Tom Cleverley | 2011/12 Performances

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Pogue Mahone said:
It's mental, it really is.

That said, I'd really like to see how he does in the role Giggs played last night. I think he'd be great if he had the freedom to really press on and focus on linking up with the front three.
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Certainly would. In a 2 man midfield with Anderson, he can't go all out like that because obviously Anderson isn't a very defensively minded midfielder himself.

I think he lacks the creativity Giggs has in that role but his quick passing and dribbling skills would work well there, and I think he'd link up well with Rooney, who as we saw was left isolated at times last night.
 
I think to get a draw over there, we were better off with Fletcher and Carrick than we would have been with Anderson and Cleverley. Even though Fletcher and Carrick were pretty poor on the night, they are going to be a lot better defensively than the other two.

Cleverley's speed on the ball was missed, as was Anderson's, but the team was set up to do a job and it was done. Good result.

He has started the season off very well though. I think he will be rotated with Fletcher and Carrick throughout the season. At the moment, Anderson is playing even better and deserves to be the first choice, in my honest opinion.
 
Brwned said:
We get a good draw in our toughest game of the group and all you have is threads being bumped to moan, about players we've missed or players that aren't good enough. Mental. It's like we've never played a tough away game before. Will be interesting to see later in the season when we have a tough CL away and don't play mesmerising football even with these players we're seemingly lost without.
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"Come back asap".... Yup a truly disgusting moan from me isnt it. WIshing a young player of us who helped us to play exciting football this season to come back soon.

Get a grip the lot of you it's not even funny anymore.
 
Godfather said:
"Come back asap".... Yup a truly disgusting moan from me isnt it. WIshing a young player of us who helped us to play exciting football this season to come back soon.

Get a grip the lot of you it's not even funny anymore.
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Nothing wrong wishing a young footballer to come back from injury.

However, it was the timing of your post which pretty much implied either Cleverley would have made a difference to the outcome of the game or Carrick and Fletcher were not up to standard on the night.
 
Name Changed said:
I think to get a draw over there, we were better off with Fletcher and Carrick than we would have been with Anderson and Cleverley. Even though Fletcher and Carrick were pretty poor on the night, they are going to be a lot better defensively than the other two.

Cleverley's speed on the ball was missed, as was Anderson's, but the team was set up to do a job and it was done. Good result.....
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Personally I'd say above all, the match fitness of our starting midfield 4 was badly missed. The midfield we used looked truly rusty and not match fit and it showed all game long. They did brilliantly IMO to force a draw. At full fitness IMO they'd have wiped the floor with Benfica.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Personally I'd say above all, the match fitness of our starting midfield 4 was badly missed. The midfield we used looked truly rusty and not match fit and it showed all game long. They did brilliantly IMO to force a draw. At full fitness IMO they'd have wiped the floor with Benfica.
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Aye, I concur.
 
Some people need 100 games to settle down and some don't. That's life. He just slotted in and looks comfortable. In a position, that many people didn't think he could handle. It's early day but that's just how it is. I hope we don't lose our passing because the way we were passing/supporting the ball, we need to maintain that
 
Fergie had the more important Chelsea game in his mind. We got a good result in Benfica and some key players got a rest. So for me, all fine, as long as we are ready and fresh for Sunday
 
Sultan said:
Nothing wrong wishing a young footballer to come back from injury.

However, it was the timing of your post which pretty much implied either Cleverley would have made a difference to the outcome of the game or Carrick and Fletcher were not up to standard on the night.
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Well of course both Carrick and Fletcher weren't up to standard. And yes my post may have been a bit knee-jerk.
But this bitching around is just ridiculous.
 
I don't see why you're allowed to moan but I'm not allowed to moan (about moaning). It's not anything new or fuelled by recent events, I find constant negativity pointless and completely ridiculous given since I've been here we've won 3 league titles, won a Champions League and got to two CL finals (in the space of four years), and yet the vast majority of the posts on here in that time have been complaining...it doesn't make any sense to me. Now, noodle says there's two things that football supporters are good at and one of them is complaining, so feel free to think I don't understand the essence of a football supporter but it's not really going to stop me finding people complaining constantly about the slightest imperfections a little silly. It's not bitching it's just venting, I guess, in the same way that me moaning about the moaners isn't going to stop them from moaning...it's a vicious circle. But it's nothing new.
 
Brwned said:
I don't see why you're allowed to moan but I'm not allowed to moan (about moaning). It's not anything new, I find constant negativity pointless and completely ridiculous given since I've been here we've won 3 league titles, won a Champions League and got to two CL finals, and yet the vast majority of the posts on here in that time have been complaining...it doesn't make any sense to me. Now, noodle says there's two things that football supporters are good at and one of them is complaining, so feel free to think I don't understand the essence of a football supporter but it's not really going to stop me finding people complaining constantly about the slightest imperfections a little silly. It's not bitching it's just venting, I guess, in the same way that me moaning about the moaners isn't going to stop them from moaning...it's a vicious circle. But it's nothing new.
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It wasnt moaning though.
I want him back because with him and Anderson in the side we've played fantastic football this season, more exciting than what we have seen for a long time now.
See, I'm not talking about success, I'm talking about offensive, exciting football to watch.

And yes it may have been a bit knee jerk as I've mentioned.
 
Boss said:
All I know is, I would hate to see this place when/if we lose this season. It would trump all reactions from previous seasons.

Redcafe goes into meltdown indeed.
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Why should it. It has always been like that. We play shit and complain about it and others will complain about the complainers. Nothing worrying, just natural for a football fan. It's often knee jerk reactions but as long as it doesnt get excessive there's nothing wrong with it imo.
 
Godfather said:
Why should it. It has always been like that. We play shit and complain about it and others will complain about the complainers. Nothing worrying, just natural for a football fan. It's often knee jerk reactions but as long as it doesnt get excessive there's nothing wrong with it imo.
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We didn't play shhit though. We got a good result as it was the toughest fixture in the group. I don't see why we're expected to go to Benfica and destroy them. They are a very good side and we did well given the circumstances.

I also believe some of the reactions on here has been excessive, lads were rating Carrick 3 and 4. I mean when we do actually lose it's going to be hell on here.
 
Godfather said:
It wasnt moaning though.
I want him back because with him and Anderson in the side we've played fantastic football this season, more exciting than what we have seen for a long time now.
See, I'm not talking about success, I'm talking about offensive, exciting football to watch.

And yes it may have been a bit knee jerk as I've mentioned.
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Yes, and I can guarantee everyone loves offensive, exciting football, and that this start of the season will likely stay long in the memory of United fans (just as 06/07 will), but it's the fact that if we don't play beautiful football it's immediately crisis time, start blaming everyone in sight, start worrying about how long it'll last before some players ruin the good football, start worrying if we're already over-reliant on so and so...the moment we don't play wonderful football, people complain. It's completely unrealistic to have the expectation to play beautiful football in every game, regardless of who plays. In every season without fail we will have some uninspiring games, we'll have months lacking exciting football entirely...as will every team. Even the greatest team of all time™, Barcelona, have had uninspiring starts in two successive seasons, or even the great 1970 Brazil side which was voted the best team of all time had tough games - they really struggled against England, which accounts for 1/6 of their tournament that they built their name on.

Unrealistic expectations are complaint-worthy, in my view. I don't expect many to share it. My post wasn't aimed at you, it came following Carrick bashing, Evans bashing, Giggs bashing, Fletcher bashing, Sir Alex bashing for changing too much...I could've just as easily put it in the Anderson or Carrick thread, it was a general point not a specific one.
 
Brwned said:
Yes, and I can guarantee everyone loves offensive, exciting football, and that this start of the season will likely stay long in the memory of United fans (just as 06/07 will), but it's the fact that if we don't play beautiful football it's immediately crisis time, start blaming everyone in sight, start worrying about how long it'll last before some players ruin the good football, start worrying if we're already over-reliant on so and so...the moment we don't play wonderful football, people complain. It's completely unrealistic to have the expectation to play beautiful football in every game, regardless of who plays. In every season without fail we will have some uninspiring games, we'll have months lacking exciting football entirely...as will every team. Even the greatest team of all time™, Barcelona, have had uninspiring starts in two successive seasons, or even the great 1970 Brazil side which was voted the best team of all time had tough games - they really struggled against England, which accounts for 1/6 of their tournament that they built their name on.

Unrealistic expectations are complaint-worthy, in my view. I don't expect many to share it. My post wasn't aimed at you, it came following Carrick bashing, Evans bashing, Giggs bashing, Fletcher bashing, Sir Alex bashing for changing too much...I could've just as easily put it in the Anderson or Carrick thread, it was a general point not a specific one.
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I don't know why we are actually debating this as there is absolutely nothing I disagree with in your post.

I'm not a saint. I'll have my fair amount of moans throughout a season and as will most of us on here. But I agree that when people start overdoing it that it becomes silly especially considering the success we've had.
 
A return in some form for United's trip to Anfield to take on bitter foes Liverpool on 15th October is a probable scenario, but that schedule would also rule him out of England's important final Euro 2012 qualifier in Montenegro on 7th October.
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Sorry but feck England, make sure he's 100% ready for United first.
 
Cannot wait until hes back :cool: Should be available for Liverpool (along with Smalling)

Granted his stock may have risen even more in his abscence but the pace of our attack is not as predictable with him due to his ability to turn either way with the ball as well as play one twos. Not only that but can carry the ball, he links well with Welbeck and he is Andos best midfield partner.
 
I doubt he would have significantly changed our performance today but he did strike a good partnership with Anderson which had a different fluidity to it than others. But as I said, you can't have 9 or 10 players underperforming and expect one to magically improve the side. We'll be better than today in the future and it will be because the team as a whole will play better.
 
No doubt. Thing about him is he puts himself about as well. Im not sure whats happend to Fletcher ??? We arent seeing the one that was closing down the opposition a few years ago and then giving it to others.

Thats why I also mentioned Smalling. Another one we miss, but for our midfield, the first few matches with Cleverley there was more pace and less long balls or standing on the ball allowing the opposition to get back in numbers before trying something.

Has the illness affected him that much?

Edit: Also Young who was out of the team today.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I doubt he would have significantly changed our performance today but he did strike a good partnership with Anderson which had a different fluidity to it than others. But as I said, you can't have 9 or 10 players underperforming and expect one to magically improve the side. We'll be better than today in the future and it will be because the team as a whole will play better.
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true, alot underperformed but it would've been good to just see cleverleys movement, picking the ball up higher up the pitch and making one twos with ease, we missed that today, far too sloppy.... can't always rely on rooney having to drop into midfield and make things happen to have a good game, sometimes he just won't be at the races
 
Fletcher's Jilted Lover said:
true, alot underperformed but it would've been good to just see cleverleys movement, picking the ball up higher up the pitch and making one twos with ease, we missed that today, far too sloppy.... can't always rely on rooney having to drop into midfield and make things happen to have a good game, sometimes he just won't be at the races
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Yeah but today almost noone was at the races. Rooney, Hernandez, Nani and Park all had poor games. I do think Cleverley and Anderson would start right now together if the former was fit. They suit each others games superbly. But it's a team game and when you're whole front 4 (wide players and strikers) are having stinkers, there's no all that much the central midfielders can do.
 
He wouldnt have made much of a difference today. rooney hernandez nani park all had poor games. there's not much a midfielder can do to make them play to their usual standards. our problems were in the final third of the pitch. the final ball just wouldnt come off.
 
Keeps the ball and moves it about more sensibly than Anderson. I think we'd have lost the ball in silly areas less and our wingers would have been given the ball in the final third more often with Cleverley on the pitch today and playing like he started the season. He also has a good cross on him so he'd be another player with good delivery in the team, which is especially useful if Park is on one of the wings
 
I think we missed Cleverly more than anybody else this season...

We strangely lost our strength in midfield after he was injured. Wouldn't have though his absence would have so much impact..
 
Kraftwerker said:
But putting Cleverley, Vidic and Smalling in the team will have an impact.

That's a quarter of a team and have all been impressive performers.
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Been thinking that too. When are they all back ?

Sometimes the doubter in me thinks about Hargreaves' comments.. Could it really be true that our meds are not up to the mark? Almost every season we seem to have a B team that would make the top 6, sitting on the treatment table.
 
iAm20Legend said:
Been thinking that too. When are they all back ?

Sometimes the doubter in me thinks about Hargreaves' comments.. Could it really be true that our meds are not up to the mark? Almost every season we seem to have a B team that would make the top 6, sitting on the treatment table.
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I'm sure our meds are more than up to the mark. Hargreaves was always going to recover (as i said in the Hargreaves thread). We just had to move on at some point.
 
It has felt like a lot longer than 3 weeks, but Cleverley is right on schedule with his comeback.

I can't wait, I think he's going to click with Anderson again right away. They both seem very passionate for the game, i think they'll continue to get better throughout their careers, hopefully together.

It will certainly interesting if we get someone out of Pogba, Tunnicliffe, Petrucci and Morrison to be a top midfielder for us, we might get back to playing more 433.
 
It was always going to happen but it's hilarious the way Cleverley's gone from a squad player at best to irreplaceable, all in the space of a couple of minutes over two league games. Knee Jerkus Maximus.

It's all the more strange considering the problems we've had in recent games - with opposing teams getting far too many chances to shoot or run at our back four - were just as much a feature of the games he did play in. It seems to have slipped the collective memory that Spurs bossed midfield against us for a good hour in their game. They had more possession than us for the whole of the first half. At Old Trafford. Even without Modric and Parker.

Even in the Arsenal massacre (against another makeshift midfield) we conceded a ridiculous amount of decent chances for them to score. Could easily have shipped 3 or 4 goals in that game.

I really rate Cleverley. I think he's a very talented young player with a brilliant attitude. I'm fairly confident (but not yet 100% convinced) that at the end of this season he'll have nailed down a place in our central midfield for the foreseeable future. I also think, however, he's still a work in progress and I have serious doubts about how well a partnership of Cleverley and Anderson will cope against quality opposition. I certainly don't think the resumption of their midfield partnership will be the magical cure to all our woes that a lot of people seem to think it will be.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It was always going to happen but it's hilarious the way Cleverley's gone from a squad player at best to irreplaceable, all in the space of a couple of minutes over two league games. Knee Jerkus Maximus.

It's all the more strange considering the problems we've had in recent games - with opposing teams getting far too many chances to shoot or run at our back four - were just as much a feature of the games he did play in. It seems to have slipped the collective memory that Spurs bossed midfield against us for a good hour in their game. They had more possession than us for the whole of the first half. At Old Trafford. Even without Modric and Parker.

Even in the Arsenal massacre (against another makeshift midfield) we conceded a ridiculous amount of decent chances for them to score. Could easily have shipped 3 or 4 goals in that game.

I really rate Cleverley. I think he's a very talented young player with a brilliant attitude. I'm fairly confident (but not yet 100% convinced) that at the end of this season he'll have nailed down a place in our central midfield for the foreseeable future. I also think, however, he's still a work in progress and I have serious doubts about how well a partnership of Cleverley and Anderson will cope against quality opposition. I certainly don't think the resumption of their midfield partnership will be the magical cure to all our woes that a lot of people seem to think it will be.
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I agree with most of this. The thing that gets me though is why with us spending 50 mil did we not get a serious CM. There was no guarantees Clev was going to slot in so well. Then what?

I think his energy is a massive boost for the squad. I noticed as soon as Carrick went in for him our off the ball forward movement just dissappeared in the center of the pitch. Still for the Basel game and a few others I can think of a certain Dutch fellow I would not have minded ;).
 
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