Even if we bought him, we would still end up playing Jones and Smalling.
Toby Alderweireld
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And he be of little help to us in any case if City score 38 more goals than us again next year.
If Pochettino doesn't actually want Martial - and if Alderweireld won't sign a new contract - then the best scenario is for Levy to keep United hanging on for Toby for the whole summer ... and then sell him abroad at the last minute.
Jose won’t allow it. He will just move on to another target.
We’d be daft not to set a deadline....but then again given our recent transfer activities that will probably happen.
By a
We will simply move on to other targets and Toby will move abroad at a cheaper price.
Don't think Levy would want considering the increasing costs of building the new stadium. Plus it will piss off other players who are also wanting a pay increase or might leave to win a trophy or two.
Still think Levy will want to sell him abroad, linking a player to United is the best way to get interest elsewhere. No doubt United would want him but makes little sense selling to us. The player is going but makes no sense to strengthen a direct rival. The only thing is the temptation of a big offer, that stadium ain't cheap and would be mean they could get a great replacement. Don't trust Levy at all, they will get an excellent deal if he does leave.
We also need to think from Alderweireld's point of view. If United are in for him, he wouldn't want to go to a club of a lower level. Barca, Madrid, Bayern, Juve and PSG are the only other clubs that are a better option than us outside England. If none of those clubs are interested, then he'll either ask to be sold to us or refuse to leave.
I think the preference for Spurs is to sell abroad, has been with all the players they sold. But I don't think they will have much of a choice unless PSG get involved. The big Spanish 2 don't seem to be interested.
Nah Perisic aside we have generally had alternatives with the signings we have made e.g. last year we were going for Morata because we assumed Lukaku wouldn't be available to us.
Anyway Spurs holding onto Alderweireld will probably put a spanner in the works in their attempts to sign De Ligt.
I highly doubt Martial would want to sign for bloody Tottenham. He has higher aspirations than that, what’s fecking him over at United is Mourinho’s style - he would suit many other big teams around the world. London beats Manchester of course, but a Frenchie would appreciate the climate in Spain or Italy much better.
I would be very sad to see him leave, especially if he ends up at Spurs
I would be very sad to see him leave, especially if he ends up at Spurs
Probably a good idea to read my post again - "Rivals"
Alderwereld or Bonucci
Bonucci is 31, which is according to Caf standards he's done for/past it. Alderweireld will give us at least one year before hitting the 30 aka end of his career.
Meh. Feck caf standards. We need experience that can teach our young lads the final stages of defending
Well, seriously talking, I think Bonucci is better but I'll prefer Alderweireld due to experience in PL. I don't don't think Bonucci will leave the Italian football at this stage of his career.
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Well, seriously talking, I think Bonucci is better but I'll prefer Alderweireld due to experience in PL. I don't don't think Bonucci will leave the Italian football at this stage of his career.
He has sense but is to slow and week to execute on that intelligence in games vs the top 4 anyway. While we have others with some pace and strength but rely on that too much to get them out of jail for poor defensive perception.
Fixed for you
Alderweireld before he hurt his knee in October 2016 was one of the best center halves in the world, and clearly the best in the PL. He came back quickly from that injury - maybe too quick - to play in the unfortunately doomed CL campaign and he just wasn't quite the same after that. He's never been pacey, but since that injury he has lost half a step or so.
The first really worrying signs was when Spurs spent a club record fee on another right sided center half in the summer of 2017, and Alderweireld started out the season looking poor by his standards. Sanchez was preferred to him immediately in the center of the back 3 when Spurs played with all 3 (because of his pace) and then Alderweireld had the bad hamstring injury in November (which he re-injured in February). Coming back from that he has been a shell of himself, and frankly - Sanchez was just much better and beat him out of the spot alongside Vertonghen. Watch the Leicester game to end the season for example, where Pochettino had to sub Sanchez on for the final 15 minutes to close the match out since Alderweireld was struggling so badly with Vardy.
Is it possible he will return to health and his form returns? Obviously. Is it possible that the knee injury from 2016 and the nasty hamstring business this year has sapped him of some of his quickness and pace and he'll never be the same player again? Also possibly. The fact that Spurs have not made a huge obvious effort to resign him and the Sanchez purchase in the summer of 2017 smells a bit like the club does not actually trust him / his body to invest a huge sum of money into him at his age. Right now he is clearly the 2nd best RCB at the club (Sanchez was much better than him this past year) and Spurs have seemingly moved on from him.
Whoever spends huge money on him better be confident he's the same player from 2016-2017 and not the guy who has looked like a victim of a body swapping since the knee injury. Maybe he just needs time to get fully healthy and his form back. Maybe not. I think more than anything that is why the market is so soft for him - right now it seems like it is United bidding against themselves.
The first really worrying signs was when Spurs spent a club record fee on another right sided center half in the summer of 2017, and Alderweireld started out the season looking poor by his standards. Sanchez was preferred to him immediately in the center of the back 3 when Spurs played with all 3 (because of his pace) and then Alderweireld had the bad hamstring injury in November (which he re-injured in February). Coming back from that he has been a shell of himself, and frankly - Sanchez was just much better and beat him out of the spot alongside Vertonghen. Watch the Leicester game to end the season for example, where Pochettino had to sub Sanchez on for the final 15 minutes to close the match out since Alderweireld was struggling so badly with Vardy.
Is it possible he will return to health and his form returns? Obviously. Is it possible that the knee injury from 2016 and the nasty hamstring business this year has sapped him of some of his quickness and pace and he'll never be the same player again? Also possibly. The fact that Spurs have not made a huge obvious effort to resign him and the Sanchez purchase in the summer of 2017 smells a bit like the club does not actually trust him / his body to invest a huge sum of money into him at his age. Right now he is clearly the 2nd best RCB at the club (Sanchez was much better than him this past year) and Spurs have seemingly moved on from him.
Whoever spends huge money on him better be confident he's the same player from 2016-2017 and not the guy who has looked like a victim of a body swapping since the knee injury. Maybe he just needs time to get fully healthy and his form back. Maybe not. I think more than anything that is why the market is so soft for him - right now it seems like it is United bidding against themselves.
Came back from injury maybe too quickly... hmm... a certain glass guinea pig did that often and ruined his career.
That's a highly optimistic world view. We aren't setting the world alight nowadays.
We'd move on to other targets. There's also a good chance Levy would prefer to sell him abroad for less than sell him to us though. Since the Berbatov transfer Levy has had a real axe to grind with us.
Alderweireld > Bonucci, at any point in their careers. Bonucci was babysat by Chiellini and Barzagli, and only looks decent as a sweeper in a back 3 - in a two he looks mediocre. Toby is the real deal.
Where else would he go? Toby wants a huge salary as well (the main reason he is leaving Spurs) and we are one of the few clubs who can offer that.
Chelsea, Liverpool, juventus, any number of clubs.
We can offer more than any of those clubs.
Interesting stuff
Not sure how you drew such a conclusion but Bonucci for me any day. Especially for this particular United team. Bonucci brings loads of experience, a winning mentality, great passing range, ability to read a game and organise the back line/midfield and of course, initiate attacks from the back. It is unfair to say he has been largely Carried by Chiellini. Bonucci has earned his stripes and you don't play almost 300 games for Juve and close to a hundred for Italy being carried. He is technically solid and will hardly hoof balls out of defence. Pep didn't call him one of his best players ever for nothing. If he is available, I say we go for him. We already have two young center halves in Bailly and Lindelof. Let's get some experience in. Jones out, Bonucci in and more game time to Bailly and Lindelof, will completely transform that team especially if we get two new full backs.
I already mentioned Juventus. I was listing clubs better than us outside UK as the poster to whom I replied mentioned that Levy would prefer to sell him abroad.
When we sold those players there were no players at Madrid or City that we wanted or who wanted to move to us also. So it's different from the Martial situation where the player is keen / open to moving to us.
Where did you get that player is keen to move to Spurs? Excuse me for not reading too many ITK stuff.
Not a single reputed paper have gone with this story, only Standard have reported it and it's more hopeful and guesswork rather than any substance in the article.
Absolute bollocks. See Morata.
Didn't know all that about Toby, interesting.
This is sure
From a couple of very credible Spurs ITKs. We were quite close to signing Martial last summer apparently. Closer than the fans and media would have led you to believe. Mourinho put the buffers on it eventually and United weren't keen to deal. I think, mainly because you didn't secure that LW from Juventus.
However this summer is different on all sides. Martial has been left out of the World Cup squad, he's not played regularly enough. Mourinho clearly doesn't trust him or rate him, 12 months is a long time in football. Where last summer Martial probably thought, I can turn this around here, this season has pushed him over the edge and he definitely wants out. He can see his career stagnating at United, as it is.
Now I'm not saying I know he definitely wants to move to Spurs, nor am I saying we will definitely sign him, but in my opinion based on what I've seen and read from various sources, he would be keen on Spurs and we are definitely keen on him. Whether or not a deal happens, who knows? However seeing as your manager is hot on Alderweireld, I can see Martial coming the other way.
No doubt both players will have other options, it's not just United and Spurs.
Call bollocks on this for a few reasons.
If you are talking direct scoring then, yeah.
A better base at the back and players who can actually pass out will have a knock on effect to the rest of the .
Smalling, Bailly, Toby, Lindelof and Rojo would be enough options. Can’t count on Jones physically and always capable of a train wreck when fit. Could’ve been so much more.
If there is 1 outfield position where you want experience and some leadership then it is at centreback. Since our current options are still young or not good enough to elevate us to the next level, we desperately need a quality experienced defender around the 28-31 years old mark. You would still expect them to give us at least 3 years of quality service, which is more than enough for me as in that time the likes of Bailly, Lindelof, Fosu-Mensah and Tuanzebe can develop, providing they are still at the club!
With Alderweireld being 29, I would expect providing he gets over his recent injury issues would give us at least 4 years (be 33 in 4 years time). At his best he is arguably in the top 3 best defenders in the league, some say he is the best. Premier League proven, attacking threat from set-pieces, leadership qualities, good with the ball at his feet. Ticks a lot of boxes for me, so I am all for us signing him! The only main concern for me would be his lack of games and injuries in the past season and a bit.
With Alderweireld being 29, I would expect providing he gets over his recent injury issues would give us at least 4 years (be 33 in 4 years time). At his best he is arguably in the top 3 best defenders in the league, some say he is the best. Premier League proven, attacking threat from set-pieces, leadership qualities, good with the ball at his feet. Ticks a lot of boxes for me, so I am all for us signing him! The only main concern for me would be his lack of games and injuries in the past season and a bit.
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