Tom Cleverley | 2011/12 Performances

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Yeah its putting a lot of pressure on Cleverley but tbf to him, it seems like him (along with the likes of Welbeck, Jones, Smalling, Evans) all welcome it.

Will be interesting to see how Ando performs once Cleverley is back as well.
 
Anderson and Cleverley are too gung-ho for my liking. Brilliant against the smaller teams though. Against the top 7 or 8, I want to see one of them partnered next to Carrick.

Also, the expectation on him now is absolutely incredible. I can't believe people are pining Cleverley as the man to transform our football into how it was earlier in the season. We're not playing well as a collective result of injuries to key players and suspensions; its not all down to Cleverley. However, I do believe that to play at our fluent best, Nani, Young, Anderson, Welbeck and Rooney all need to be in the pitch. They're abilities are ideal for one-touch and interchanging play.
 
MacMUFC said:
Anderson and Cleverley are too gung-ho for my liking. Brilliant against the smaller teams though. Against the top 7 or 8, I want to see one of them partnered next to Carrick.

Also, the expectation on him now is absolutely incredible. I can't believe people are pining Cleverley as the man to transform our football into how it was earlier in the season. We're not playing well as a collective result of injuries to key players and suspensions; its not all down to Cleverley. However, I do believe that to play at our fluent best, Nani, Young, Anderson, Welbeck and Rooney all need to be in the pitch. They're abilities are ideal for one-touch and interchanging play.
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that has to be a joke...surely!
 
We're going to need at least one midfielder to keep an eye on runners and spend most of his time defending against the best teams.

So I think I see where he's coming from, though I'd rather Anderson and Cleverley split the defensive work down the middle, so either one can take advantage of the space if it's on their side.

I thought Cleverley was quite good against WBA, btw.
 
Its crazy how much hope we've pinned on Cleverly in his absence.
 
It's not just what Cleverly does with the ball, it's his off the ball movement that brings out the best in Ando i think. Always looking for the space, always wanting the ball and likes to play the one touch passing which all Brazilians like.

I agree, too much pressure on Tom, could make or break him.
 
kps88 said:
Its crazy how much hope we've pinned on Cleverly in his absence.
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I agree.

Very good player who's made a very good start to his United career but it seems that some now think he's the answer to all of our problems.

We've made a great start to the season but we're too wide open a lot of the time and allowing teams far too many chances.

I'd still like to see us have someone in the middle who can tackle, but that's just me.
 
He has only himself to blame. If he hadn't shown such good form and slotted straight into the team we wouldn't have to expect more from him. Bloody overperformer.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'd go with that. And if they all play as well as they've played at their best this season we'll win the midfield battle, comfortably.
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Comfortably.

Some supporters have such short (selective) memories. Anderson, Fletcher and Carrick as a trio have put in some seriously top drawer performances for the club.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
I'm desperate to see Anderson and Cleverley play with Carrick.
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That actually sounds like a great trio. Carrick offers a lot defensively and Anderson and cleverly going forwards can create hell for teams.

Only problem is that rooney is at his best dropping deep. If he can somehow do that messi job of creating and scoring from that lone striker role, then it works big time. But I can see us using this only away from home in Europe.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
That actually sounds like a great trio. Carrick offers a lot defensively and Anderson and cleverly going forwards can create hell for teams.

Only problem is that rooney is at his best dropping deep. If he can somehow do that messi job of creating and scoring from that lone striker role, then it works big time. But I can see us using this only away from home in Europe.
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Difficult to do without wide forwards, though, and while Welbeck could easily do that on one side and Nani or Young could realistically do it on the other it's not really in keeping with our style or sticking to our strengths. That's the problem really - strengthen our midfield but lose a fair bit in attack.
 
Walrus said:
He has only himself to blame. If he hadn't shown such good form and slotted straight into the team we wouldn't have to expect more from him. Bloody overperformer.
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This exactly. Looked good in pre season, excellent in the charity shield and a fantastic start to the season. Such a shame we should pin our midfield hopes on a great player.
 
kps88 said:
Its crazy how much hope we've pinned on Cleverly in his absence.
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The lad is being set up for a major fall.

As an Englishman I'd love to see Cleverley become this massive massive player for both club and country, but the unjustified level of praise he's received recently is just crazy. Don't get me wrong, he's done well, better in fact than I would ever have imagined. You'd think from some of the comments that it was Xavi coming back into our team.
 
Brwned said:
Difficult to do without wide forwards, though, and while Welbeck could easily do that on one side and Nani or Young could realistically do it on the other it's not really in keeping with our style or sticking to our strengths. That's the problem really - strengthen our midfield but lose a fair bit in attack.
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Yup. It's an odd one. Theoretically our midfield is made for a 433 and our attack for a 442. Actually more our strikers, with our attack looking best with Rooney dropping deep and Hernandez/Welbeck running the channels and playing furthest forwards. Technically, Nani, Welbeck and Young could make very good 'wide forwards'. But it really isn't the United way for wide players to play that way.

So yeah, I agree with that. And I think Fergie would prefer keeping our ethos the same even if it means the midfield wouldn't be as strong as it could be in the present and at the same time working for it to improve in those circumstances, rather than the other way round.
 
We're at our best with Rooney behind a striker, he does brilliant even with a weaker midfield and makes the team play better. With a better midfield giving Rooney the ball even more, it would be very interesting. We've seen what can happen early in the season when our midfield has played very well.
 
Garethw said:
The lad is being set up for a major fall.

As an Englishman I'd love to see Cleverley become this massive massive player for both club and country, but the unjustified level of praise he's received recently is just crazy. Don't get me wrong, he's done well, better in fact than I would ever have imagined. You'd think from some of the comments that it was Xavi coming back into our team.
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Have you seen how our midfield has become more pedestrian than last season? Anyone who can pass a ball to a player in red is more than welcome in my eyes.
 
Garethw said:
The lad is being set up for a major fall.

As an Englishman I'd love to see Cleverley become this massive massive player for both club and country, but the unjustified level of praise he's received recently is just crazy. Don't get me wrong, he's done well, better in fact than I would ever have imagined. You'd think from some of the comments that it was Xavi coming back into our team.
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Such an overreaction. He's a young player that people are excited about. Jones has an even greater hype about him. I find it odd when people complain about such things. Do you expect people not to be excited by a young talented football who performs beyond expectations? It's human nature. Individuals can keep things in perspective, masses never will.

As for the Xavi comment, it's natural that when an area that has been a perceived weaknesses looks so stunningly good early on when a combination was used, that people would be dying for that combination to be reignited. Do I think the Anderson-Cleverley partnership is the sole key for all the sexy football we played? Obviously not. Do I understand people's thoughts on it? Of course. The football was on a different level in terms of it's appeal to any I've seen from any team this season.
 
unitedbhoy said:
Yes, but every single player was great in that game. But, yes, Carrick perform outstanding in that match.
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Aye. Wasn't trying to be rude there - was just highlighting the vast difference in performance between the Roma game and that one the other day. I am agreeing with the consensus, essentially. Scoring 2 excellent goals and being very confident in possession (and defensively sound) is what I'd call an outstanding performance in central midfield.

Not losing the ball a lot and passing the ball forward consistently (whilst being part of a fairly poor midfield performance as a team) is not what I'd call outstanding. That's to be expected.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He played just as well against Basle as he did against Roma. The goal being the only obvious difference to his individual performance. The other important difference being the difference in the level of performance from the rest of our team (and the opposition!).

He was similarly excellent against Schalke last season actually. Purely in terms of his own individual performance there's not a lot to choose between those three games.
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2 goals, one of which being a complete moment of magic.

That's quite a difference in performance level, especially given the calibre of the two goals. That was an outstanding Carrick performance.

Outstanding is the sort of tag you'd give to a 9 or 10 out of 10 performance. Something along the lines of what Xavi would put in when he's on his game, for example. Carrick was good in possession, but it's not like we saw him massively assert himself. He wasn't splitting defences, driving at other midfielders, or putting in absolutely mind-blowing defensive performances in the centre of the park (obviously, given the 3 goals conceeded and his position much higher up the pitch).

We must just have different definitions of what being outstanding entails.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'd go with that. And if they all play as well as they've played at their best this season we'll win the midfield battle, comfortably.
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I'd hope so. Only worry is that's not a very creative midfield, and when Rooney is used as a lone striker he can't ping his best balls and create the little moments of magic we've been seeing this season. We'll be very reliant on Young and Nani to provide the sparks.

Still, the midfield should prevail over Liverpools but we have been overwhelmed by them in the past.
 
KingEric7 said:
Aye. Wasn't trying to be rude there - was just highlighting the vast difference in performance between the Roma game and that one the other day. I am agreeing with the consensus, essentially. Scoring 2 excellent goals and being very confident in possession (and defensively sound) is what I'd call an outstanding performance in central midfield.

Not losing the ball a lot and passing the ball forward consistently (whilst being part of a fairly poor midfield performance as a team) is not what I'd call outstanding. That's to be expected.
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Re your second para, that's a very inaccurate summary of what he did on the night. It's also clearly not "to be expected" as it was his best performance of the season. One of the best individual performances of any of our central midfielders this season.
 
Can't see him going straight back into the team against the ultimate midfield game raisers in Liverpool. Lucas prob dominate and be hailed as the greatest ever again. Don't know if I even see Anderson starting......but then again, I didn't see starting nearly ever game this year, keeping him in there is just what he's needed really, to keep getting starts big match or not and not being dropped instantly for the next 3 games because of a bad game.
 
cina said:
I'd hope so. Only worry is that's not a very creative midfield, and when Rooney is used as a lone striker he can't ping his best balls and create the little moments of magic we've been seeing this season. We'll be very reliant on Young and Nani to provide the sparks.

Still, the midfield should prevail over Liverpools but we have been overwhelmed by them in the past.
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Am not sure i want rooney playing alone upfront tbh. he tends to stay out of the game for large periods and gets frustrated very quickly. for that to work, young and nani, as you rightly said, will have to have very good games and make sure we keep rooney involved.

Thats the whole conundrum with our team atm, our strikers are suited for a 4-4-2 and our midfield for a 4-3-3. Welbeck/hernandez with rooney looks like the way to go but ando and cleverley at anfield would be a huge gamble. knowing SAF though, i think we'l go with the 4-4-2 again. If rooney drops back enough like he always does, i still think we're good enough to pull it off.

a midfield of lucas adam/henderson and gerrard against anderson cleverley and rooney should be in our favor i feel if rooney contributes in the center.
 
Commadus said:
Carrick neither a defensive midfielder in the Makelel class or a deep lying creative mdifielder in the Pirlo class - hes a bit of both really - a class below Xabi Alonso.
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He can't do either role very well IMO. Ive nothing against him though.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Re your second para, that's a very inaccurate summary of what he did on the night. It's also clearly not "to be expected" as it was his best performance of the season. One of the best individual performances of any of our central midfielders this season.
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I dunno; it must be one of those agree to disagree moments. I wouldn't say any one of our midfielders has put in an outstanding performance yet. I think that sort of level of performance against Basle is to be expected from someone who's been playing here for 5 years.

On the topic of Cleverley, I'm already missing watcing him play. The pressure on him is already enormous, but he just seems to have this incredible determination to be absolutely top draw.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Re your second para, that's a very inaccurate summary of what he did on the night. It's also clearly not "to be expected" as it was his best performance of the season. One of the best individual performances of any of our central midfielders this season.
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:lol:
 
So unless the team wins like 5-0, an individual who has excelled in everything he's asked to do in his role and more cannot be described as having a great performance?

Seems to be the gist of this.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Some posts don't deserve rebuttals. Well done, me.
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If you want to be a dick then, sure, no need to debate. Well done you, indeed.

Alternatively, take the non-dick option and name the list of central midfield performances that confirm Carrick's performance against Basle wasn't 'one of' the best so far this season?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
If you want to be a dick then, sure, no need to debate. Well done you, indeed.

Alternatively, take the non-dick option and name the list of central midfield performances that confirm Carrick's performance against Basle wasn't 'one of' the best so far this season?
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That part of the post was simply laughable. I'd have to state the obvious to tell you why. Figure it out yourself. Things worth debating and things not and all that. Maybe you find some of my opinions laughable. Totally fair enough.
 
sajeev said:
so when are you getting the 'Carrick's wife' tagline off Mozza?
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Another cracking addition to the debate.

Seriously, can any of you gimps start coming up with this long list of superior performances in central midfield that I seem to have forgotten?

Neither Anderson nor Cleverly excelled against Spurs - last 30 minutes aside - and they didn't particularly impress against WBA.

Arsenal game would be up there but if Carrick is going to be crucified for allowing Basle score two goals against us, why are Anderson and Cleverley completely blame free for Arsenal doing the same (and missing a penalty) in a match where Arsenal were so utterly abject? FWIW, I would say that both Cleverley and Anderson did play well in that game. Not significantly better than Carrick did against Basle, mind you.

Anderson was very good against Bolton IMO. That would definitely be up there.

After that? I dunno. Purely in terms of an individual performance, Carrick's would have to be right up there. Just bad luck for him that it came on a day when so many others didn't do their jobs properly.
 
Oh and here's some stats to back up my opinion. If you don't like stats, ignore them. Whatever. I think they support my opinion, as the number and accuracy of passes Carrick made against Basle fit with the idea of a very influential individual performance in midfield. If you want to discount them then that's fine. My opinion stands.

For Cleverley/Anderson I've only done pass completion - as the Guardian chalkboard doesn't break down passes according to the direction they were made:

KM said:
Micheal Carrick against Basle

Michael Carrick Successful Pass Rate: 97% (76/78), (40/41 Forward, 28/28 Backward, 13/14 Square) Attacking 3rd Pass Rate: 100% (28/28)
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Arsenal game:
Cleverley = 62/69
Anderson = 38/48

WBA:
Cleverley = 58/64
Anderson = 55/59

Tottenham
Cleverley = 30/35
Anderson = 44/50

Bolton
Anderson = 66/81

Didn't include Fletcher as I don't think he's had any game which would go down as one of the best individual central midfield performances of the season so far.
 
I wish the Carrick Pogue watches actually played for us.


ESPN rated him 5 out of 10.

Editorial | Man United vs Basel Player Ratings | ESPNSTAR.com

Goal.com rated him 4.5 out of 10.

Manchester United vs Basel Player Ratings - Goal.com

SportSkeeda rated him 5 out of 10.

Manchester United vs FC Basel: Player Ratings «

Bleacherreport gave him 3.5 out of 10.

Manchester United vs FC Basel: Player Ratings «

5 out of 10.

UEFA.com - UEFA Champions League - Player Rater - Man. United vs Basel


If that was "one of the best individual performances of any of our central midfielders this season" then we are fecked.
 
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