2+2 = 45?
Tom Cleverley | 2010/11 Performances (on loan at Wigan)
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2+2 = 45?
why so? we have more than enough cover in central midfield and on the wings.
It should be bolton really. He'd be surrounded by shit at wigan, and would regress rather than develop.
Him and Dave Whelan do seem to get on.
He was with a shit team at Watford and developed rather than regressed.
He's far more likely to get games at Wigan, especially with them selling N'Zogbia. Bolton would be far harder to break into.
Scholes and Giggs are getting old and will need rest. Carrick and Anderson are fresh from one of their worst seasons ever and there was nothing in the Shitty reserve game to suggest that things had changed, Gibson is Gibson and Hargreaves is crocked. Im not saying that we will surely bring in a midfielder. What Im saying is that I wont be surprised if we add a midfielder to the team thats all
If Tom goes out on loan then I predict that thy ol' injured one will be announced in Fergie's squad.
It would be pointless to leave him out anyway, with all our players we're still under the limit. Same if Cleverley stayed (under 21).
I agree. We will have the only registered player who passes much of his career in another continent.
You're not seriously judging Anderson on his first game in football after being out for 6 months after major surgery on his knee?
I think Ando's early return is the most likely reason Fergie thinks he can send Cleverley out on loan.
Have I said that? What I said that there was nothing to suggest that Carrick and Anderson had gone out of that bad patch, that's all. Cleverley was by far out best midfielder on the pitch in that game. I expected him to be on the bench for the West Ham game and not loaned.
BTW we knew that Anderson will return in September or October didn't we? I doubt the fact that a reserve had returned a bit earlier would have changed our strategy so much. On the other hand you could be right.
Cleverley played on the wing in that game, as I have already pointed out. We've got loads of options on the wing already.
I don't think anyone expected him to be able to play 60 minutes of a competitive game of football by the middle of August.
I don't wind him going to Wigan, alright they are in a mess right now but hey its Chelsea and they were expected to get hit.
Anyways, he'd pretty much be a starter there I doubt that will be the case at Bolton.
Anyways, he'd pretty much be a starter there I doubt that will be the case at Bolton.
Cleverly and Hernandez were the 2 players I was most looking forward to this season so I'm disappointed that he's going on loan, I hope at least he gets to go to Bolton.
We won't bring in anyone anyway so I hope we keep him and give him some games.
If send him on loan it will be because we won't be able to give him enough games.
We all know that Cleverley can play in CM. Anyway he certainly looked on form + his passes and shots on goal where much accurate then Carrick\Anderson\Gibson whom, at times seems struggling against Shitty kids
If I remember well Anderson should have returned by mid September. He is just few weeks ahead of shedule. Should the early return of a reserve trigger an on form player's departure on loan? I cant answer you that.
Do we? Wanna reel off a list of games where you have watched him play in central midfield?
Actually, on reflection, it doesn't really make sense linking this loan to Anderson's early return to fitness - so I'm actually a bit bemused by this myself. I always thought a loan made sense, because we have so many options in wide midfield, but I don't understand why Fergie would say he was going to hold onto him, then suddenly change his mind. That's odd.
Well if I remember well, according to both Watford and United, Cleverley can easily slot in central midfield. Who am I to contradict that expecially since our best cover for Scholes is a 37 yr old winger.?
Fair enough. On the other hand I stick to what I said, if Cleverley is a goner then I wont be surprised if we add a midfielder to the team. Last season's achilles heel was central midfield, our most creative players in that midfield are at the wrong side of their career and Cleverley was one of the few new options that could have given us a different approach to what we currently have. That doesn't mean that I am sure about it or I would lose any sleep if we dont do that.
Disagree. I have absolutely no qualms about a midfield consisting of 2 or 3 from Fletcher, Carrick and Anderson.
If Scholes had to pick an injury now then Id rather see Giggs replacing him then Carrick or Anderson.
How many times again has he played there all his career to date?
I'd like to see Cleverley given a chance here.
So you'd agree that we have enough cover in CM?
Then where's the problem exactly with sending Cleverly on loan where he will SURELY get much more playing time than here.
With Nzogbia going to Brum - he'd get game time at Wigan I'd venture. It may stir up pointless crap where people start saying "Thought he was going to trust the youngsters" and "thought he said he wasn't going anywhere"
But, if he is going to get a lot of game time in the PL - where at Wigan he'll also have to do a lot more defending than he'll ever have to do with us - it might really be a good thing. Maybe there is little truth in that 1 game at United is worth 5 anywhere else but, I'd say that is an exaggeration people use to make it seem like a good thing playing only a few games a season.
You've got to play consistently to improve IMO - at age 20-22 if you aren't playing regularly then loans make the most sense for me.
But, if he is going to get a lot of game time in the PL - where at Wigan he'll also have to do a lot more defending than he'll ever have to do with us - it might really be a good thing. Maybe there is little truth in that 1 game at United is worth 5 anywhere else but, I'd say that is an exaggeration people use to make it seem like a good thing playing only a few games a season.
You've got to play consistently to improve IMO - at age 20-22 if you aren't playing regularly then loans make the most sense for me.
With the possibility of Scholes playing a hell of a lot less next year if he chooses not to retire, having Cleverly with a whole year of PL experience would be brilliant. Would prefer him to go to Bolton over Wigan though. Owen Coyle would be a good manager for him to work under.
Does anyone know the score with re-calling loaned players? Say if there's an injury crisis?
I presume you have to wait until the next window?
I presume you have to wait until the next window?
Generally it depends on the terms of the specific loan contract. If we did have to recall him it wouldn't be an issue playing his because he doesn't need registration.
Clubs like Wigan and Bolton won't accept a recall option outside of a transfer window for obvious reasons. What we could do is make it a season long loan with a recall option during the January transfer window or simply make it a four month loan spell until January.
Can season long loans have a recall placed in them? Thought the rule was that only the short term loans can have that clause put in.
Anyway, I'm not surprised to see this loan happen and I really don't think it means we're going to sign a midfielder. Just look at the options out wide in particular: Valencia, Nani, Park, Giggs, and Obertan.
Unless we were extremely unfortunate with injuries there was never going to be a possibility of both Obertan and Cleverley getting sufficient playing time this season so one of them had to go out on loan. I expect De Laet will also be loaned out for the same reason.
Unless we were extremely unfortunate with injuries there was never going to be a possibility of both Obertan and Cleverley getting sufficient playing time this season so one of them had to go out on loan. I expect De Laet will also be loaned out for the same reason.
As I said, you can put a recall option in a season long loan agreement but you would only be able to recall the player during the January transfer window. The loanee club wouldn't accept anything more than that.
Without the Clev guy, its still our last season's midfield with the only difference that our top quality midfielders (who are responsible for the creativityin midfield) are 1 year older. If I remember well CM was a big concern last season.
I'd be delighted if he was to go to Bolton.
His name is Ryan Giggs and he's a fantastic fooballer. You should've said "our best cover for Scholes is Giggs, who is fecking fantastic". Only that wouldn't have been a muppety panic attack. Reading this forum you would'vre though having Giggs and Scholes in our team are weaknesses rather than strengths that every single team in the world envy us.
Plus what Pogue said.
Giggs is 37. Correct. He is a winger. Correct. Therefore there is nothing wrong in what I said. And no I dont see Giggs and Scholes as a weakness. Our weakness lay in not having the quality cover to replace them once they run out of the steam. Lets face it at their age there is no way in the world that they can bail us out for the entire campaign. They didn't manage to do that last season when they were 1 year younger.
Yes, finishing a point behind Chelsea certainly had nothing to do with the most ridiculous defensive injury crisis we've (or anyone have) had in ages. Or only having two reliable strikers. Etc.
Those two things played their part too in fact we added 2 players to solve these problems once and for all. Central midfield caused us concerns too and many expected us to strengthen that area. Dont forget that this year our most creative midfielder will be 35 and 37 yrs old.
Anyway I believed that we where not going to get a new central midfielder because SAF had faith in Cleverley. If Cleverley leaves then as I said I wont be surprised if we add a new midfield before the transfer market closes.
PS we won the CL with 2 reliable strikers. Saha was always crocked.
I don't really want to derail this thread, I just see red when people use Giggs and Scholes to paint things black. Short replies to those points:
Adding Smalling shouldn't matter. We had five very good centre backs last season, and that's one or two more than any other team had then and have this season. Last year was just a freak thing in that regard.
07/08, yes. But we also had Ronaldo. And the difference between then and last season, was that we had both (or all three of them) in the crucial run in. Had we not lost Rooney to injury late last season, things would most likely have ended differently. Hypotetical, yes, but it shows that having two reliable strikers is a potential liability. It hurt us in 09/10, but not in 07/08.
The strength of our central midfield depends on a couple of variables that are hard to predict, but that SAF and the staff are in a better position to judge than we are: Will Anderson come back soon and progress? Will Carrick have a better season? I don't blame them for believing "yes" to be the correct answer to both.
Adding Smalling shouldn't matter. We had five very good centre backs last season, and that's one or two more than any other team had then and have this season. Last year was just a freak thing in that regard.
07/08, yes. But we also had Ronaldo. And the difference between then and last season, was that we had both (or all three of them) in the crucial run in. Had we not lost Rooney to injury late last season, things would most likely have ended differently. Hypotetical, yes, but it shows that having two reliable strikers is a potential liability. It hurt us in 09/10, but not in 07/08.
The strength of our central midfield depends on a couple of variables that are hard to predict, but that SAF and the staff are in a better position to judge than we are: Will Anderson come back soon and progress? Will Carrick have a better season? I don't blame them for believing "yes" to be the correct answer to both.
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