Tiemoue Bakayoko

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bucky said:
Yes, purely in terms of talent. Saw him for the under 19s of France 18 months ago or so and he was outstanding among a group of talented players. IMO we need a seasoned goalscoring threat a bit more than another youngster, but if we stand a chance we should definitely try to get him.

I get what you are saying with Fabinho, I'm just sceptical that we have a chance of signing Weigl this summer and Fabinho might be the best choice for now. The fact that he could play at right-back would obviously help enormously and possibly he could take over from Valencia there, if we sign a better passer later on. Danilo, Paredes and Strootman could work as well, but with all those players would come an uncertainty we should be avoiding.
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Looks like the club might share your view of Mbappe if the stories of us offering enormous sums for him are true. I agree we could probably use a more proven goal scorer but only Griezmann and Aubameyang are obtainable of the quality I'd want to see at United.

If we got Fabinho it would leave us the option of playing a playmkaker at #8 and there are more of those around than DLP's like Weigl, so there are work arounds for Jose with this midfield I think.
 
Devil may care said:
Looks like the club might share your view of Mbappe if the stories of us offering enormous sums for him are true. I agree we could probably use a more proven goal scorer but only Griezmann and Aubameyang are obtainable of the quality I'd want to see at United.

If we got Fabinho it would leave us the option of playing a playmkaker at #8 and there are more of those around than DLP's like Weigl, so there are work arounds for Jose with this midfield I think.
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Not sure there are that many, especially considering the level we need to improve on Herrera.
 
bucky said:
Not sure there are that many, especially considering the level we need to improve on Herrera.
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I don't think it's so much a case of improving on Herrera as it is being able to use a different type of player in that other #8 role if we had Fabinho holding.
 
"Deep lying playmakers" don't work in the Premier League.

Strong tough tackling CBs who run up and down do. Someone in the mold of Keane, Vieira, Kante, etc.

Weigl, Busquets, etc would be crap buys for us. Bakayoko would fit us better.
 
bucky said:
Ah, okay. Misunderstood.
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I just feel one of the 3 in the midfield composition needs to be more a metronome who can set the tempo, if we have a full on DM like Faboinho we could get that from a #8 rather than where we've been getting it from Carrick in the DLP role.
 
Jaybomb said:
"Deep lying playmakers" don't work in the Premier League.

Strong tough tackling CBs who run up and down do. Someone in the mold of Keane, Vieira, Kante, etc.

Weigl, Busquets, etc would be crap buys for us. Bakayoko would fit us better.
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:confused: Carrick, Alonso and Scholes bossed the PL, and those all muscle no brains CM's will see us crippled in Europe and Pogba will be wasted with some CM charging around and not providing him with a safety net.
 
Devil may care said:
I just feel one of the 3 in the midfield composition needs to be more a metronome who can set the tempo, if we have a full on DM like Faboinho we could get that from a #8 rather than where we've been getting it from Carrick in the DLP role.
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Maybe I did understand. I don't think there are that many #8s with the passing that would be an upgrade on Herrera or Pogba.
 
bucky said:
Maybe I did understand. I don't think there are that many #8s with the passing that would be an upgrade on Herrera or Pogba.
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I think there are several good oiptions that are not star names or are younger, but to me Pogba is not a playmaker, he's too much like Gerrard, and Herrera just doesn't have the range or variety in his passing IMO.
 
Devil may care said:
I think there are several good oiptions that are not star names or are younger, but to me Pogba is not a playmaker, he's too much like Gerrard, and Herrera just doesn't have the range or variety in his passing IMO.
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Who is in your opinion?
 
Devil may care said:
Parades. Tielemans, Dahoud, Cyprien, Trigueros and our very own Pereira.
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Cyprien has torn his ACL recently. Sadly, it looked very bad and for now he probably isn't an option. The others could be alternatives, but wouldn't it ask a bit much of any of those players to be an instant starter?
 
Devil may care said:
:confused: Carrick, Alonso and Scholes bossed the PL, and those all muscle no brains CM's will see us crippled in Europe and Pogba will be wasted with some CM charging around and not providing him with a safety net.
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I wouldn't say they bossed the Prem. Alonso never even won it.

Scholes wasn't a deep lying playmaker either. He was more of a CAM in his prime and a #8. When I think of deep lying playmakers, I think of Pirlo and the like. I don't think those type of players are suited to the Prem. We need someone more aggressive and energetic.

We replaced Keane with Carrick. So why should we replace Carrick with someone like him?
 
bucky said:
Cyprien has torn his ACL recently. Sadly, it looked very bad and for now he probably isn't an option. The others could be alternatives, but wouldn't it ask a bit much of any of those players to be an instant starter?
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Oh, I didn't know that about Cyprien, that's horrible as he's had a breakout season. Yes it is asking a lot, they'd need time to blood in, but at least there are a few good options in that role, with the DLP there's really only Weigl, none of the other playmkaing younger CM's have the defensive side.

Jaybomb said:
I wouldn't say they bossed the Prem. Alonso never even won it.

Scholes wasn't a deep lying playmaker either. He was more of a CAM in his prime and a #8. When I think of deep lying playmakers, I think of Pirlo and the like. I don't think those type of players are suited to the Prem. We need someone more aggressive and energetic.

We replaced Keane with Carrick. So why should we replace Carrick with someone like him?
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Him not winning a PL medal doesn't alter the fact Alonso was a world class CM in the PL and was in a successful side that won a CL and constantly competed in the league and Europe. Scholes was a deep lying playmaker for at least 7 years of his career and won 5 PL titles while playing in that role.

Aggression and energy are no substitue for brains and techncial ability, and Pogba needs a brain and a defensively calm player with him, not some guy running around like the world is on fire with no positional discipline or ability on the ball.
 
That's an awful lot of dough for someone people in here are basically calling average! Doubt Conte or the club would sanction such a fee unless they thought he can become top class.

Not sure how trustworthy that rumor is, though.
 
Not really sure about the player tbh. If he scored more I'd love the news. Maybe he can add that to his game though. He's still young. That said, I'm not sure how reliable that source is either.
 
Haven't been massively impressed with him from what I've seen, having said that he could turn out to be a great player in the future with the right system.

For that fee, it's a pretty good deal in today's market.
 
I said after seeing him a couple of times against Spurs and City that he looked somewhat effective but the least talented of the many, many players I really like in that Monaco side.

Look a bit of a "Nicky Butt" type player in that he will run around putting himself about and winning the ball back but mainly because he gave it away in the first place! I would reserve judgement until I see more of him but I dont think we should be tareting players purely on physical attributes
 
Orc said:
That's an awful lot of dough for someone people in here are basically calling average! Doubt Conte or the club would sanction such a fee unless they thought he can become top class.

Not sure how trustworthy that rumor is, though.
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Why are you so sure it was Conte and not Emenalo, behind the deal? Anyhow, 23yo top class potential MFs go for more than 35m at the moment, so I don't think that's what your club believes.

I hope you get him so we get to see him closer (you're gonna spent on someone or other) but personally I've not been impressed. My only worry would be Fabinho is unlikely to be sold in the same summer.
 
MadMike said:
Why are you so sure it was Conte and not Emenalo, behind the deal? Anyhow, 23yo top class potential MFs go for more than 35m at the moment, so I don't think that's what your club believes.

I hope you get him so we get to see him closer (you're gonna spent on someone or other) but personally I've not been impressed. My only worry would be Fabinho is unlikely to be sold in the same summer.
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Well 35m would be our most expensive signing since Torres so for Chelsea recently it's very expensive. If this rumor is true, I can't believe we'd spend more on this kid than we did on the likes of Hazard, Kante, Costa, and Fabregas if we didn't think his potential warranted it.
 
It goes to show how shallow the talent pool is for that position if Chelsea felt the need to seize the initiative on him this early.
 
Devil may care said:
I think there are several good oiptions that are not star names or are younger, but to me Pogba is not a playmaker, he's too much like Gerrard, and Herrera just doesn't have the range or variety in his passing IMO.
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Since 'playmaker' means different things to different schools of thought in football, I might probably be off point here but let me assume you mean the more traditional playmaker. I actually think Pogba will make a very fine playmaker. Traditionally, a playmaker is the guy who controls the flow of the team's offensive play, and is often involved in passing moves that lead to goals. Vision, technique, a cutting passing ability, creativity, decent dribbling skills and a knack for shooting when openings show up, are traits one would typically find in a traditional playmaker. Pogba has all these traits. I know he played mostly from the left of the attacking front in Juve but think about it, Pogba's uniqueness is his hybrid of traits that you rarely find packed into one player. I think this is exactly why his managers have found him to be the easiest person to sacrifice when it comes to positioning. In the Euros, because he was more versatile, Pogba could be pulled back and asked to take a less offensive role, so he was. In United, Jose could do the same in his preferred 4-2-3-1 formation, when it seemed Pogba was having a bad patch going forward. Rather than remove him outrightly, it seemed an easier option to reposition him because he was the type of player you could move around easily due to the different abilities in his locker.

I think Pogba can be a pretty good offensive midfield playmaker.
 
MyOnlySolskjaer said:
What's he got to do with Willian?
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From a midfield size perspective rather than positional similarity perspective, the more midfielder Chelsea buy, the slimmer the chances of regular play for Willian. Word has it that Chelsea may also sign James Rodriguez and or Isco especially due to the Hazard to Madrid rumour. Willian is about 28 if I am right. He's running out of time. Also, 2018 is World Cup year. He wants to play.
 
GM K said:
From a midfield size perspective rather than positional similarity perspective, the more midfielder Chelsea buy, the slimmer the chances of regular play for Willian. Word has it that Chelsea may also sign James Rodriguez and or Isco especially due to the Hazard to Madrid rumour. Willian is about 28 if I am right. He's running out of time. Also, 2018 is World Cup year. He wants to play.
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Willian would fit more towards the profile of a forward than midfield. That's where he replaced Hazard last weekend and won the game for Chelsea. James/Isco, sure but signing Bakayoko does nothing to indicate any availability of Willian.
 
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Orc said:
What does Willian have to do with a midfielder?
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MadMike said:
Willian is not a CM so I don't see the connection. He'd be replacing Mikel
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MyOnlySolskjaer said:
What's he got to do with Willian?
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Did I say he was a CM??

I was more thinking that a decent player (Willian) who isn't a guaranteed starter already, may think he might get less game time if Bakayoko comes.

Even if not a like for like, buying further players (apart from goalies, defenders and No.9's) would surely have an impact.

GM K said:
Good observation. If he goes to CFC, then surely, Willian will be available.
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Thanks.
 
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