I would be extremely surprised. Wages is one thing, and I honestly don't think they would get in ahead of Sanchez/Verthongen. If he moves to United it's not a player swap situation imo.
Toby Alderweireld
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
- Start date
- Status
I would be extremely surprised. Wages is one thing, and I honestly don't think they would get in ahead of Sanchez/Verthongen. If he moves to United it's not a player swap situation imo.
Anything above 45m pound for a 29 year old CB who we can buy next year for 25m is overpaying and I hope we look elswhere if Spurs play hardball.
Both Jones and Smalling are rumoured to be on relatively low wages. Easily covered by Spurs' structure.
They are both better than Sanchez in my opinion.
No chance.
For all their faults, they have been loyal and committed servants to the club, NQAT. Always heads down and worked hard. Makes them a bit more endearing than some actual talents who didn't give a shit, I guess.
I'm not really making the point that they should be used in part-exchange if possible, just that with regards to their wages, it's feasible. However, I'm all for a major upgrade to our backline.
I'm not convinced he would be an upgrade at all.
I know where you are coming from, because he doesn't play for United and you haven't seen enough of him but he must be better than Chris Smalling who has been a mainstay in our defense this season. No chance absolutely.
What, Alderweireld?
I genuinely don't recall Alderwierald doing much wrong at centre back since he came to England. He's been benched most of this season amid his reluctance to renew and suddenly he's not better than what we have?
I'm actually a big advocate for Smalling and Jones (more the former) but Spurs' centre backs have been one of the few in the league performing better than ours.
I'm actually a big advocate for Smalling and Jones (more the former) but Spurs' centre backs have been one of the few in the league performing better than ours.
He lost the header to Lukaku for the assist of the Martial winner at Old Trafford, something similar to how Jones lost the header to Kane for the infamous goal in the 11th second at Wembley in the reverse fixture. Me myself berated Jones for that to be honest, but maybe I'm exaggerating here. There were many times I have seen Spurs playing and I always felt Vertonghen is the better CB though, strange considering Toby is always the one considered as the best CB in the league.
What? He's been injured for a lot of the season, he played consistently up until his injury, he was only benched during his recovery when he returned mid March (his contract situation only really influenced his appearances from that point on). He has played 21 games for us this season.
Really? One of the two best centre backs in there league not an upgrade on the calamities who’ve played most games for us this season?
I remember this. Smalling too lost the header to Kompany's goal when we played City (he got a nod in later, mind).
Also agree re. Vertonghen but I think Toby is more of an all rounder than what we have and has a better injury record to Jones in the very least. A steadfast consistent CB pairing is probably why Jose is in the transfer market.
I do agree with anyone who has a view that we don't really need another CB. We managed one of fewest goals conceded in the last 4 seasons and that's not ALL David De Gea's doing. But in any case we're in the market for one and I wouldn't look much further than Alderweirald from those available.
£75m is a fecking stupid fee though, I'd be pissed to pay that much regardless of how much we can afford.
Look at how Spurs’s defence and Vertonghen improved as soon as he went there. And no defender loses every challenge they go in for. I’d be more concerned if he had a history of stupidity and brain farts like our Dumb and Dumber.
I don't see him as anywhere near that good. The players we have at CB are already sufficient, as evidenced by how many we conceded (and yes I know De Gea played a part in that as well). We just need FBs and more attacking options.
Yep....I see no guarantees of an overall improvement if we sign him. More experience and more rotational options yes, but as we've seen over the past couple of years, Mourinho doesn't seem to have a consistent CB pair. He prefers to go with whoever happens to be in good form, trains well, and is healthy.
We started calamity Jones and Smalling in a cup final. Wouldn't call that having sufficient quality in defence.
Sufficient if we want more of the same of what we have seen for much of the last two years. A team that is restricted in its play because our defenders are awful on the ball and has to be so mindful of what’s going on behind them because the defence can’t be trusted. If we want to improve Jones and Smalling have to be Carabao Cup options at best next season. The numbers of our defensive record are deceptive and would be more reflective if we didn’t have one of the best goalkeepers the Premier League has seen.
Agree on fullbacks. Whole first choice thing needs ripping up and starting again.
Think that's more down to overall team improvement and Poch working on the squad, Verts is overall the better footballer and defender. Not putting Toby down, he's a top defender too.
Having all five CBs healthy would be more than sufficient. We conceded 1 in the final and managed feck all in attack. Its the latter that sank us and should be prioritized.
You do know players can play until their mid to late 30s right? Have you forgotten that?
We were one goal off from having the best defense in the league. Conceding goals isn't a problem, not scoring them on the other hand is a massive one.
I thought he followed a similar pattern to Bailey for us? Injured from November to March (in Baley's case it was a bit less as he returned in Feb).. but available for the start and final stages of the season.
I think he has been an important player for Spurs, you watch them more than I have, but isn't there a stat that shows how vital he was? Something about Tottenham having half the points without him in the team. Would need to get this fact checked though.
Vertonghen agree better footballer, he came with that reputation but was quite dopey/prone to odd error (partly because of who was next to him) when he first came. It was like having his fellow Belgian (and a regular partner) helped sharpen him up. I take his arrival and the impact as more than a coincidence. This year Vertonghen been top level, no doubt.
Too simple for me to just look at the numbers alone. A better, more solid defence will help things at the other end too.
Can't we do a trade with Lindelof? Spending £40m+ on another CB doesn't sit right with me when we've already got 5 other CBs. Alderweield is a good defender but he's not the beast some people think he is.
I'd much rather sign Danny Rose from them.
I'd much rather sign Danny Rose from them.
That's where FBs come into play. We could do with a couple of good ones.
The argument would be that for us to make up the ground on City, we're going to have to a little more caviler at times, thus meaning the back four will have to be able to withstand attacks without needing to be shielded quite as much by the midfield. Defensive frailties can be absorbed somewhat when you're defending in numbers - as we did countless times last season.
Hypothetical of course.
At the right price, I see enough value in bringing in Toby. Because if we are to be more attacking, I'd be more comfortable with him.
Yeah he was only benched from March on but still featured in some games, Poch said he wasn't fit which I would say was a half truth.
I'd be interested in seeing that stat, I don't think we suffered that much with Toby out. It's hard to compare this season to last because of Wembley.
It's a very simplistic way to look at things. One of the reasons we don't commit men forward when attacking is because Jose clearly doesn't trust the defence. If we tried to be more attacking we would end up like Arsenal.
Yep, totally agree.
That's part of it, but I have my doubts it has anything to do with our CBs and more to do with the lack of a proper holding player and higher quality FBs.
I think that's purely down to him not having a backline he really trusts. Traditionally he likes to select the same back 4, as probably every other manager. Alderweireld would be acquired for the first XI. And I wouldn't be averse to another starter being acquired too, if there are a couple of outgoings. There is no way we are signing Alderweireld to rotate with 4 other centre backs IMV.
I can agree the Belgian duo definitely compliment each other, and don't get me wrong I'd rather keep Toby but if he wants to go that's his choice.
I've read this from sportsmole. Its on other outlets but the source of data is never mentioned:
Looking back as far as the start of the 2014-15 Premier League season, Spurs have played 131 times with the 24-year-old in their ranks, averaging a return of two goals per game and a win rate of 59%.
Without him, though, and rather worryingly for Tottenham fans, that drops to 1.2 and 38% respectively from the 13 games that he has been forced to sit out.
Now I know he's missed more games than this, and Spurs ended the season strongly so it could be that the win % has improved since that stat. But he's also featured a bit in said games so god knows.
I'm also assuming the 24 year old bit was because he was 24 when he joined, rather than them claiming he's 24 now
I disagree with this. Our CBs hinder our build up play massively. Smalling gets deserved stick for this but outside of Bailly and sometimes Lindelof, our other options in Jones and Rojo are simply poor and/or risk averse.
I've lost count of the amount of times when one of them has the ball and refuses to bypass a square ball to their partner to make a direct pass to the FB on the opposite side of the field who is standing in acres of space. These are not difficult passes and ones I see made by CBs at top clubs routinely. This slows up our build up and the additional pass which needs to happen often means our FBs, who are also problematic in possession/attack, are closed down without space to advance the ball.
Additionally Smalling, Jones and Rojo are all reticent or unable to do anything in possession aside from playing square passes or directly to Matic, Pogba or Herrera when they drop on top of them to collect the ball. It's a major source of our issues and affects our entire structure as players drop deeper and deeper to get involved in the build up play.
I'm not saying Toby fixes all of these issues, but his quality on the ball is so far ahead of anybody we have currently and defensively he's at least par with whomever you want to say is our best. As long as he's not in physical decline he's a clear cut upgrade over what we have and, imo, a necessary one.
The next step, if we were to sign Toby, is to then sell Jones or Rojo.
Yeah of course. If a player wants to go, better off gone. I’m same with a few of ours.
It's a bit odd stat that, goals scored with and without a defender. Interesting, il have to look at who these 13 games were against.
- Status