely tumescent at crossing. Like seriously, beyond pathetic. As he got older, playing in central midfield a lot he actually became a good crosser of the ball during his best form. He'd make good runs down the right and pick out a teammate. Shame he had no idea how to do that when he was playing right midfield
 
Blue always red said:
I am a fan of Cleverley, I think he's an intelligent player and like Fletcher, I think he'll become an important player for Manchester United. When I was in the newbies, I found that many had a skewed perception of Cleverley. Many blamed him for our midfield shortcomings, but I was more of the opinion it was our system which forced him to play as he did. There is very little movement in front of Cleverley, and he lacks the passing range of Carrick so he cannot hit a long ball out to the wing consistently. It forced him to play the ball sideways and backwards to those that can. The games where he has done well are those where we play 3 in the middle, or have a lot of movement from someone like Januzaj or Welbeck in front of him. He is also very good at creating space for those around him, especially Carrick. I've noticed his little run forward was overlooked in the Newbs but I think its an intelligent little piece of play he produces. Often, it drags players away from Carrick, affording him time and space on the ball.

I do not think he is the answer to our midfield problems playing in the system we currently are, however if Moyes continues to change it, I'm sure Cleverley will play an important role for us, if nothing more than a solid squad player.
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The reason you give for his sideways pass may be related to what tyou mention but if you watch carefully its more related to the next pass or the 3rd pass as you mention with Carricks space. Every time the ball moves opposition players move. Not all sideways passes are because a player lacks ability to play forward. Some players use the sideways pass combined with their own movement to create passing channels. You can tell this is what Cleverley is doing by his body shape, head movement and his movement. Cleverely always receives with a view to play forward, you can see that with his body shape and how he receives. Most on here simply dont see it, probably because they have never been coached how, why and when to do it.
As you say he isnt the answer to our problems but he isnt the cause and the abuse and vitriol in here of late is no different to what Fletcher got a few years back, I just find it ironic.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
I was reading some posts in this thread from 2011 and it is hilarious reading compared to current opinions on him. Comparisons to Silva and Iniesta weren't uncommon.

Thing is IIRC I always remember him playing either as a high energy winger or attacking midfielder in his loan spells and someone even compared him to a Ji Sung Park and I thought at the time the comparisons were valid.

That's the thing, I always remember Tom as a high energy player in his reserve days, loan spells and his early days in the first team. He just looks so lifeless and lacking in balls these days. Were those early days just a flash in the pan or did Kevin Davies' tackle really take that much out of him? Or we may simply be using him in the wrong role.
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I just want to bump this because this is the sort of argument that has been aimed at Anderson, more apt now that it appears he is own his way. We may have made a mistake here with Cleverley as well.

It's been years since he played that way, mind... Would it even be possible to convert him back? His style of play, even now, seems to be suited to a more freer role.
 
Stack said:
The reason you give for his sideways pass may be related to what tyou mention but if you watch carefully its more related to the next pass or the 3rd pass as you mention with Carricks space. Every time the ball moves opposition players move. Not all sideways passes are because a player lacks ability to play forward. Some players use the sideways pass combined with their own movement to create passing channels. You can tell this is what Cleverley is doing by his body shape, head movement and his movement. Cleverely always receives with a view to play forward, you can see that with his body shape and how he receives. Most on here simply dont see it, probably because they have never been coached how, why and when to do it.
As you say he isnt the answer to our problems but he isnt the cause and the abuse and vitriol in here of late is no different to what Fletcher got a few years back, I just find it ironic.
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That's a good perspective but I think that's going too far in the other direction. Passing horizontally is one way to open channels. But when a more vertical option is available and is bypassed just to try open up the spaces through a horizontal pass, I think some blame can be apportioned to Tom and some of our other CMs.

It's not just about why you're doing it, it's also about how effective that strategy is. There is nothing inherently wrong with sideways passing as you demonstrate. But at some point, you have to ask how effective is it in relation to our overall strategy of breaking down the opposition. Passing sideways for passing sideways sake only accomplishes so much.
 
Reading reports in the papers today that we are looking to sign 4 or 5 more players of Mata's quality, I wonder what the future holds for Cleverley. The last couple of weeks wouldve been a really good time for him to step up, in Carrick's absence. Feels to me like if there is a clearout coming his position might be a little precarious. On the other hand, if we are going to reinvent ourselves as a sexy passing team, as the Mata signing tantalisingly suggests, we might start getting the best out of him. A player Id like to see do well but at the moment he is surely behind Carrick, Fletcher and Fellaini in the pecking order, and if we are signing another midfielder that would presumably make him number five. As an England hopeful I wonder whether he might have his eye on the door himself.
 
Gladiator said:
That's a good perspective but I think that's going too far in the other direction. Passing horizontally is one way to open channels. But when a more vertical option is available and is bypassed just to try open up the spaces through a horizontal pass, I think some blame can be apportioned to Tom and some of our other CMs.

It's not just about why you're doing it, it's also about how effective that strategy is. There is nothing inherently wrong with sideways passing as you demonstrate. But at some point, you have to ask how effective is it in relation to our overall strategy of breaking down the opposition. Passing sideways for passing sideways sake only accomplishes so much.
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If you watch Tom, his body position on receiving is 95% of the time set up to go forward, his habit is to receive with a positive touch however he makes quick decisions based on if he thinks a pass is available or not. If not his next option he takes is to look for a quick give and go or to pass and then move to drag a defender away to create a channel for another pass. these are very clear patterns that he does. Unfortunately many on here dont see or understand that. His one big weakness is he doesnt run with the ball enough so he doesnt cause the opposition enough uncertainty about what he is going to do, he can be predictable. if he would run with the ball more he would give the opposition another problem to worry about. However if you put him beside a player such as Mata and Kagawa he can be the player who keeps recirculating the ball to them.
 
Stack said:
If you watch Tom, his body position on receiving is 95% of the time set up to go forward, his habit is to receive with a positive touch however he makes quick decisions based on if he thinks a pass is available or not. If not his next option he takes is to look for a quick give and go or to pass and then move to drag a defender away to create a channel for another pass. these are very clear patterns that he does. Unfortunately many on here dont see or understand that. His one big weakness is he doesnt run with the ball enough so he doesnt cause the opposition enough uncertainty about what he is going to do, he can be predictable. if he would run with the ball more he would give the opposition another problem to worry about. However if you put him beside a player such as Mata and Kagawa he can be the player who keeps recirculating the ball to them.
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Aye, he positions himself so that he can play a quick ball forward - then, more often than not, he bottles the forward pass that's on even if it's fairly easy and comfortable, electing to turn and play the ball to his full back instead.

Stack, do you assume people don't understand that you sometimes need to move the ball around to create space, just because they've don't been to a coaching course or something? It's fecking basic football. There's people on here who's even played or plays at a decent level.

There's nothing wrong with recirculating the ball, the trouble is Cleverley's far, far too cautious and afraid to play the forward pass even when it's on.
 
Stack said:
If you watch Tom, his body position on receiving is 95% of the time set up to go forward, his habit is to receive with a positive touch however he makes quick decisions based on if he thinks a pass is available or not. If not his next option he takes is to look for a quick give and go or to pass and then move to drag a defender away to create a channel for another pass. these are very clear patterns that he does. Unfortunately many on here dont see or understand that. His one big weakness is he doesnt run with the ball enough so he doesnt cause the opposition enough uncertainty about what he is going to do, he can be predictable. if he would run with the ball more he would give the opposition another problem to worry about. However if you put him beside a player such as Mata and Kagawa he can be the player who keeps recirculating the ball to them.
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This is the best description of Cleverley's game I have seen, and it also highlights why he looks average at best in our team. If you think back to those few games where he and Ando tore teams apart, can you think of many goals that came from the wings? The Arsenal game for example, I remember a lot of them coming centrally, with a few freekicks central and Youngs top strikes. Cleverley excelled because there were passes on for him centrally. The reason he looks so minor at times, is because very rarely there is a viable pass forward and when there is, he takes them. It is one of the reasons he looks good when Welbeck or Rooney are playing. They drop deeper to pick up the ball or drop just deep enough to be fed the ball and then turn.

If Moyes does change our team and make us play more central, then I can see him being a bigish player for us, because he is certainly one of the stronger technical midfielders we currently have seeing as Ando is gone and he favours the quick pass and move game whilst also maintaining an ounce of defensive ability.

Also, I find it absurd that he gets berated for running about chasing the ball down. In a team that presses as a unit, he would be a valuable addition just for his running alone and Moyes teams have always been good at pressing and chasing the ball down so if he gets the rest of them doing it, boy it will be a sight to behold.
 
Adebesi said:
Reading reports in the papers today that we are looking to sign 4 or 5 more players of Mata's quality, I wonder what the future holds for Cleverley. The last couple of weeks wouldve been a really good time for him to step up, in Carrick's absence. Feels to me like if there is a clearout coming his position might be a little precarious. On the other hand, if we are going to reinvent ourselves as a sexy passing team, as the Mata signing tantalisingly suggests, we might start getting the best out of him. A player Id like to see do well but at the moment he is surely behind Carrick, Fletcher and Fellaini in the pecking order, and if we are signing another midfielder that would presumably make him number five. As an England hopeful I wonder whether he might have his eye on the door himself.
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Yeah, someone like Mata might benefit Tom because he's so creative that he'd release some of the burden on Cleverley. Also his passing and movement might suit Cleverley to the tee, as opposed to the touch line hugging wingers.

I'd really have hoped Cleveley would kick on this season but sadly, it's just not happened. He's almost missing that 'x' factor to play for a club like ours. And if Moyes has his way in the transfer market, with the names were linked with, I can't see a future for him here.
 
Stack said:
If you watch Tom, his body position on receiving is 95% of the time set up to go forward, his habit is to receive with a positive touch however he makes quick decisions based on if he thinks a pass is available or not. If not his next option he takes is to look for a quick give and go or to pass and then move to drag a defender away to create a channel for another pass. these are very clear patterns that he does. Unfortunately many on here dont see or understand that. His one big weakness is he doesnt run with the ball enough so he doesnt cause the opposition enough uncertainty about what he is going to do, he can be predictable. if he would run with the ball more he would give the opposition another problem to worry about. However if you put him beside a player such as Mata and Kagawa he can be the player who keeps recirculating the ball to them.
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I like this post, it's something I did wonder about when we signed Mata and before Rooneys injury he was deeper linking play and Cleverley was at that time one if our better performers.
We shall see.
 
@Stack
That's still only a single aspect to have to your game. I agree that he plays well when the whole team plays well and there are options for passing and generally good clever movement, but when we struggle he's a liability. At best I can see him be a squad player, but to be a serious player for a top team you'd need more strings to your bow
 
Stack said:
If you watch Tom, his body position on receiving is 95% of the time set up to go forward, his habit is to receive with a positive touch however he makes quick decisions based on if he thinks a pass is available or not. If not his next option he takes is to look for a quick give and go or to pass and then move to drag a defender away to create a channel for another pass. these are very clear patterns that he does. Unfortunately many on here dont see or understand that. His one big weakness is he doesnt run with the ball enough so he doesnt cause the opposition enough uncertainty about what he is going to do, he can be predictable. if he would run with the ball more he would give the opposition another problem to worry about. However if you put him beside a player such as Mata and Kagawa he can be the player who keeps recirculating the ball to them.
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I agree with the essence of your post but he has more than 1 weakness IMO stack. He doesn't impose himself on a game, defensively he lets runners run off him and he also has the strength of a school boy.
 
I think Cleverly will benefit from having a trust out-ball and a player who finds space in the middle like Mata. He has to take advantage of this chance.
 
Not sure Cleverley will get any more chances barring some major injury issues. He rightly or wrongly had a major chance in that congested set of fixtures, perhaps due to tiredness was found a bit wanting. With Jones, Fellaini, Fletcher and even possibly Rooney, I don't see him getting much of a shot to get a chance to play to his supposed strengths of needing players that will give him quick options when he receives the ball.
 
He'll get the odd game here or there, but he's behind Carrick, Fletcher, Jones and Fellaini in the pecking order now I'd imagine.
 
Looked like he had a kick up the arse last night, played with confidence and didn't dwell on the ball.
 
Slevs said:
Looked like he had a kick up the arse last night, played with confidence and didn't dwell on the ball.
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I honestly can't remember what he did when he came on. Not saying he was bad or anything but a 10 minute sub appearance when the game is already won doesn't really show much.
 
He really shouldn't be behind Jones in the cm pecking order. Jones is not a midfielder. Its obvious in the way he receives the ball.
 
NinjaZombie said:
He really shouldn't be behind Jones in the cm pecking order. Jones is not a midfielder. Its obvious in the way he receives the ball.
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I agree. Even Fergie only preferred Jones there in special circumstances (like to man-mark someone).
Difference for me with Cleverley is the energy and tempo he provides. It's underrated and I know he could be more dominant and more positive in his play at times but I just think we are really static in midfield at times and he helps with that. I don't think it's doing Jones any favours either. He started the season well in CM but I still see him as a centre half and it's really limiting his minutes there.
 
Cleverley only excels when he's surrounded with players close proximity. Long range passing is not his forte, which has been his problem at United with only Carrick in close proximity and our wingers tugging the touchline. He'd likely look a lot better in Barca team than United. That's not to say he's good enough to play for Barcelona.
 
He also needs a runner beside him to cover up when he advances with the ball. As for his passing, we have all seen, albeit intermittently, how well he does when he is surrounded by players on the same wavelength.
 
Sultan said:
Cleverley only excels when he's surrounded with players close proximity. Long range passing is not his forte, which has been his problem at United with only Carrick in close proximity and our wingers tugging the touchline. He'd likely look a lot better in Barca team than United. That's not to say he's good enough to play for Barcelona.
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I have seen plenty of accurate long range passing from Cleverley.
 
If Moyes brings in the two CM that I think we need (and I mean starters, not squad players), then Cleverley will be surplus to requirements. The simple economics mean that players need to leave when these new players come in. Fletcher's return has been a happy surprise and I think that means TC's days are numbered.
 
I'm not sure thats true, theres nothing wrong with Cleverley being a squad player and we're hardly likely to have Giggs, Carrick and Fletcher all being there in next season and the one after. At some point, whether its in a year or 18 months, we'll be happy to have someone like Cleverley as a squad option and he's more likely to have the loyalty to want to play that role than another international player we could get instead of him
 
Ekeke said:
I'm not sure thats true, theres nothing wrong with Cleverley being a squad player and we're hardly likely to have Giggs, Carrick and Fletcher all being there in next season and the one after. At some point, whether its in a year or 18 months, we'll be happy to have someone like Cleverley as a squad option and he's more likely to have the loyalty to want to play that role than another international player we could get instead of him
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And we're hardly likely to have an overload in CM either. If two come in, then we still have Fletch, Carrick and Fellaini. We don't need a 6th one, surely?
 
manusteve said:
And we're hardly likely to have an overload in CM either. If two come in, then we still have Fletch, Carrick and Fellaini. We don't need a 6th one, surely?
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Its been outstanding that Fletcher has come back at all, I cant see us banking on him. In the summer Carrick will be moving towards his final seasons. Fellaini... Needs to prove that he's a footballer... Of some sort of value to us
 
manusteve said:
And we're hardly likely to have an overload in CM either. If two come in, then we still have Fletch, Carrick and Fellaini. We don't need a 6th one, surely?
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Why on Earth would Moyes sign two midfielders? He wanted two, and he's already bought one of them.
 
Yes, hence why he wanted to sign two. One of which he already bought.
 
I know I said I don't think Tom will get many chances till the end of the season but, I do hope he starts with Fletcher on the weekend. With Mata, RVP, Rooney in the lineup - having a player that will be able to get the ball to their feet and also play short quick passes would be far better than Jones charging through with the ball ending up everywhere but at our attackers. Fletcher from the back maybe doesn't quite have the same vision as Carrick but, he certainly can at least keep possession under pressure, make good passes and provide a bit of steel in front of the defense.
 
I'm looking forward to seeing Cleverley playing today in this team. There's a lovely attacking array of talent playing in front of him today and the platform is there for him to shine. I've been a big supporter of him in the past but today he needs to show that he can really step up a gear and provide the link up play to the attackers ahead of him rather than revert to type and play the simple side way passes. There's a lot of competition in the side at the moment so it's up to him to show that he wants to earn his place back.
 
That fwcking chance he missed. Feck him, he deserves to be a squad player forever.
 
Has he played a great game since he got married and had a kid?? No..

Looks like a chav, plays like a chav.. No fight, no passion, no brains.. Well, at least he got his scar to show his mates..
 
The chance he missed wasn't as clear cut as it was made out to be. He had a wall of bodies on the line blocking him but he should have at least hit the target. Apart from that I thought he had a relatively good game. Moved us forward quickly and linked up with Mata and Rooney quite well when they dropped deeper into the middle. I still think too much is asked of him. Rooney wasn't at his best in the middle today and before Carrick went to the back, he also offered very little. Our entire midfield is just toppsy turvy. We lack any serious partnerships and as a result we lack balance in the team.
 
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