That's an odd story. I never knew that loan deals counted in those 'percentage of future fee' type clauses you hear about. It sounds a bit like they are trying to grab a bit of money over a technicality. Anyway I'm sure we'll manage to stay afloat!
Tom Cleverley | 2011/12 Performances
- Thread starter #07
- Start date
- Status
Football premier-league: Exclusive - Martinez tips 'special' Cleverley to star for Man United | Radio talkSPORT
Nice quote from the piece:
That, to me, is the key of what makes me so confident that Cleverley will do the business for us. If Ronaldinho had Cleverley's attitude he would've gone down in history as perhaps the greatest player ever. What Tom lacks in natural talent he makes up in application and intelligence. He's not a Ronaldinho, never will be, never could be in terms of raw footballing talent but boy does Cleverley work hard and understand what it takes to improve. I've said it before and I'll say it again when you've got that in your makeup, that will to work and that ability to learn, you can't help but succeed.
Nice quote from the piece:
That, to me, is the key of what makes me so confident that Cleverley will do the business for us. If Ronaldinho had Cleverley's attitude he would've gone down in history as perhaps the greatest player ever. What Tom lacks in natural talent he makes up in application and intelligence. He's not a Ronaldinho, never will be, never could be in terms of raw footballing talent but boy does Cleverley work hard and understand what it takes to improve. I've said it before and I'll say it again when you've got that in your makeup, that will to work and that ability to learn, you can't help but succeed.
Hype's getting silly now
He wasn't that good against City. He was tidy. He's a great lad and he's getting better and better, but there'll be plenty of times this season where he's not in the game, at which point let's all try not to turn on him and decide he's shit, eh?
Theyre clutching at straws it seems really.
Hype's getting silly now
He wasn't that good against City. He was tidy. He's a great lad and he's getting better and better, but there'll be plenty of times this season where he's not in the game, at which point let's all try not to turn on him and decide he's shit, eh?
This.
Hype's getting silly now
He wasn't that good against City. He was tidy. He's a great lad and he's getting better and better, but there'll be plenty of times this season where he's not in the game, at which point let's all try not to turn on him and decide he's shit, eh?
He's a long long way to go.
Patience is definately needed.
I'm surprised that agreements between clubs and involving money are even allowed for 12 year olds. Why can't they switch teams and clubs whenever they want? Are 12 year olds the subjects of legally enforcable contracts? It doesn't say much for Bradford that they are trying to make money off the success a player that left them when he was so young.
Pecking orders exist only between players already at the club, and they are never static, all you have to do is look at how quickly Chicharito rearranged the pecking order of our strikers within half a season. Furthermore, someone new can come to the club and immediately have better chemistry with 1 player over all the others, and if that turns out to be a winning formula then that is the new pecking order, we have no idea of knowing at this point how the chemistry will change should sneijder arrive, the pecking order you're talking about has yet to be decided
Nah think he is more suited to the team than Gibson and not often we will have everyone fit, plus for large parts of the season we will likely be having three games a week where Giggs will be rested in one or two and also in some of the games choosing 3 of those midfielders I think there is plenty of chances for someone like Cleverley to get much needed game time even if we do sign someone like sneijder.
Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | Sport | Football
Tom Cleverley doesn't have a weakness according to Roberto Martinez
Friday August 12,2011
By Matthew Dunn
TOM CLEVERLEY celebrates his 22nd birthday today but Roberto Martinez, the man who nurtured him into a Premier League player, is at a loss as to what to give a man who has everything.
Wigan boss Martinez had United’s young starlet at the DW Stadium throughout last season and, against the backdrop of the club’s relegation scrap, lifted him from obscurity and into Fabio Capello’s England squad for the cancelled friendly against Holland on Wednesday.
Martinez is a great believer in developing youth at Wigan by ironing out weaknesses – but he was astounded to discover that, however hard he looked, he was not able to find any.
“I don’t think Tom has a weakness,” he said.
“Sometimes you want to identify weaknesses to help a player cover them up in a game so they are not exposed.
“Tom has tremendous stamina. Tactically, he understands the game as well as I have seen from a young man. He is also a good finisher and scored four goals.
“He has got himself many good opportunities, he has had assists and can see the game. He is dangerous in the last third and he has great technical ability. I could not fault him. In that respect, he was a joy to work with.
“That said, you rarely get the full package. But on top of his football ability, the mental side is probably Tom’s main strength. You are talking about a unique character.”
Until Sir Alex Ferguson has him back under his wing for a little longer, Martinez probably knows Cleverley’s game as well as anybody. But even he was amazed at his mature performances in recent games for United.
“With his technical ability, he could have been brought up in Holland or Spain,” said Martinez.
“And tactically he is one of the most clever players I have ever worked with. He can play in different positions and do different jobs. But even I was surprised in the Community Shield when he played in a central role.
“I know how much he can affect games but coming on for United and doing so well was a surprise. His mentality is the real strength of Tom.
“No doubt the bigger challenge, the bigger the achievement.
“It is difficult in the Premier League to find a player at his age who thinks as clearly as he does. He loves the game and he is refreshing.
“It is like going back 20 years and finding a player who just loves playing football.”
Cleverley’s United team-mate Michael Carrick agrees with Martinez, but warned the young pretender that he is ready to fight off the challenge for his midfield place at Old Trafford.
“He’s a big talent but, not only that, mentally he’s also spot on,” said Carrick.
“His attitude is first class. He listens, he works hard and his only focus is football and how to improve. He has a massive chance of being one of the best.” Cleverley’s emergence has spiced up competition for places, with Anderson, Darren Fletcher, Ryan Giggs, Ji-Sung Park, Darron Gibson and Carrick giving Ferguson plenty of midfield options, despite United ending their interest in summer target Wesley Sneijder.
So, despite having picked up four championship medals in five seasons with United, Carrick knows he cannot rest on past glories.
He said: “It’s a clean slate now.
“There is always competition for places here, that’s what makes it so great.
“We have had a bit of a turn-around with the playing staff and we have a young squad. I’m not fearful of that at all, I embrace it.”
And Carrick believes United will adapt and adjust to the void left by the retired Paul Scholes.
“It’s not so much replacing him, you’ve just got to move on and adapt,” he said. “We’ve done it over the years.
“When Cristiano Ronaldo left three years ago, everyone said, ‘How do you replace him?’. But we didn’t replace him like-for-like, we moved on and adapted – and we were still successful.”
Inter Milan chief executive Ernesto Paolillio, meanwhile, says they intend to keep Sneijder but are happy to sell striker Samuel Eto’o to Russian club Anzhi Makhachkala,
“Eto’o will be sold but Sneijder won’t be,” he said
Tom Cleverley doesn't have a weakness according to Roberto Martinez
Friday August 12,2011
By Matthew Dunn
TOM CLEVERLEY celebrates his 22nd birthday today but Roberto Martinez, the man who nurtured him into a Premier League player, is at a loss as to what to give a man who has everything.
Wigan boss Martinez had United’s young starlet at the DW Stadium throughout last season and, against the backdrop of the club’s relegation scrap, lifted him from obscurity and into Fabio Capello’s England squad for the cancelled friendly against Holland on Wednesday.
Martinez is a great believer in developing youth at Wigan by ironing out weaknesses – but he was astounded to discover that, however hard he looked, he was not able to find any.
“I don’t think Tom has a weakness,” he said.
“Sometimes you want to identify weaknesses to help a player cover them up in a game so they are not exposed.
“Tom has tremendous stamina. Tactically, he understands the game as well as I have seen from a young man. He is also a good finisher and scored four goals.
“He has got himself many good opportunities, he has had assists and can see the game. He is dangerous in the last third and he has great technical ability. I could not fault him. In that respect, he was a joy to work with.
“That said, you rarely get the full package. But on top of his football ability, the mental side is probably Tom’s main strength. You are talking about a unique character.”
Until Sir Alex Ferguson has him back under his wing for a little longer, Martinez probably knows Cleverley’s game as well as anybody. But even he was amazed at his mature performances in recent games for United.
“With his technical ability, he could have been brought up in Holland or Spain,” said Martinez.
“And tactically he is one of the most clever players I have ever worked with. He can play in different positions and do different jobs. But even I was surprised in the Community Shield when he played in a central role.
“I know how much he can affect games but coming on for United and doing so well was a surprise. His mentality is the real strength of Tom.
“No doubt the bigger challenge, the bigger the achievement.
“It is difficult in the Premier League to find a player at his age who thinks as clearly as he does. He loves the game and he is refreshing.
“It is like going back 20 years and finding a player who just loves playing football.”
Cleverley’s United team-mate Michael Carrick agrees with Martinez, but warned the young pretender that he is ready to fight off the challenge for his midfield place at Old Trafford.
“He’s a big talent but, not only that, mentally he’s also spot on,” said Carrick.
“His attitude is first class. He listens, he works hard and his only focus is football and how to improve. He has a massive chance of being one of the best.” Cleverley’s emergence has spiced up competition for places, with Anderson, Darren Fletcher, Ryan Giggs, Ji-Sung Park, Darron Gibson and Carrick giving Ferguson plenty of midfield options, despite United ending their interest in summer target Wesley Sneijder.
So, despite having picked up four championship medals in five seasons with United, Carrick knows he cannot rest on past glories.
He said: “It’s a clean slate now.
“There is always competition for places here, that’s what makes it so great.
“We have had a bit of a turn-around with the playing staff and we have a young squad. I’m not fearful of that at all, I embrace it.”
And Carrick believes United will adapt and adjust to the void left by the retired Paul Scholes.
“It’s not so much replacing him, you’ve just got to move on and adapt,” he said. “We’ve done it over the years.
“When Cristiano Ronaldo left three years ago, everyone said, ‘How do you replace him?’. But we didn’t replace him like-for-like, we moved on and adapted – and we were still successful.”
Inter Milan chief executive Ernesto Paolillio, meanwhile, says they intend to keep Sneijder but are happy to sell striker Samuel Eto’o to Russian club Anzhi Makhachkala,
“Eto’o will be sold but Sneijder won’t be,” he said
well I'm not going along with the nervous Nellies - this lad is the biz. Ciddy were committed enough at Wembley and wee're talking about the team many are expecting to be our biggest threat. Hope he plays at the weekend
In terms of experience I'd agree. However, I'm not sure we have a pecking order at United any more Rood. With the emergence of Smalling and Jones even Rio and Vidic' will have to watch over their shoulders. Although it was just the one game, I was most impressed with the energy Cleverley introduced to the middle of the pitch. Something we have lacked for a number of years.
Cleverley's best attribute: The positions he takes up are different from the rest of our midfielders.
He emerges both centrally and wide, and seems very confident taking on players. Cleverly is able to make that quick decision to play a one-two while running full speed; An attribute that has been absent from the United midfield for some time now. I attribute some of his meteoric rise to the fact he offers us something new.
He emerges both centrally and wide, and seems very confident taking on players. Cleverly is able to make that quick decision to play a one-two while running full speed; An attribute that has been absent from the United midfield for some time now. I attribute some of his meteoric rise to the fact he offers us something new.
Early days yet. etc.
I knew there was a reason why I liked Tom. Shares my birthday 
Officially my favourite young player now! Happy birthday Tom, we expect big things from you this season! No pressure
Officially my favourite young player now! Happy birthday Tom, we expect big things from you this season! No pressure
Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | Sport | Football
Tom Cleverley doesn't have a weakness according to Roberto Martinez
Friday August 12,2011
By Matthew Dunn
TOM CLEVERLEY celebrates his 22nd birthday today but Roberto Martinez, the man who nurtured him into a Premier League player, is at a loss as to what to give a man who has everything.
Wigan boss Martinez had United’s young starlet at the DW Stadium throughout last season and, against the backdrop of the club’s relegation scrap, lifted him from obscurity and into Fabio Capello’s England squad for the cancelled friendly against Holland on Wednesday.
Martinez is a great believer in developing youth at Wigan by ironing out weaknesses – but he was astounded to discover that, however hard he looked, he was not able to find any.
“I don’t think Tom has a weakness,” he said.
“Sometimes you want to identify weaknesses to help a player cover them up in a game so they are not exposed.
“Tom has tremendous stamina. Tactically, he understands the game as well as I have seen from a young man. He is also a good finisher and scored four goals.
“He has got himself many good opportunities, he has had assists and can see the game. He is dangerous in the last third and he has great technical ability. I could not fault him. In that respect, he was a joy to work with.
“That said, you rarely get the full package. But on top of his football ability, the mental side is probably Tom’s main strength. You are talking about a unique character.”
Until Sir Alex Ferguson has him back under his wing for a little longer, Martinez probably knows Cleverley’s game as well as anybody. But even he was amazed at his mature performances in recent games for United.
“With his technical ability, he could have been brought up in Holland or Spain,” said Martinez.
“And tactically he is one of the most clever players I have ever worked with. He can play in different positions and do different jobs. But even I was surprised in the Community Shield when he played in a central role.
“I know how much he can affect games but coming on for United and doing so well was a surprise. His mentality is the real strength of Tom.
“No doubt the bigger challenge, the bigger the achievement.
“It is difficult in the Premier League to find a player at his age who thinks as clearly as he does. He loves the game and he is refreshing.
“It is like going back 20 years and finding a player who just loves playing football.”
Cleverley’s United team-mate Michael Carrick agrees with Martinez, but warned the young pretender that he is ready to fight off the challenge for his midfield place at Old Trafford.
“He’s a big talent but, not only that, mentally he’s also spot on,” said Carrick.
“His attitude is first class. He listens, he works hard and his only focus is football and how to improve. He has a massive chance of being one of the best.” Cleverley’s emergence has spiced up competition for places, with Anderson, Darren Fletcher, Ryan Giggs, Ji-Sung Park, Darron Gibson and Carrick giving Ferguson plenty of midfield options, despite United ending their interest in summer target Wesley Sneijder.
So, despite having picked up four championship medals in five seasons with United, Carrick knows he cannot rest on past glories.
He said: “It’s a clean slate now.
“There is always competition for places here, that’s what makes it so great.
“We have had a bit of a turn-around with the playing staff and we have a young squad. I’m not fearful of that at all, I embrace it.”
And Carrick believes United will adapt and adjust to the void left by the retired Paul Scholes.
“It’s not so much replacing him, you’ve just got to move on and adapt,” he said. “We’ve done it over the years.
“When Cristiano Ronaldo left three years ago, everyone said, ‘How do you replace him?’. But we didn’t replace him like-for-like, we moved on and adapted – and we were still successful.”
Inter Milan chief executive Ernesto Paolillio, meanwhile, says they intend to keep Sneijder but are happy to sell striker Samuel Eto’o to Russian club Anzhi Makhachkala,
“Eto’o will be sold but Sneijder won’t be,” he said
Jesus, he's literally gushing over Tom, makes you wonder how much better his season would have been if he was luckier with injury last year.
A bit too much hype considering he played in a friendly against Barca and 45 mins against City. And you know the tune will change fast once he hits poor form
I think after Fergie seeing the impact Tom has made, he is using the Sniejder wages as an excuse to forget about Wesley when he would prefer to give Cleverley a chance to break into the first team and make a real impact and save the club a few zillions. Good choice Fergie and I am expecting him to put in some huge performances. Barca and Real might be one step too far for us in the CL this year again though!
So the likes of Carrick, Fergie, Martinez, Capello etc etc think he's a marvellous player and a star in the making.
Some folk on an internet website think he's overhyped.
I know who I'll go with.
Some folk on an internet website think he's overhyped.
I know who I'll go with.
Cleverley is getting a little overhyped at the moment but who cares. Everyone loves Cleverley, including me.
Its amazing how far he's come from being a pretty average fullback in his academy days to what he is now. Testament to the value of hard work.
Its not the fact that others rate him, but that they praise him as the next best thing already although he hasnt proved anything over a longer period yet. Therefore, lets keep it simple and humble and give him the time to develop and make mistakes. Cause I know that as soon as he hits poor form, he will go from hero to zero on this very forum (see Nani, see Anderson, see Ronaldo etc etc)
Looks like Cleverley's done enough to assure the Boss that he can start, hm?
Oh Shit, them twats on the England team are going to start calling Tom 'Clezza' now, aren't they?
or Tozza perhaps.Please no.
What's wrong with Tom?
I know it's an odd suggestion but I think it could serve the purpose.
Because it would make to much sense! Anyway, didn't some article state that his nickname was Chunks?
Giggs does the same. The reason Cleverley had such a big impact, and an unexpected one to the likes of Martinez and others who have been watching him is because of how maturely he kept the ball moving with accurate passes. Certainly when played wide in recent seasons he gave the ball away playing risky passes that would sometimes come off and sometimes not, similar to how Nani can pass well but also give up possession too easily with complacent passing at times. Cleverley had none of this against City, he was always finding a team mate in space and Anderson stepped it up in this regard too
You'll note than none of the people you've mentioned have suggested he's currently ready to fill Scholesy's boots.
Too much pressure on a young player can be damaging.
The lad needs some breathing space instead of people spouting rubbish like "we don't need a Sniejder when we've got Cleverly" - when currently he's had a half decent season at Wigan and 45 minutes against City.
For now we should compare and contrast with the likes of Henderson and Adam
Cleverley broadly speaking didn't play much different last Sunday than he usually plays. What happened was he got the ball a lot more so didn't force his passing to create something and, more importantly, the players he was playing with are all much better than what he's used to so they could anticipate what he was going to do.
For example, Cleverley has a tendency to play the one touch pass and then move into space for the return. The quality of player we have at Man Utd can a) anticipate the quick ball will be coming and b) know that Cleverley will run into space for the return and be able to move the ball on seemlessly. Rooney, Ando, Nani etc. did this several times at Wembley.
However, when you're playing with less good players as Cleverley has whilst out on loan and with the England U21s often you find you release the ball and its not anticipated so posession is lost or you release the ball and its controlled and then lost because your teammates has not anticipated your movement: The result of this is that when the move breaks down you're out of place.
That I think is why his loan managers played him on the wing. Cleverley had a reputation for conceeding possession. His managers (excluding perhaps Martinez) assumed this was a flaw of his and so played him on the flank where concessions of possessions are less dangerous than in the middle. However, Sir Alex rightly saw that this was because Cleverley's speed of thought was something players who aren't top class cannot keep up with and playing alongisde the standard of player we have at United he would flourish in the middle. His only doubts about Cleverley as a midfielder were not that he couldn't keep the ball moving but that he couldn't hold his own against big powerful players like Toure but judging by his words in the press conference those doubts have now been dispelled.
Once again Sir Alex has seen what others have not. We will truly miss the old man when the day comes that he steps down at Old Trafford...
The idea that all of the supposed 'hype' originated with the performances against Barcelona and then Man City is contrary to reality and perhaps reveals a lack of knowledge about the levels below the first team (which is perfectly normal, but should not be assumed of others).
That's not to say that it has always been certain that he was a future first team player -- it never is and isn't still to this day -- but it has been thought for quite some time that he is a player with many of the attributes that are required, and a number of people have argued for at least 2 years that his qualities are more suited to the central areas of the pitch.
It's also not true that Cleverley only played at fullback for the reserves. He started as a fullback -- possibly because of a lack of options, or more likely because his late physical development created some confusion about what exactly his best position was -- but he also played in most midfield positions, as well.
Here is one such example from the 2008/09 reserve season (taken from Man United Youth):
It was actually the appointment of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer as the reserve manager that effectively cemented Cleverley's primary role as a midfielder. It's important to note that the reserves is a very different environment from either the U18's or obviously the first team because of the frequent changes in the composition of the squad due to players moving in and out of loan. That a player is a regular in one position is not always particularly instructive as to where they are most suited. The unsettled nature of the reserves is also one of the reasons why coaches tend to move on quite regularly.
Somewhat surprisingly given the emerging consensus in opposition to physique being an impediment to playing in central midfield, Tom's early professional career -- roughly between 16-19 years old -- appears to have been hampered by concerns about his size, which is a shame given what we now know (and probably should have known then).
Having said that, it can also be argued that the experience and knowledge gained from playing in so many positions is an invaluable lesson for any young player. Ajax are famed for encouraging young players to experience as many positions as possible in order to improve technical and tactical knowledge of the game. It is therefore Ironic that the early concerns about Cleverley's size may well turn out to have been a blessing in disguise for both the player and the club.
That's not to say that it has always been certain that he was a future first team player -- it never is and isn't still to this day -- but it has been thought for quite some time that he is a player with many of the attributes that are required, and a number of people have argued for at least 2 years that his qualities are more suited to the central areas of the pitch.
It's also not true that Cleverley only played at fullback for the reserves. He started as a fullback -- possibly because of a lack of options, or more likely because his late physical development created some confusion about what exactly his best position was -- but he also played in most midfield positions, as well.
Here is one such example from the 2008/09 reserve season (taken from Man United Youth):
Zieler
Neville -- Chester -- Cathcart -- Eckersley
Gray -- Cleverley (c) -- Possebon -- Jones -- S Evans
Macheda
Neville -- Chester -- Cathcart -- Eckersley
Gray -- Cleverley (c) -- Possebon -- Jones -- S Evans
Macheda
It was actually the appointment of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer as the reserve manager that effectively cemented Cleverley's primary role as a midfielder. It's important to note that the reserves is a very different environment from either the U18's or obviously the first team because of the frequent changes in the composition of the squad due to players moving in and out of loan. That a player is a regular in one position is not always particularly instructive as to where they are most suited. The unsettled nature of the reserves is also one of the reasons why coaches tend to move on quite regularly.
Somewhat surprisingly given the emerging consensus in opposition to physique being an impediment to playing in central midfield, Tom's early professional career -- roughly between 16-19 years old -- appears to have been hampered by concerns about his size, which is a shame given what we now know (and probably should have known then).
Having said that, it can also be argued that the experience and knowledge gained from playing in so many positions is an invaluable lesson for any young player. Ajax are famed for encouraging young players to experience as many positions as possible in order to improve technical and tactical knowledge of the game. It is therefore Ironic that the early concerns about Cleverley's size may well turn out to have been a blessing in disguise for both the player and the club.
I am very excited about Cleverley which is why I would worry about how many games he would get if we signed someone like Sneijder.
Of course, the pecking order is not static and can change but I think Fergie always has one in his mind.
If it's me you mean, I've been watching him for years, and I've rated him for a good while.
I'm just saying let him play a few competitive games for United though before we declare that our midfield is sorted for the next decade... and also cut him some slack if he takes a while to step up.
Unfortunately we've now set up a situation where the media, and the transfer muppet element, will jump on his back with "He's no Sneijder!" if he is less than amazing.
Personally I'm just waiting for the day he gets blamed for Englands failure to make/win Euro 2012. That'll be sign he's truly made it. If West Ham fans aren't willing to lynch your effigy Beckham 98 style you aint made it as Man Utd England International.
The hype's been snowballing since the shield game, the media not having any other football games and no one else to blow up or slate hasn't helped it either. It's the same Cleverly-is-the-savior thing that keeps getting recycled, re-worded, attributed to different people, and reprinted every day
The moment he puts a foot wrong they're going to descend on him like a horde of vultures.
- Status