Toby Alderweireld

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Buying an 'old' player is more a financial situation more than anything imo. It's about his future sell on value etc., some teams need to care about that, others not so much.

And I do find it rather strange that so many people don't have any objections to spending because "I'ts not their money" and at the same time claim players are too old when they are 29 and can easily give 4+ years of top quality. United are in a financial situation where you can buy players who can be brought in to perform and then replaced when needed.

I understand that having a number of players who need to be replaced at the same time is not ideal, and that generation shifts is a thing, but that's hardly the case here.
 
Red Katie said:
But the new stadium will make up for lower wages :)
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heh, so the Spurs fans will have you believe. Truth is yes with the influx of cash from having double the seating capacity they will be paying their players more. No they will not be paying them what they could get at the big clubs. Rumour has it Spurs are trying to improve his current 80k to 130k. But Alderweireld hasnt signed as him and his advisers(agent) think his valuation is more around the 180k bracket. And he may just get it, or close enough to it, depending upon who he signs with.
 
Signing Alderweireld would be an excellent acquisition but the positives from him coming to OT would be diluted a bit if Martial goes in the opposite direction.
 
hellohello said:
I would play for free in the new stadium, why wouldn't every player in the world do the same? It's world class i tell you!
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Sure you would, I'd also do that for United. After a while you'd get tired of it though.
 
Red Katie said:
Sure you would, I'd also do that for United. After a while you'd get tired of it though.
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Would never get tired of world class training grounds and world class stadiums, they even have world class toilets!

(I am being sarcastic, sorry if that wasn't obvious :) )

If I am serious, top class facilities does of course help, just like location helps, but ultimately there are more important factors.
 
I really don't care if Martial has to go as part of any deal, at this stage we're hoping he develops further and there's no guarantees he's going to improve especially given how much of a sulker he's turned out to be already. What is important for next season is we fix our woeful defense and get some authority and ability back in there as it is costing us time nad time again, Alderweireld is definitely the man for the job and if he costs us Martial then fine.
 
And Alexander wept, for he was 29, and thought “pfft, I might as well pack it all in really, innit?”
 
ZAGREB RED said:
Signing Alderweireld would be an excellent acquisition but the positives from him coming to OT would be diluted a bit if Martial goes in the opposite direction.
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redmanc said:
I really don't care if Martial has to go as part of any deal, at this stage we're hoping he develops further and there's no guarantees he's going to improve especially given how much of a sulker he's turned out to be already. What is important for next season is we fix our woeful defense and get some authority and ability back in there as it is costing us time nad time again, Alderweireld is definitely the man for the job and if he costs us Martial then fine.
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Reports from United state Martial won't be moving to a PL club, if at all.

Don't worry.
 
I'm not surprised at Spurs asking for £75m while simultaneously claiming that he's not currently good enough to be a starter... or that they want Martial in exchange... but let's offer £50m for their "substitute" and see where it takes us.
 
Decomposing In Paris said:
I'm not surprised at Spurs asking for £75m while simultaneously claiming that he's not currently good enough to be a starter... or that they want Martial in exchange... but let's offer £50m for their "substitute" and see where it takes us.
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Real did the same with Morata.

I don't think people are claiming that he isn't good enough to be a starter though, but that's hardly the point. If we are set to lose him as seem likely at this point, how much money he is 'worth' is not exactly the question, but rather how much is enough to make it worth selling to a main rival over keeping him for another year and selling him for 25m the year after.

50m is probably a fair starting point imo, but we'll see what happens. I don't think he'll end up at United personally. but it could happen.
 
hellohello said:
Real did the same with Morata.

I don't think people are claiming that he isn't good enough to be a starter though, but that's hardly the point. If we are set to lose him as seem likely at this point, how much money he is 'worth' is not exactly the question, but rather how much is enough to make it worth selling to a main rival over keeping him for another year and selling him for 25m the year after.

50m is probably a fair starting point imo, but we'll see what happens. I don't think he'll end up at United personally. but it could happen.
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I agree, I don't think he'll end up here either, but if we offer what Spurs accepted for Walker, I think we'll be part of the conversation. Good as he is, and much as we need someone like him, I don't want us paying £75m for him either. There's other quality CB's out there.
 
Decomposing In Paris said:
I'm not surprised at Spurs asking for £75m while simultaneously claiming that he's not currently good enough to be a starter... or that they want Martial in exchange... but let's offer £50m for their "substitute" and see where it takes us.
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Let's not do that. Let's instead offer what a 29 year old CB who spent last season on the bench, contributing nothing to his team, might actually be worth. Which is a lot closer to £40m. Unless there's major competition for the player, we shouldn't pay much more than that.
 
Will Absolute said:
Let's not do that. Let's instead offer what a 29 year old CB who spent last season on the bench, contributing nothing to his team, might actually be worth. Which is a lot closer to £40m. Unless there's major competition for the player, we shouldn't pay much more than that.
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He spent most of last season on the bench because after he was injured MP knew he wasn’t going to sign a new contract so was effectively planning for life after him and wanted players fully committed to the Spurs cause to play. He literally only played him when he had to after his injury. Did the same with Walker. MP’s principles don’t make a player a bad one.
 
The money being spent on good centre backs at the moment just tells you how few of them there are now. In a fantasy world, if you had £100m, or whatever, where is the Rio type signing, where you know that he's at the right age and he'll be top class, whatever he costs? Umtiti and Varane maybe, albeit Varane , IMHO, hasn't yet quite looked like the player he threatened to become, without even mentioning the physical issues. Marquinhos? Laporte? Van Dijk?
 
We'll wait until next season and get him for £25m, we'll have a few injury prone CBs to offload next season anyway.
 
Regarding all these talk about Toby's age and value, I might be naive but I personally believe that our very qualified and capable CEO and manager will do as they see fit. If Woodward and Jose thinks signing Toby even at 100 million is a viable deal for the club, I don't see what the big deal is. It's not like our CEO and manager are clueless duds.

Whether or not we should be getting a better player with the quoted price is another question though. Price-wise, I'm not worried about Toby's price and it shouldn't be a problem for a club of our stature.
 
We'll do well to pull this one off.
Tottenham being notoriously awkward to deal with, media already talking ludicrous high fees, I won't hold my breath!
 
Will Absolute said:
Let's not do that. Let's instead offer what a 29 year old CB who spent last season on the bench, contributing nothing to his team, might actually be worth. Which is a lot closer to £40m. Unless there's major competition for the player, we shouldn't pay much more than that.
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Fine, but we would need to be prepared for the very real possibility that we won't sign him for that, and look at alternative options. What I really don't want if us faffing around over a few million quid and towards the end of the window, signing someone not quite good enough.
 
Decomposing In Paris said:
Fine, but we would need to be prepared for the very real possibility that we won't sign him for that, and look at alternative options. What I really don't want if us faffing around over a few million quid and towards the end of the window, signing someone not quite good enough.
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We'll get Sokratis this season, and Alderweireld next season for cheap :)
 
Spurs doesn't have lot of options anyway . They can chose to agree a fair fee with united or lose him for 25 m next year with the player being compensated the lost wages through signon bonus.

Anything above 45m is a robbery and i hope we stay out of it. There are lot of options available in the market
 
Do we really need another CB? No rumors of us selling Smalling, Jones or Rojo has emerged, we should prioritize fullback position first. Spurs haven't missed him at all, we should really try to get him on the cheap if we really have to get this guy.
 
bond19821982 said:
Spurs doesn't have lot of options anyway . They can chose to agree a fair fee with united or lose him for 25 m next year with the player being compensated the lost wages through signon bonus.

Anything above 45m is a robbery and i hope we stay out of it. There are lot of options available in the market
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Or we can sell him abroad this summer. Just because there has been a lot of media attention in this country concerning a United deal, it doesn't necessarily mean that there's no interest from elsewhere.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Or we can sell him abroad this summer. Just because there has been a lot of media attention in this country concerning a United deal, it doesn't necessarily mean that there's no interest from elsewhere.
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That’s if he himself wants to go abroad too
 
GlastonSpur said:
Or we can sell him abroad this summer. Just because there has been a lot of media attention in this country concerning a United deal, it doesn't necessarily mean that there's no interest from elsewhere.
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But this is the internet. You make it sound as if we're limited in means to assess who is after him.
Anyway, there isn't a club outside of England that is paying big money for Toby when he's 29 and available for 25m next summer.
Juve sold a better defender for 30 odd million Euros last summer!
 
Seems like Spurs didn't miss him much while replacing him with Sanchez. Doesn't mean Sanchez is almost as good as him, or the Spurs system make a CB looks better than they should be?
 
Isotope said:
Seems like Spurs didn't miss him much while replacing him with Sanchez. Doesn't mean Sanchez is almost as good as him, or the Spurs system make a CB looks better than they should be?
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In the 13 PL games he started we averaged 1.92 goals a game scored (25 in 13) and a goal a game conceded (13 in 13).

In the 25 PL games he didn't start we averaged 1.96 goals a game scored (49 in 25) and only 0.92 goals a game conceded (23 in 25).

Make of this what you will.
 
I’m loving the “we don’t have much option” stance, if United want the player cough up the fee £45-50M in this market is fair IMO. An established top CB, most say as one of the best in Europe and arguably the best in the PL.
 
InLevyITrust said:
I’m loving the “we don’t have much option” stance, if United want the player cough up the fee £45-50M in this market is fair IMO. An established top CB, most say as one of the best in Europe and arguably the best in the PL.
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45-50 million is fair(ish) but 75 million, that's just bonkers!
 
GlastonSpur said:
In the 13 PL games he started we averaged 1.92 goals a game scored (25 in 13) and a goal a game conceded (13 in 13).

In the 25 PL games he didn't start we averaged 1.96 goals a game scored (49 in 25) and only 0.92 goals a game conceded (23 in 25).

Make of this what you will.
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Yeh. Not much different. It makes me wonder if he's a true "world class", when without him, Spurs was still doing fine replacing him with a 20s y.o. CB.
 
Isotope said:
Yeh. Not much different. It makes me wonder if he's a true "world class", when without him, Spurs was still doing fine replacing him with a 20s y.o. CB.
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If goals conceded is the sole measurement of how good a defense is, we have 5 world class CBs and four world class FBs.
 
GlastonSpur said:
In the 13 PL games he started we averaged 1.92 goals a game scored (25 in 13) and a goal a game conceded (13 in 13).

In the 25 PL games he didn't start we averaged 1.96 goals a game scored (49 in 25) and only 0.92 goals a game conceded (23 in 25).

Make of this what you will.
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If that's the case why wasn't he starting games when fit?
 
Sultan said:
If that's the case why wasn't he starting games when fit?
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Because - as the stats suggest - our game results were just as good without him (very slightly better in fact), and because if he wasn't going to sign a new contract then Poch rightly preferred, with an eye to longer-term, to bed in Sanchez.

Of course such stats can be misleading, not least because they don't show the quality of the opposition in the games concerned.
 
GlastonSpur said:
In the 13 PL games he started we averaged 1.92 goals a game scored (25 in 13) and a goal a game conceded (13 in 13).

In the 25 PL games he didn't start we averaged 1.96 goals a game scored (49 in 25) and only 0.92 goals a game conceded (23 in 25).

Make of this what you will.
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I looked up a stat like this earlier. In previous seasons those were reversed and you were definitely worse off without him. I think the major difference this year is Vertonghen really stepped up without him and had his best ever season.
 
Hans Moleman said:
I looked up a stat like this earlier. In previous seasons those were reversed and you were definitely worse off without him. I think the major difference this year is Vertonghen really stepped up without him and had his best ever season.
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Or maybe their backup CB was sucks at that time?
 
GlastonSpur said:
In the 13 PL games he started we averaged 1.92 goals a game scored (25 in 13) and a goal a game conceded (13 in 13).

In the 25 PL games he didn't start we averaged 1.96 goals a game scored (49 in 25) and only 0.92 goals a game conceded (23 in 25).

Make of this what you will.
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It's impossible to make anything of it. The stats with Alderweireld were a lot better until the Leicester-game when Spurs lost 4 goals, but as I didn't see that game I don't know who was to blame for those goals. You could also add that another goal happened because Aurier lost his head and got sent off (West Ham away). In addition - you have to take into consideration who they played with or without him -
 
Isotope said:
Or maybe their backup CB was sucks at that time?
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A little from column A, a little from column B.

What is a fact is that LvG dropped a massive bollock by not signing him from Atletico when he was being sold for almost nothing.
 
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