Toby Alderweireld

[Henrik Larsson]

You're nuts. Toby is one of the best defenders in Europe.

It's pretty obvious we're not goint to be interested in United reserves either like Jones, Smalling and Blind. I always find it amusing when United fans suggest that sort of thing.

Well sweetheart, remind me again how much Bonucci cost last summer? He had an excellent season with Juve playing in a CL final and AC Milan were desperate, but so far it's been a very shite deal for them. We'd be howling mad to pay much more than that since the risk is just too big at that age, plus defensively we're not exactly that desperate.

And believe it or not, Blind would be a truly excellent squad player for you guys, he had one of the best seasons in his career playing with plenty of your players at Ajax. And depending on the cash added such a deal could actually represent better value. Of course it would be highly unlikely, but since Mkhi was traded for Alexis nothing is impossible anymore.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

But next year he'd have a fixed valuation of whatever it is, £25m or something..?

Yup.

 

[The Cat]

No way for 75m.

Would rather spend that on Bale.

 

[Hans Moleman]

There's nothing wrong with his injury record. One hamstring injury doesn't mean he's suddenly a crock

 

[AKDevil]

Agreed. Don't see why he wouldn't just let his contract run down and sign for less in January or next summer.

Because we need him now.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

There's nothing wrong with his injury record. One hamstring injury doesn't mean he's suddenly a crock

Season injury from until Days Games missed
17/18 Hamstring Injury Nov 2, 2017 Mar 11, 2018 129 days 29
16/17 Knee injury Oct 17, 2016 Dec 1, 2016 45 days 9
14/15 Hamstring Injury Jan 12, 2015 Mar 2, 2015 49 days 8
14/15 Thigh problems Sep 18, 2014 Sep 25, 2014 7 days 2
12/13 groin strain Nov 12, 2012 Nov 19, 2012 7 days 1
11/12 Strain in the thigh and gluteal muscles Jan 23, 2012 Feb 9, 2012 17 days 2
11/12 Thigh problems Dec 5, 2011 Jan 2, 2012 28 days 3
11/12 Malleolar injury Oct 3, 2011 Oct 13, 2011 10 days

Excuse the lay out. His injury record isn't that bad, certainly not what people are making out, but he has had to hamstring injuries.

 

[LonelyFire]

I think if there is a realistic chance of us getting Martial, negotiations would go much more smoothly. What do you want Levy to do? "Oh hello Woody, here have Toby for £40M and thanks for taking him off our hands".

There is no chance we will let him go to a PL rival. I know your ITKs are peddling this but its not going to happen. He will go abroad if at all and even at that, the player will really need to push hard.

On Aldeweireld, you're right - not surprising to see Spurs hiking the price. Its what they should be doing. That said, i think this one has an heir of inevitability about it - a compromise. Spurs will get a good deal on a player you have already demonstrated you're not reliant on.

 

[crossy1686]

Because we need him now.

He would improve our defensive options no doubt but he shouldn't be a priority, we don't NEED him.

 

[Massive Spanner]

No way for 75m.

Would rather spend that on Bale.

You'd rather an even bigger waste of money?

 

[Hans Moleman]

He would improve our defensive options no doubt but he shouldn't be a priority, we don't NEED him.

Yes, we do. Our first choice options are all abysmal with the ball. Not to sound like a broken record, but the ability to play out from the back will massively improve our ability to transition into attacks quicker, one of the major failings of Rojo/Smalling/Jones, and to some extent Bailly.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

There is no chance we will let him go to a PL rival. I know your ITKs are peddling this but its not going to happen. He will go abroad if at all and even at that, the player will really need to push hard.

On Aldeweireld, you're right - not surprising to see Spurs hiking the price. Its what they should be doing. That said, i think this one has an heir of inevitability about it - a compromise. Spurs will get a good deal on a player you have already demonstrated you're not reliant on.

I don't think you would let us have Martial personally, probably why Levy is saying £75M, will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[davidmichael]

I just wish we made more signings like Alderweireld which is the best players in the league which weakens our rivals as well as strengthen us, I know it’s not as easy as it was when Sir Alex was doing it but it’s worth spending that bit more to buy proven in our league players so our young players learn from players that are settled and proven in our league instead of those trying to adapt themselves.

Obviously there’s exceptions but think what someone like Tuanzebe would learn from Alderweireld and also Alderweireld is a genuine leader and organiser which is something we seriously lack, I would happy for him to come in and be given the captaincy.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Yes, we do. Our first choice options are all abysmal with the ball. Not to sound like a broken record, but the ability to play out from the back will massively improve our ability to transition into attacks quicker, one of the major failings of Rojo/Smalling/Jones, and to some extent Bailly.

It's not as simple as that though. Blind played as a CB in Van Gaal's last season, he was excellent in possession throwing some lovely passes and being very solid in the build up. We also played a possession based system.

Spoiler

The passes start after 40 second or so

Yet we finished that season with a record low amount of goals scored, ultimately also not creating many chances. So that leads to the question how much having one CB who's good on the ball actually adds to a team.

Looking at our problems, having technical fullbacks would probably add much more to our play than having a good passing centre back. A guy like Marcelo would create so much dangerous moments in attack for this current team, someone with that ability would really help against teams that drop deep and defend in their box with everything they have.

 

[Hans Moleman]

It's not as simple as that though. Blind played as a CB in Van Gaal's last season, he was excellent in possession throwing some lovely passes and being very solid in the build up. We also played a possession based system.

Spoiler

The passes start after 40 second or so

Yet we finished that season with a record low amount of goals scored, ultimately also not creating many chances. So that leads to the question how much having one CB who's good on the ball actually adds to a team.

van Gaal isn't our manager

 

[The Cat]

You'd rather an even bigger waste of money?

He would be a far better use of the money.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

van Gaal isn't our manager

So? His tactics were ultimately more likely to create proper attacking football than Mourinho's. And Blind played as a CB for Mourinho too last season, he's a good passer but it didn't transform our transition when he played.

Analyzing that great Barca team it's the same as with Marcelo for Real, no doubt having Pique there helped them a lot. But a prime Dani Alves constantly overlapping and linking up with Xavi, Messi, Iniesta is what took them to a surreal level of attacking and what teared teams dropping deep apart.

 

[lysglimt]

You'd rather an even bigger waste of money?

Alderweireld would improve our defense - but not massively. Bale would massively improve our attack. So even if Bale isn't my first priority - he would be a better investment than Alderweireld.

 

[breakout67]

So? His tactics were ultimately more likely to create proper attacking football than Mourinho's. And Blind played as a CB for Mourinho too last season, he's a good passer but it didn't transform our transition when he played.

Analyzing that great Barca team it's the same as with Marcelo for Real, no doubt having Pique there helped them a lot. But a prime Dani Alves constantly overlapping and linking up with Xavi, Messi, Iniesta is what took them to a surreal level of attacking and what teared teams dropping deep apart.

Van Gaal and attacking football

 

[Smores]

So? His tactics were ultimately more likely to create proper attacking football than Mourinho's. And Blind played as a CB for Mourinho too last season, he's a good passer but it didn't transform our transition when he played.

Analyzing that great Barca team it's the same as with Marcelo for Real, no doubt having Pique there helped them a lot. But a prime Dani Alves constantly overlapping and linking up with Xavi, Messi, Iniesta is what took them to a surreal level of attacking and what teared teams dropping deep apart.

I knew we still had closet Van Gal fans on here. How quickly people forget how bad we were under him.

 

[charlenefan]

I really don't see centre back as a priority. Especially with the figures being branded about for toby. Over the past seasons we've had moments of brain farts from all our centre backs but generally they haven't been a problem. The only big criticism I have is a lack of composure on the ball which adds to our poor general play. If toby takes up a large chunk of our transfer budget then that would be disappointing. We desperately need to fix the fullbacks and central midfield.

You dont see it as a priority yet you've highlighted that they're susceptible to brain farts (like in the cup final which cost us the game) and they contribute to our overall poor play?

 

[Nick7]

Van Gaal and attacking football

Seriously. We were more defensive under van Gaal than we ever have been under Mourinho.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Van Gaal and attacking football

I knew we still had closet Van Gal fans on here. How quickly people forget how bad we were under him.

That's not what I'm saying at all, so your comments are pretty silly. The pavlov reaction is funny though, shows how much trauma has been caused.

Just because Van Gaal completely failed, creating a situation where we ended up scoring a record low amount of goals like I mentioned, doesn't take away from the fact that his idea was to play attacking possesion based football. Mourinho's much more of a nihilist, ultimately only interested in the end result and allround solidity, which is something I actually quite like.

My point is simply that yes, a good passing CB would be nice, but don't forget we already tried that with Blind. A truly great attacking fullback is what I think would take our game to the next level.

Seriously. We were more defensive under van Gaal than we ever have been under Mourinho.

That's just bullshit. We looked like zombies under Van Gaal, but Mourinho constantly being accused of parking the bus by a certain group of people doesn't come out of thin air. Surely you remember that there have been plenty of games where we were 1-0 up and just dropped deep and let the opponents have the ball from the 60th minute mark onwards under Mourinho.

 

[pcaming]

I'm not too worried about the fees being quoted. Under Mou, we haven't really overpaid for anyone, regardless of what opp. fans might say about Lukaku or Pogba. I'm pretty sure we won't be paying anything near 75 million.

 

[Tomuś]

I knew we still had closet Van Gal fans on here. How quickly people forget how bad we were under him.

It may be because we are hardly any better to watch currently. Some people are sentimental towards Van Gaal because at least we could control games. I also don't think Van Gaal is defensive by nature, he just needs special players in the attacking formation to make the most of the possession his teams have and once they are not that good, it will prove extremely boring. Doesn't mean his set up or preparations were like parking the bus etc.

That saying I think we are overall better now and I'd still give Mourinho that one season.

 

[Lam]

I think the 75mn will be the overall value of the deal. Assuming he signs at 150k/week, transfer fee would be closer to 35mn.

I do not understand why we are signing a 29-year old CB, however good he is. Our defensive record last season was very good (with DDG doing what he does best) and if DDG is going to stay, it doesn't make much sense spending so much. If there is one thing Mou is good at, it is organizing a team to defend. We could probably sign 4 Mangala's and he'd still make them defend well.

Or probably, we want to sign a CB who can bring the ball out and allow Pogba to push further up when in possession.

 

[breakout67]

That's not what I'm saying at all, so your comments are pretty silly. The pavlov reaction is funny though, shows how much trauma has been caused.

Just because Van Gaal completely failed, creating a situation where we ended up scoring a record low amount of goals like I mentioned, doesn't take away from the fact that his idea was to play attacking possesion based football. Mourinho's much more of a nihilist, ultimately only interested in the end result and allround solidity, which is something I actually quite like.

My point is simply that yes, a good passing CB would be nice, but don't forget we already tried that with Blind. A truly great attacking fullback is what I think would take our game to the next level.

Van Gaal had a lot of ideas, he is a genius after all.

But, I do agree that fullbacks are the key for us. CB is just a cherry on top.

 

[villain]

75m they can feck off

Would rather go for De Ligt if we're shelling out that cash.

 

[haram]

I really don't see centre back as a priority. Especially with the figures being branded about for toby. Over the past seasons we've had moments of brain farts from all our centre backs but generally they haven't been a problem. The only big criticism I have is a lack of composure on the ball which adds to our poor general play. If toby takes up a large chunk of our transfer budget then that would be disappointing. We desperately need to fix the fullbacks and central midfield.

We might be able to buy players for all those positions.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

Seriously?

Lukaku, Matic and Pogba has been mint, its still early days for Lindelof and Bailly was our best CB up until injuries started cropping up. Mkhitaryan is Mou's only failure. Some people really need to get a grip. SAF's made plenty of messups in CBs from Prunier to Blanc right to Mickey, Berg and the Superstar. He also caused a hissy fit when the legendary Celio Silva wasn't given a work permit and went on spending ridiculous money for Rio after previously saying he wasn't worth 18m.

Pogba has been 'mint', really?! For the money paid, he has probably been a 6/10.

The point is he is looking for yet another CB after already spending £60 odd mil of 2 others, who have never even played together.

Berg was quite a regular starter in the treble winning season.

 

[Tomuś]

I may be the only one on here who thinks our first team central midfield shouldn't be a priority. A midield three consisting of in-form Matic-Herrera-Pogba is nothing to be ashamed of. Pity that ppl on here tend to change their mood about our players like a girl on a period. Not so long ago Herrera was 'a fantastic lil' player', one mysterious injury and being out of the first team for a couple of months and he's shit. I sometimes don't believe what I'm reading.

 

[charlenefan]

I may be the only one on here who thinks our first team central midfield shouldn't be a priority. A midield three consisting of in-form Matic-Herrera-Pogba is nothing to be ashamed of. Pity that ppl on here tend to change their mood about our players like a girl on a period. Not so long ago Herrera was 'a fantastic lil' player', one mysterious injury and being out of the first team for a couple of months and he's shit. I sometimes don't believe what I'm reading.

If Fellaini goes our central midfield options go down to 4, not great when we play a 4-3-3. We definitely need at least 1, in my mind though McTominay has already filled Carrick's number in the squad given how few games Carrick has actually played since Jose came in

 

[Tomuś]

If Fellaini goes our central midfield options go down to 4, not great when we play a 4-3-3. We definitely need at least 1, in my mind though McTominay has already filled Carrick's number in the squad given how few games Carrick has actually played since Jose came in

We deinitely need cover, esp for Matic as you could see he was knackered nearing the end of the season. I do think first team midfield is good enough and if it had been Juventus' or Chelsea's or whatsoever we would have been raving about it.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Levy wants £75m for Alderweireld, with negotiation ending between £55m-£65m probably.
Napoli wants £85m for Koulibaly, with negotiation ending between £60m-£70m probably.
Umtiti has a release clause at £55m at Barcelona.

Roughly the same price for the three of them. All three are calm, comfortable with the ball and can pass.
Alderweireld: More experienced, and knows the EPL, still the slowest of the three, and by far the oldest, 29 years old, and usually plays on the right side of the CB duo.
Koulibaly: 26 years old, has experience, very strong and tall, and for his size quite mobile. Plays on the left side of the CB due.
Umiti: 24 years old, the fastest and the one resembling Bailly the most. Umtiti is the one that is closest to being the modern ballplaying CB. Left footed. Umtiti is not the highest defender(181cm) and might struggle when we are parking the bus and the main defending options are areaduels.

• Between the three of them i would rank Koulibaly the most desirable, but also the one with highest risk regarding how he will handle the transition from Serie A to EPL. He would fit well with Mourinhos "pragmatic" tactics in that he would mostly be exposed to crosses and playing in a deep balanced defence.
  
• Umtiti would also post some risk regarding heigth and our playing style. If we were to start playing attacking football with more emphasis on fast ball movement and higher pressure, then Umtiti would without doubt be the prefered player and the best long term solution.
  
• Alderweireld is only a short term solution, and might be the best of the 3 for the two next seasons only. Still high price for a short term solution.

 

[Reddevildans]

You dont see it as a priority yet you've highlighted that they're susceptible to brain farts (like in the cup final which cost us the game) and they contribute to our overall poor play?

Defenders make mistakes and big ones too. But statistically ours less so than other teams. We've been defensively sound for a number of years. One major way of improving our play from the back is acquiring a midfielder who'll collect the ball off them. Pogba doesnt want to do it and Matic just isnt mobile enough. The last thing we want to see is Smalling running through the midfield looking clueless on the ball. Also, we are quick to buy players rather than improve the ones we have. Why cant we just tell the likes of Smalling and Rojo to stop booting the ball forward and stay composed more. This has been a problem for years when we're under pressure and just needs a tweek of mentality.

 

[RedMachine03]

 

[AKDevil]

He would improve our defensive options no doubt but he shouldn't be a priority, we don't NEED him.

Our defence is a real hindrance and we really shouldn’t start next season with any of the cup final back four in our first choice starting 11. If we have to rely on them for any significant stretch of next season no chance in hell of making a significant dent in gap between us and city.

And what do you mean by he shouldn’t be a priority? No he probably shouldn’t as we’ve spent £60m on two defenders but he is because they haven’t solved our problems.

 

[KM]

Fairly sensible article which should calm the nerves here.

Basically says two things, there's no chance of Spurs getting 75m for Toby and if they insist on Martial in the deal, then United could walk away from the deal. United don't want to sell Martial to a domestic club least of all.

 

[devilish]

Pogba has been 'mint', really?! For the money paid, he has probably been a 6/10.

The point is he is looking for yet another CB after already spending £60 odd mil of 2 others, who have never even played together.

Berg was quite a regular starter in the treble winning season.

How would you describe a midfielder who scored 6 goals and made 16 assists in 36 matches despite playing so deep most of the time? I suggest you go past the hype of failed frustrated managers tend pundits whose got a clear agenda against Paul Pogba.

Berg was NOT a regular started during the treble winning season. Johnsen and Stam were our first choice CB with Gaz and Irwin at the rear flanks

 

[devilish]

Actually one of the things that got me attracted to the forum. It's a good thing we have lots of opposition fans imo.

That's fair enough. Call me old fashioned but I wouldn't spend 1 hour in a rival forum. There again, I support a big club with a huge supporters base.

 

[devilish]

All good points.

Can I just add...I think the article in the Mirror which said we were looking for 75 million is rubbish.

Spurs and Levy aren't stupid. I think £50 million is a fair price. There's no way we sell him for less. But due to injuries and his age and contract situation we can't realistically expect 75 mill. I was being a bit facetious in my previous post.

Also I do have a feeling United are the only club in for him. So we don't have a bidding war over him.

Well Levy might try to be difficult as he always do when United are concerned. If Spurs are truly interested in Martial then maybe they are overpricing Tobi and underpricing Martial to get a good deal for themselves. Currently we're in the driving seat for obvious reasons but things can easily change if another top club goes into the deal. Hence why I believe we've got to have 2-3 options on board.

If you ask me I won't be surprised if we go for Bonucci. They are of similar age, both experienced and unlike Spurs AC Milan are deep financial shit.