Cheers for that. Why did other wrestlers not like him? Was he a knob backstage?
Television Tho Prop Grops Throps
- Thread starter Big-Red
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I have read that he came from a pro football background and he thought he was a bigger star than most wrestlers, so he would demand for a fatter paycheck and greater position in the company. He also wasn't good in the ring or on the mic, and wrestlers were pissed that he was picked ahead of Bret Hart. A lot of people backstage felt that Bret deserved the chance to head the company after Hogan left.
So SD was a joke... Can't believe I'm saying this but currently, Raw is miles ahead...
Just found out he's a united fan. All is forgiven.
"Glorious" and Nakamura's theme move over, there's a new king in town...
They've just made this even more of a mess by taking the briefcase off Carmella. She actually did a good job with her promo at the start of the show, making the most of awful booking at MITB. Just let her carry on, she got momentum from the win, now they've fecked that up too.
After that promo I think WWE have nailed it, to be honest.
Smackdown had no standout women heels. Natalya couldn't act if her life depended on it, Lana is probably supposed to be heel but fans like her too much, Tamina? No-one cares.
Carmella was coming out to silence before MITB but got more boos than anyone else last night. I think she'll win it again next week in some heel-ish way, without Ellsworth.
Smackdown had no standout women heels. Natalya couldn't act if her life depended on it, Lana is probably supposed to be heel but fans like her too much, Tamina? No-one cares.
Carmella was coming out to silence before MITB but got more boos than anyone else last night. I think she'll win it again next week in some heel-ish way, without Ellsworth.
Shes right though. In a match with no rules, how can you... break rules. Aha. Her promo was excellent.
I'm actually envisioning a scenario where someone else wins but Carmella blindsides them and steals the case meaning the other person can't cash it in.
The talk of Lex Luger has reminded me that he was the greatest overseller in the era of overselling. People make less noise being electrocuted than he used to do in a regular match.
I used to think he over sold, but reckoned I was the only one who thought this. That video is hilarious
Did anyone notice that cringe moment in SD:
Charlotte to Natalya: you better shut up before I turn your face into Ellsworth.
To which Tamina says: Charlotte, you better stop taking or you'll become Ellsworth.
Queue awkward silence
Such a tune!
Yeah I thought she just did the same insult right back at herI used to think he over sold, but reckoned I was the only one who thought this. That video is hilarious
Did anyone notice that cringe moment in SD:
Charlotte to Natalya: you better shut up before I turn your face into Ellsworth.
To which Tamina says: Charlotte, you better stop taking or you'll become Ellsworth.
Queue awkward silence
Never liked Mike or Maria but this theme is very catchy!
I can't say for how long CM Punk was outselling Cena, but the fact that he was, alongside being universally loved rather than having a 70/30 audience, surely should've earnt him some trust to be the guy, no? He was never given the opportunity.
I'm sure WWE sabotages specific wrestlers. Look at Zack Ryder. Got completely over on his own from his youtube channel, yet it took him, like, years for him to get any merchandise. I think they started selling the headband things after he was already buried with that Cena/girlfriend whatever storyline. Why not sell them at the height of his popularity?
The same with Punk. He had a babyface DVD coming out and they turn him heel before it's release. He even said after leaving WWE that by turning heel as a favour to Vince he was giving up a tonne of money. You'd think with the amount of money face Punk was bringing in they'd have gone even further with him. Especially with the DVD coming out.
Do you remember Bryan at the height of his popularity? Instead of capitalizing on it, they also try to turn him heel by sticking him with the Wyatt's. When that didn't work, they turned him back face resulting in one of the biggest pops/crowd participations post AE and what do they do? They leave him completely out of the rumble and give him a ugly shirt.
I don't think it was unfairly taken away from him. It was The Rock. Probably the biggest star in the world. It was the run itself that was a disappointment. Even on RAWs, he was on the middle of the card a lot of the time I believe.
No, I don't think anyone thought Punk/Bryan/Aj were the biggest stars in their periods of being on top because, though they were the most over, they never were treated as the stars. Not even the "smarks" thought that. This is the problem. Even though Cena isn't the most over, and has drove away literally millions with his run, he's still treated as the star of the company. Hogan, Austin, Rock all turned heel despite being more over than Cena ever was or will be despite selling a tonne of merch. In fact, thanks to turning heel, Hogan sold even more with the NWO shirts.
I think, overall, AJ Styles is the most over wrestler in the company right now but Reigns and Cena are still the stars. If they gave AJ a Reigns/Cena run as a face, and showed the faith in him that they show in those two, It'd be great because AJ is over with everyone. Even as a heel he was, and that's like Rock/Austin. Both, as heels, got the most over on their repsective rosters and the WWF ran with them as the face to great success. WWE aren't on some great run atm or have a rival company breathing down their necks so there's no harm in trying this. They of course won't.
I can't really comment on Orton's recent months but he's had, what, a decade of being a main eventer compared to the others I mentioned? It isn't comparible for me. If you look at the entirety of his career, I think he has been pretty selfless, though.
I don't really remember 'Taker being in the midcard in his championship runs so you'd have to refresh my memory there.
I agree that wrestlers have to be selfless for the sake of the company but why doesn't this apply to everyone? Letting others who aren't Cena/Reigns have a run on top due to getting over isn't selfish. It's selfish to keep those two on top of everyone else despite whatever circumstance.
@Yagami You're talking about being over and receiving a pop, but a lot of what you say is based on the reactions from the audience at each particular event. Vince's decisions will be based on money, and it's fairly obvious that Cena and now Reigns are the money guys. Punk and Bryan might have been very over with almost the entirety of the live audiences, but the majority of WWE consumers do not go to live events. They're paying for the network, buying merch and ordering PPVs. If you were to take Reigns' live reaction as being indicative of the money he brings in, you'd say he brings in very little because everyone seems to hate him, but the reality is that a large chunk of WWE fans love him.
This talk of Punk and others being sabotaged is a bit odd. Vince isn't hurting his own chances of making money. You're also talking about Punk's long title reign like it wasn't really a thing, when it's still the longest title reign of the modern era (435 days) which happens to be the 6th longest of all time. The only people with longer reigns are Hogan, Backlund, Morales and Sammartino.
There's a trend I've noticed where people like to talk about wrestlers getting themselves over, and it's the company holding them back, but let's be honest, if Vince has the chance to make money of someone, he will. You only have to look at Jinder Mahal being WWE champ to see that.
This talk of Punk and others being sabotaged is a bit odd. Vince isn't hurting his own chances of making money. You're also talking about Punk's long title reign like it wasn't really a thing, when it's still the longest title reign of the modern era (435 days) which happens to be the 6th longest of all time. The only people with longer reigns are Hogan, Backlund, Morales and Sammartino.
There's a trend I've noticed where people like to talk about wrestlers getting themselves over, and it's the company holding them back, but let's be honest, if Vince has the chance to make money of someone, he will. You only have to look at Jinder Mahal being WWE champ to see that.
I'm not saying they should be the face just because they're receiving a pop because, if that were the case, I'd say Ambrose could be the top guy but, for me, he really isn't all that. It's all to do with marketing. Reigns, like Cena, bring in the most money because WWE make them out to be the be all and end all of the show. If Reigns was booked like, say, Ambrose, in that he's a midcarder who fills in the main event here and there, I don't think he'd sell as much as he does, and vice versa in that Ambrose, if treated like Reigns/Cena, would probably sell the most. The difference would be that Ambrose would bring a lot more to the table alonside merchandise sales, and I say this as someone who isn't really a fan of his. Same could be said about a number of others.
AJ Styles is head and shoulders above everyone in the company at the minute and if he were given the type of booking that Reigns/Cena get now that he's face he'd bring a lot more than just merchandise sales in.
I honestly don't hold his reign in that high of a regard when WWE themselves treated it as an afterthought to Cena/HHH until Rock came back. I think Vince is fine with sabotaging others because he knows it won't come back to bite him as he's too powerful. Especially those who get themselves over despite of their booking á la Ryder, and those who prove to be better than what they were previously treated like in another company á la Christian.
Mahal is Vince's own "creation". Without Vince suddenly declaring his love for Mahal due to his, erm, physique transformation, Jinder would've stayed irrelevant because he's awful. He has a good look, and a nice entrance, but is rubbish on the mic and in the ring.
Someone who got over by themselves and proved to be marketable like Zack Ryder and Christian were treated very poorly and they were never given the chance that a handpicked guy in Mahal was given despite both having proven more because they weren't liked enough. It's all favouritism.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to watching ROH's PPV today.
Does anyone know where I can find ROHs Best in the World 2017? I can't find it anywhere!
Edit: Found it!
Edit: Found it!
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Anyone watching GLOW on Netflix? It's pretty good. Fun seeing all the wrestler cameos too.
I watched the first three eps. Very little actual wrestling (which is probably for the best!) but a fun show.
PM please!
Done! Sorry for the late reply but I've only just seen your post a few mins ago. You might have already found a source but just incase I sent you the one I found anyway.
Oh, and @Mark_GrumpyLion and anyone else who follows ROH, check out Daniel Bryan's twitter post after watching the PPV! 
Oh, and @Mark_GrumpyLion and anyone else who follows ROH, check out Daniel Bryan's twitter post after watching the PPV!
At least he admits hes trolling
G1 Climax blocks announced. Getting Omega/Okada 3.
Lavar Ball was on Raw
Raw was shit as usual.
Samoa Joe is their saving grace. He's great. The Wyatt v Rollins thing is the worst.
Samoa Joe is their saving grace. He's great. The Wyatt v Rollins thing is the worst.
I think there is an element of truth in it, though. I do believe he wants to wrestle and he will go to ROH/somewhere eventually if WWE don't work out a schedule to let him.At least he admits hes trolling
I've only read up and seen a few bits here and there of this RAW but, man, I need to see his segment if he said what I've heard that he said.Lavar Ball was on Raw
They've completely killed Wyatt because everyone knows he's only talk. When has he actually won a feud? For me, he's right up there with AJ in who they should be pushing at the top. He'd make a great tweener who rages against the machine.
- Joe/Brock has been absolutely brilliant so far, mainly thanks to Joe and Heyman
- Main Event was good, just a shame that Emma was once again completely buried and some are losing interest in Bayley because they've booked her so terribly. Sasha/Alexa should be good.
- Nice to see some finally giving Cass some appreciation. Not anything special in the ring but he's always been a good talker, last weeks segment was great and so was this weeks.
- Lavar Ball continues to be an absolute tit and his son's aren't far behind him..."BEAT THAT N****S ASS!!!" on live television , what a tool
- Strowman is so fecking fun
Hopefully the Women's MITB is given at least 20-25 minutes tonight and they're allowed to do a few big spots.
- Main Event was good, just a shame that Emma was once again completely buried and some are losing interest in Bayley because they've booked her so terribly. Sasha/Alexa should be good.
- Nice to see some finally giving Cass some appreciation. Not anything special in the ring but he's always been a good talker, last weeks segment was great and so was this weeks.
- Lavar Ball continues to be an absolute tit and his son's aren't far behind him..."BEAT THAT N****S ASS!!!" on live television , what a tool
- Strowman is so fecking fun
Hopefully the Women's MITB is given at least 20-25 minutes tonight and they're allowed to do a few big spots.
Loving the Joe/Lesnar feud right now - they probably need to let Lesnar speak a bit (not too much) in the coming weeks just to add something new to the mix. I very much expect a great match with a lot more technical work at Great Balls of Fire (probably the worst PPV name ever for what it's worth). Obviously, the majority of the match will just be a brawl ala Lesnar/Goldberg which I am absolutely fine with, it's just that the pair of them - especially Joe - can do so much more as well. The eventual match needs a good number of minutes to let the guys work.
Women's division is actually high quality right now - I'm sure Big Show or Kane said in an interview a few months ago that the Women's Division was something he expected to surprise people and grow in stature. Definitely not wrong, it's no longer the bathroom break it once was after the fitties with titties stage and up until we got the likes of Paige, Charlotte and the current roster pushing on.
Can't say I was a fan of splitting Enzo and Cass up right now, as the Tag Division only has two or three teams per show IMO that would be believable champions. I think they need to push some guys into tagging up a bit more, but I do understand the decision as well. Downside is I am not sold on the idea that either of these guys can take the next step currently. Cass as the 'big guy' is pretty much outdone by everyone else of a similar stature. When we've got Strowman and Corbin on the top card as monster heels, I can't see Cass getting there, but hope I'm wrong. Enzo could maybe get into some kind of IC Title mix, but that's where I'd see Cass ending up as well so I don't know... They're gonna have to face off soon. Big Show will have a say. I think EnShow winning the Tag Titles would be fun to see a jealousy angle from Cass. Lots of opportunities at least!
Bray Wyatt is probably my favourite wrestler. He's the best on the mic and great in the ring too, but as others have said.. He's just losing all credibility because he will eventually lose to whoever he is in competition with. They need to let him overcome Rollins, but since he's the cover of WWE 2K18 it's not going to happen. Wyatt just gets used to put over everyone else and it's going to be a huge climb back - it might not even happen for him.
Women's division is actually high quality right now - I'm sure Big Show or Kane said in an interview a few months ago that the Women's Division was something he expected to surprise people and grow in stature. Definitely not wrong, it's no longer the bathroom break it once was after the fitties with titties stage and up until we got the likes of Paige, Charlotte and the current roster pushing on.
Can't say I was a fan of splitting Enzo and Cass up right now, as the Tag Division only has two or three teams per show IMO that would be believable champions. I think they need to push some guys into tagging up a bit more, but I do understand the decision as well. Downside is I am not sold on the idea that either of these guys can take the next step currently. Cass as the 'big guy' is pretty much outdone by everyone else of a similar stature. When we've got Strowman and Corbin on the top card as monster heels, I can't see Cass getting there, but hope I'm wrong. Enzo could maybe get into some kind of IC Title mix, but that's where I'd see Cass ending up as well so I don't know... They're gonna have to face off soon. Big Show will have a say. I think EnShow winning the Tag Titles would be fun to see a jealousy angle from Cass. Lots of opportunities at least!
Bray Wyatt is probably my favourite wrestler. He's the best on the mic and great in the ring too, but as others have said.. He's just losing all credibility because he will eventually lose to whoever he is in competition with. They need to let him overcome Rollins, but since he's the cover of WWE 2K18 it's not going to happen. Wyatt just gets used to put over everyone else and it's going to be a huge climb back - it might not even happen for him.
Two great things about Raw for me:
1) Booking of the Gauntlet match was spot on. The segment of Nia and Alexa made you think Nia is a shoe in, especially after brushing aside Bayley, you'd think the squash was worthless if Nia didn't go on to win. Then Sasha eventually comes out and they have a great mini-match with Sasha taking a clean victory whilst keeping Nia's dominance entact. Sasha deserves a push again, she's been on the side long enough and is far, far, far, far better than Bayley or anyone else on that roster who isn't wearing the Women's title.
2) Samoa Joe giving zero fecks. So great to see a non conventional heel whose just out looking for a fight regardless of who it is. They need more of that, not this dilly dally running away or relying on henchmen to do some dirty work. Strawman and Joe are being booked very well, just hope one or both of them get a deserved win at GREAT BALLS OF FIRE. Shit PPV name but Heyman sold it well in his segment, the man can sell a virus if he wanted.
Other noteworthy changes:
- Goldst and R-Truth made to look remotely interesting. Seemed impossible to breath into life, and its still semi meh, but it's semi decent too which is a much better improvement.
- General use of jobbers to add depth is pleasing to see. Bo Dallas, O'Neil, Axel etc. were otherwise doing feck all. It's still a bit mashed up but you can see the direction they're going in. Seeing Titus actually meddle with the Cruserweight brand and having a direct angle is a big improvement than comparing dick sizes with randoms backstage for 3 weeks.
Things that need improvement:
- Wrap up the Corey Graves/Cass/Enzo angle. No one cares because its just too vague. Corey is a good heel commentator and he should just be keeping that role, not meddling with Wrestlers or it gets messy (unless its well written, anyway).
- Elias Sampson is a bit meh. And I wish they did a bit more with Balor and Seth. Wyatt continues to be a broken tape on loop. Glad his WWE title run ended early, he's boring to watch and makes no sense when he cuts promos. The man lives on the Titontron.
I'm somewhat convinced they swapped creative during the draft. Suddenly Smackdown has gone to shits and Raw has perked up.
1) Booking of the Gauntlet match was spot on. The segment of Nia and Alexa made you think Nia is a shoe in, especially after brushing aside Bayley, you'd think the squash was worthless if Nia didn't go on to win. Then Sasha eventually comes out and they have a great mini-match with Sasha taking a clean victory whilst keeping Nia's dominance entact. Sasha deserves a push again, she's been on the side long enough and is far, far, far, far better than Bayley or anyone else on that roster who isn't wearing the Women's title.
2) Samoa Joe giving zero fecks. So great to see a non conventional heel whose just out looking for a fight regardless of who it is. They need more of that, not this dilly dally running away or relying on henchmen to do some dirty work. Strawman and Joe are being booked very well, just hope one or both of them get a deserved win at GREAT BALLS OF FIRE. Shit PPV name but Heyman sold it well in his segment, the man can sell a virus if he wanted.
Other noteworthy changes:
- Goldst and R-Truth made to look remotely interesting. Seemed impossible to breath into life, and its still semi meh, but it's semi decent too which is a much better improvement.
- General use of jobbers to add depth is pleasing to see. Bo Dallas, O'Neil, Axel etc. were otherwise doing feck all. It's still a bit mashed up but you can see the direction they're going in. Seeing Titus actually meddle with the Cruserweight brand and having a direct angle is a big improvement than comparing dick sizes with randoms backstage for 3 weeks.
Things that need improvement:
- Wrap up the Corey Graves/Cass/Enzo angle. No one cares because its just too vague. Corey is a good heel commentator and he should just be keeping that role, not meddling with Wrestlers or it gets messy (unless its well written, anyway).
- Elias Sampson is a bit meh. And I wish they did a bit more with Balor and Seth. Wyatt continues to be a broken tape on loop. Glad his WWE title run ended early, he's boring to watch and makes no sense when he cuts promos. The man lives on the Titontron.
I'm somewhat convinced they swapped creative during the draft. Suddenly Smackdown has gone to shits and Raw has perked up.
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I used to be heavily into wcw and WWF in the 80s and 90s but can't get into this new generation
Sadly this new generation has to work under a completely different mandate to the guys in the 80s 90s and early 2000s.
Yeah I get that but the days of the 4 horsemen etc were just so much more entertaining. I love seeing old matches.
Not gonna happen on a B/C level PPV but they need Joe to beat Brock. Have him win and then hold it to maybe Rumble and lose it back to Brock if they want Brock as champ going into WM (to drop to Reigns).
If you like wrestling as opposed to sports entertainment new Japan and nxt are both very watchable
That might be the best arse in wrestling history.
WWE or wrestling as a whole? As @Sparky_Hughes said, New Japan, NXT and, in my opinion, ROH are some good options for you to try. They're no 4 horsemen or NWO, but the Bullet Club have been tearing it up these past few years.
WWE have shown they can still do some good things, too, but they're such a stubborn company now they have no competition.
You see, I'm not usually a fan of this spot, but AJ makes this!
Hopefully his wife wasn't watching, though!This would be my ideal scenario bar, obviously, Reigns!
The problem for me with the Main Roster is vinces arrogance and desperation to distance himself from the label wrestling performer. Look at how many white hot acts come up from nxt only to have everything that made them popular changed. The old got needs to go, he's the Rooney of wweWWE or wrestling as a whole? As @Sparky_Hughes said, New Japan, NXT and, in my opinion, ROH are some good options for you to try. They're no 4 horsemen or NWO, but the Bullet Club have been tearing it up these past few years.
WWE have shown they can still do some good things, too, but they're such a stubborn company now they have no competition.
You see, I'm not usually a fan of this spot, but AJ makes this!
This would be my ideal scenario bar, obviously, Reigns!