Television Tho Prop Grops Throps

Castia said:
His character sucks but he can put on a match, he must have been in 4-5 match of the year contenders last year.
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Well, I can only go by the character as I don't know the guy himself. I haven't watched WWE these last couple of years so I can't comment on his recent matches.

I've noticed the "hate" for Cena die down since Reigns' run, but they're both a huge, huge problem.
 
JoaquinJoaquin said:
It's like WWE are trying to push it with how bad they can make their product, Like WCW did towards the end. It's a good job there isn't any proper US based competitors for the WWE because if there was they would be in big trouble.
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I agree it's terrible.

I also disagree with the poster above (can't remember who it was) saying the Women's match must have been good because they got us riled up and that was their intention. That's actually false, a heel is meant to generate heat. But when the win is clearly a fake on for Daniel Bryan to reverse on Smackdown the next day (which he will), it literally robs the audience who went to watch a PPV.

They did it with the USOS match too, nakamura was barely seen, Corbyn is not worthy of any major push even as heel, and Jinder was a boring dirty finish too. Dirty finishes are fine but clogging up on them when half will be reversed is just stupidity.
 
Yagami said:
Honestly, he does. The amount of viewers Rock and Austin brought to the product, Cena chased away and more. Reigns continuing that tradition.
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Cena now isn't Cena of ten or even five years ago. He's not all emcompassing super Cena, and most of his booking flaws have gone. What's left is just one of the best wrestlers in the world.
 
One of the worst PPVs in a while, and should have been one of the best. Good main event, have nothing against Corbin winning, but my god the rest was predictable and dreadful.

Dont know why anyone was shocked Jinder be Orton in his hometown. Means he keeps the title a bit longer which is good for the indian fanbase, and gets over as a more credible heel. Or it atleast he would of if the crowd wasnt so dog.
 
Mystry said:
Cena now isn't Cena of ten or even five years ago. He's not all emcompassing super Cena, and most of his booking flaws have gone. What's left is just one of the best wrestlers in the world.
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Fair enough if you think that but I find him very awkward to watch in the ring. The amount of ass bumps he takes and botches he has doesn't make for nice viewing. When I watch Cena, I see how fake the actual wrestling is, which isn't what I want to see. I want to believe they're actually wrestling which I just can't whenever Cena's wrestling.

On his booking, I can't comment on his past couple of years of said booking for the most part, but I believe he beat AJ Styles for the WWE title, no? That just screams same old, same old to me. And when he comes back, I'm sure he'll be right in the spotlight, constantly pandering to the crowd in his loud promos, having a kickout/finisher spamfest of a match. With his status in the WWE, you might be fine with him coming right back into the spotlight, but I just don't enjoy anything about him and his return puts me off.
 
I flicked through it earlier, what a shite ppv.

'It's Father's Day guys, look at all those legendary fathers at ringside' followed by the wrestlers using said legends moves all throughout the match.....feck off you cheesy cnuts.

Awful product, I'm glad I don't commit 6 hours a week to this shit like I used to.
 
Yagami said:
Fair enough if you think that but I find him very awkward to watch in the ring. The amount of ass bumps he takes and botches he has doesn't make for nice viewing. When I watch Cena, I see how fake the actual wrestling is, which isn't what I want to see. I want to believe they're actually wrestling which I just can't whenever Cena's wrestling.

On his booking, I can't comment on his past couple of years of said booking for the most part, but I believe he beat AJ Styles for the WWE title, no? That just screams same old, same old to me. And when he comes back, I'm sure he'll be right in the spotlight, constantly pandering to the crowd in his loud promos, having a kickout/finisher spamfest of a match. With his status in the WWE, you might be fine with him coming right back into the spotlight, but I just don't enjoy anything about him and his return puts me off.
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He lost to AJ 3 times in a row before that including their huge match at SummerSlam which was match of the year. And he is still their biggest draw, last time that he came back SDL beat Raw for the first time in ratings, of course when he comes back he will be in spotlight.
 
R.E.D. said:
He lost to AJ 3 times in a row before that including their huge match at SummerSlam which was match of the year. And he is still their biggest draw, last time that he came back SDL beat Raw for the first time in ratings, of course when he comes back he will be in spotlight.
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How many of those losses were clean? Even when he lost to Bryan and The Rock, he had excuses. Also, having a good match with AJ is like playing good football with Messi. It's hard not to.

As for being a "draw", when they're barely getting 2m views I wouldn't put it on that high of a pedestal. The only current draw is probably Lesnar, and this goes back to Cena again. WWE had plenty of opportunity to create other top starts but, whenever someone got popular, they fed them to either HHH or Cena. I mean, look at Punk. I'm not a fan, but he was clearly the guy, and in his WWE title run, Cena main evented over him everytime. When Bryan won at WM30, he got stale old Kane, and Cena got fresh Wyatt, even though he beat him at WM. Plenty of opportunities.

You'd have thought the WWE would've learnt but they're repeating the same mistakes with Reigns now. I don't get why they just don't have plenty of top guys like in the mid 90s with HBK, Bret Hart, Austin, Undertaker, so every fan has someone. And whoever gets the most popular, like Austin, you run with them. I'd say that it's probably AJ right now, but he's in a US title feud with Kevin Owens for some reason. Again, I'm not the biggest Kevin Owen's fan, but he, alongside AJ, are main eventers stuck in the midcard whilst Jinder and stale Orton are stinking up the title picture. I just don't agree with it.
 
Anyway, my 2 year or so break from wrestling has really done some good. Watching a bit of ROH now and really enjoying it. Jay Briscoe is probably my favourite in the world now Bryan's done (for now). A six man tag team championship, though?! :D

Tetsuya Naito is awesome. Such a troll. I need to watch some NJPW, too. Anyone got a good point to start from?
 
That was.... something. The main event was decent at least, if won by the wrong person. We're getting Styles-Nakamura too which is great.

Now for everything else. That women's MITB match was truly historic, like going back 10 years. What the feck were they thinking having Ellsworth literally grab the briefcase and throw it down to Carmella. There's so many other ways he could interfere and not turn the match into a complete farce, put her on his shoulders, distract the other women as she's climbing, but ffs don't let him be the one to grab the briefcase in the first women's MITB match.

I quite liked the Uso's just calling it a day and walking out, but that match should have had a clean finish after the omnishambles of the first match. Orton-Mahal was exactly like their first match without the shock element of Mahal winning, without that it was a dull match with added Ric Flair looking bemused when Mahal locked in the figure four. It was a bit shit, but hey we're still getting Styles-Nakamura, they surely can't feck that up, surely.
 
I think the ending of the Women's MITB was probably Vince amusing himself. Historic first ever Women's MITB, a video package before the match patting themselves on the back for the "Women's Revolution" and then.....a man has to climb the ladder and help the woman win.

Also, Maria is gorgeous. Hottest woman in WWE now.
 
Im just McMahon didnt suggest a handbag instead of a briefcase.

Cena btw, is a free agent. Not sure how that works storyline wise. Does that mean SD only gave him a 8 month contract? What? Also Cena coming back is great.

Mahal needed to win. Hes more interesting than Orton. Orton bores me. Mahal is at least something different.

Also glad Corbin won. They need to keep building him though. Hes had too many losses and tbh should have been SDs equivalent of Braun.
I can see somebody like Zayn being the one to finally beat Mahal (summerslam?). And as he celebrates overcoming the 3 on 1 odds, and is down, Corbin cashes in on him robbing him off his moment.
 
Sylar said:
Im just McMahon didnt suggest a handbag instead of a briefcase.

Cena btw, is a free agent. Not sure how that works storyline wise. Does that mean SD only gave him a 8 month contract? What? Also Cena coming back is great.

Mahal needed to win. Hes more interesting than Orton. Orton bores me. Mahal is at least something different.

Also glad Corbin won. They need to keep building him though. Hes had too many losses and tbh should have been SDs equivalent of Braun.
I can see somebody like Zayn being the one to finally beat Mahal (summerslam?). And as he celebrates overcoming the 3 on 1 odds, and is down, Corbin cashes in on him robbing him off his moment.
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We always disagree :lol:

I used to be an advocate of Mahal but since winning he's literally come out with the same shit. "in overcame the odds, you hate me because you envy me. I will talk to my people in my language". It's almost as boring as Bray Wyatt promos now.

As for Corbyn, he's shite. Like dogshite. He can't do anything. He's not a physical specimen to even be compared to Brawn so he can't steamroll anyone. He can't cut a proper promo, he says nothing interesting and he does nothing other than take people out when they're not guarded. The WWE title needs some serious credibility now that Jinder has it (he's been boring and uninspiring as a heel). Nakamura Owens Styles, any of them FFS. Just not Corbyn.
 
Yagami said:
How many of those losses were clean? Even when he lost to Bryan and The Rock, he had excuses. Also, having a good match with AJ is like playing good football with Messi. It's hard not to.
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AJ won the SummerSlam match clean as a whistle, and I`m not just talking about a good match, it was huge in every aspect of a feud and it helped AJ to become a top top WWE star. He won the WWE title and kept it for 5 months and they built SDL around him, as he says it`s the house that AJ Styles built.

I can`t change your mind when you hate the guy, but Cena has been brilliant in the past few years. He cuts the best promos and he is not the best wrestler but he`s having constantly great matches. At least when he comes back SD will get better because it has been sooooo boring since he left.
 
Yagami said:
Anyway, my 2 year or so break from wrestling has really done some good. Watching a bit of ROH now and really enjoying it. Jay Briscoe is probably my favourite in the world now Bryan's done (for now). A six man tag team championship, though?! :D

Tetsuya Naito is awesome. Such a troll. I need to watch some NJPW, too. Anyone got a good point to start from?
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Every clean loss has an excuse to go with it. I'm not sure why his losses to DB and Rock are any less clean.

KO is another wrestler he put over. He also dropped the belt for Wyatt by being pinned himself in the Elimination Chamber to add credibility for Bray before whispering to him "you deserve this". The idea that Cena stunts talent is just silly now. He's done it no more than the other guy in his prime to get over.
 
R.E.D. said:
AJ won the SummerSlam match clean as a whistle, and I`m not just talking about a good match, it was huge in every aspect of a feud and it helped AJ to become a top top WWE star. He won the WWE title and kept it for 5 months and they built SDL around him, as he says it`s the house that AJ Styles built.

I can`t change your mind when you hate the guy, but Cena has been brilliant in the past few years. He cuts the best promos and he is not the best wrestler but he`s having constantly great matches. At least when he comes back SD will get better because it has been sooooo boring since he left.
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I don't hate the guy, I just find him boring. Always have. Though, since I'll probably catch a Cena match here and there, I'll see for myself. I'll probably look up the AJ match, too. I'm sure it'll be AJ being his usual self, with about 10 finishers and 20 kickouts which is a typical big WWE match.
VP89 said:
Every clean loss has an excuse to go with it. I'm not sure why his losses to DB and Rock are any less clean.

KO is another wrestler he put over. He also dropped the belt for Wyatt by being pinned himself in the Elimination Chamber to add credibility for Bray before whispering to him "you deserve this". The idea that Cena stunts talent is just silly now. He's done it no more than the other guy in his prime to get over.
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Not so much "clean" but him making out he wasn't 100% against Bryan, or that he got too overconfident with The Rock, just screamed "don't worry Cena fans, he wasn't at his best so don't stop supporting him". If he lost clean, and had no excuses afterwards, I'm sure anyone that's a fan of his wouldn't suddenly stop liking him.

On Wyatt, that's 3 or so years too late. Wyatt's just another guy in the shuffle now and, with a win over Cena when he was on the up, could've been big back then. I remember his steel cage match where he beat Cena with the kid. Cena could've won about 20 times but was constantly screwed by Harper and Rowan. It was just as bad as a loss.

I thought it was a well known fact Cena stunted talent? This isn't some rumour; the likes of Edge, Jericho, Ryback etc have all confirmed this. Look at the guy who used to be with the Miz. Alex Riley was it? Cena didn't like him so his entire career was destroyed.
 
Edge? Seriously? He won his first world title a year after Cena won his and by the time he retired he had more world titles than Cena.

When it was Hogan`s era he destroyed everyone, even when he had to lose to UW which was his first big big lose he didn`t sell it the way he should have. HBK only worked with his friends and he didn`t give the belt to Bret the other huge star because he " lost" his smile. He even didn`t want to lose to Austin even though he was injured and was supposed to leave at WM night. Austin never lost a match against his biggest rival The Rock until his last match at WM19. HHH`s time was the worst era. He wouldn`t give the belt to anybody and even when he did everything became about him and they went to have horrible title runs. Jericho could have been a huge main eventer but HHH had everything.

Of course Cena has buried some wrestlers over the years but he has helped a lot of others too. Just in his US title run he did great things with KO, Sami, Cesaro, Rusev and ... . I mean of course he won because he`s the biggest star they have but he put them on the spotlight.
 
I didn't mean he "buried" Edge, @R.E.D. , I meant Edge spoke about Cena's incidents with younger talent. Mainly Nexus.

I know he's not the only top guy to refuse to put people over. Hell, I think Undertaker, Rock and Bret are the only 3 top guys in my time as a fan to be fine with doing a job. The thing is, I got it with Austin and Hogan as they, along with The Rock, are 2 of the biggest stars ever in the business that warrant said booking. With Cena and HHH, their runs drove millions away so it made no sense.
 
Ellsworth winning for Carmella was madness. Even more so if they reverse the decision.

Thought the Usos walkout was quite good. Sets up a proper feud and would allow for a no DQ/falls count anywhere/cage type scenario for the rematch that may favour the heels.

The Naomi/Lana match was quite weak but the fake cash in added a bit of drama.

Mahal (yawn) winning in the exact same fashion that he won before was ridiculous. Orton looked like he couldn't be arsed. Bizarre decision to have the title match before MitB. Good opportunity to get the title away from Mahal and Orton.

Breezango entertaining. What's the point of The Ascensions nowadays?

Called Corbin winning but Nakamura interrupting him mid-match as soon as Corbin attacked him. Sami Zayn was dominant and deserves this sort of shot, particularly as he can actually carry himself on the mic, unlike Corbin.

Not the best PPV.
 
Corbin is decent on the mic imo and will get better. Hes defo better on Talking Smack though.
 
Sylar said:
Corbin is decent on the mic imo and will get better. Hes defo better on Talking Smack though.
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Corbin on the mic is like a high school drama student having to perform their piece at the end of a lesson under duress. There's zero conviction in what he says, and he can't even remotely cover the fact that it's scripted. That's before you go onto his look, which appears to be greasy, receding, edgelord.
 
To each their own I guess. I have no issue with the way he looks either. The only issue is I wish they hadnt made him lose as much as they did since winning the Battle Royal, debuting and of course before winning MITB. @Alex99
 
Surprised to see Maria and Mike, especially both taking her name, Can she even wrestle still?
Liked the tag titles match even if I'm not a fan of the New Day.
Carmella winning the cash in I can't see leading to much apart from a few teasing with every match. She's not championship material.
 
Alex99 said:
Corbin on the mic is like a high school drama student having to perform their piece at the end of a lesson under duress. There's zero conviction in what he says, and he can't even remotely cover the fact that it's scripted. That's before you go onto his look, which appears to be greasy, receding, edgelord.
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Agree. I find Corbin on the mic awful with his hand waving to try and prove a point.

Wonder what Rusev must be feeling. He should have been given a run as champion long before his injury or even the money in the bank.
 
Finally saw the event and thought it was not awful. My thoughts:

Womens MITB: This was quite disappointing. For the first ever women's MITB match, it was missing a lot. The womens brawl on SD a few weeks ago was better than this. It seemed to end before it got going. There wasn't much memorable in the match and the ending was a joke.

The Usos vs. New Day: I had a feeling the match would end with a New Day DQ win, to keep this feud going but I wish the Usos did something a little smarter instead of just walking out. Regardless, the match was pretty good.

Naomi vs. Lana: Lana was much better than I thought she would be. Having said that, she was still a few gears below Naomi and that made the match a bit awkward. The ending had some intrigue due to Carmella but also ended quite flat.

Kinder Mahal vs. Randy Orton: I didn't hate this. There was some intensity from Mahal and Randy wasn't as laborious as usual. There was decent narrative with Randy's dad being there but the ending shouldnt have been the same as the last time they faced each other. Glad Hinder won.

Breezango vs. Ascension: Toilet break match. Not sure why they don't give Ascension a chance. They have a great look and entrance then just act as jobbers... baffling.

Mens MITB: I really enjoyed this. There was chaos, amazing stunts and some great, memorable spots. AJ vs. Nakamura tease was excellent and Zayn and Owens were great in the match. Corbin looked very dominant and I guess this made sense to make him win as they need to give him some momentum after his recent losses to Zayn. I enjoyed it.
 
MITB was awful aside from the main event which was brilliant.

Far too many PPV's these days.
 
Alex99 said:
Corbin on the mic is like a high school drama student having to perform their piece at the end of a lesson under duress. There's zero conviction in what he says, and he can't even remotely cover the fact that it's scripted. That's before you go onto his look, which appears to be greasy, receding, edgelord.
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His look is terrible. Id take him a lot more seriously if he wore wrist tape and actually had some proper facial hair instead of that stupid neck beard thing he has going on.
 
So the Enzo attacker was revealed. To the surprise of literally nobody it was Cass.

To be fair though, Enzo's acting in the segment was excellent. Cass was ranting at him, and they had a close-up on him as a tear rolled down his face.
 
Minkaro said:
So the Enzo attacker was revealed. To the surprise of literally nobody it was Cass.

To be fair though, Enzo's acting in the segment was excellent. Cass was ranting at him, and they had a close-up on him as a tear rolled down his face.
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Agreed. Was a decent raw.
 
Yagami said:
How many of those losses were clean? Even when he lost to Bryan and The Rock, he had excuses. Also, having a good match with AJ is like playing good football with Messi. It's hard not to.

As for being a "draw", when they're barely getting 2m views I wouldn't put it on that high of a pedestal. The only current draw is probably Lesnar, and this goes back to Cena again. WWE had plenty of opportunity to create other top starts but, whenever someone got popular, they fed them to either HHH or Cena. I mean, look at Punk. I'm not a fan, but he was clearly the guy, and in his WWE title run, Cena main evented over him everytime. When Bryan won at WM30, he got stale old Kane, and Cena got fresh Wyatt, even though he beat him at WM. Plenty of opportunities.

You'd have thought the WWE would've learnt but they're repeating the same mistakes with Reigns now. I don't get why they just don't have plenty of top guys like in the mid 90s with HBK, Bret Hart, Austin, Undertaker, so every fan has someone. And whoever gets the most popular, like Austin, you run with them. I'd say that it's probably AJ right now, but he's in a US title feud with Kevin Owens for some reason. Again, I'm not the biggest Kevin Owen's fan, but he, alongside AJ, are main eventers stuck in the midcard whilst Jinder and stale Orton are stinking up the title picture. I just don't agree with it.
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Rather than caring about what young adults or smarks are thinking, Vince has always been a person who looks at the financial and more practical side of things, whoever draws more money in terms of popularity and merchandise gets the nod. In fact, this was what kept him in the business for more than 40 years.

In fact, if you are old enough to remember, Hulk Hogan was the John Cena of 80s. He dominated the scene for much of the 80s and even when Hulk Hogan was out of the title picture, Hogan insisted on being back in the main event picture on two occasions (1) when Randy Savage was the champion and he formed the MegaPowers, and 2) Bret Hart lost to Yokozuna and Hogan came back to win the championship straightaway), Vince allowed it to happen. Though it is said that Hogan had creative control, Vince always knew Hogan was a big draw and Hogan would help him to earn money. In fact, Vince has always been shoving superstars down fans' throats and he has been successful most of the time. Even Lex Lurger was moderately successful and if he wasn't such a dick backstage, Vince would have put the championship on him. Vince has been doing for 10 years with John Cena and he has been very successful with all the kids buying his merchandise. So, it doesn't matter to him whether young adults boo him in the arena or not. John Cena is the most popular in China and among American kids. Roman Reigns is the most popular in India. As long as these two bring him the money, it doesn't matter him if young adults cheer Finn Balor or Sami Zayn in the arena. Though AJ styles and CM Punk are seemingly the most popular in the arenas, to Vince McMahon, the merchandise sales and media coverage of John Cena and Roman Reigns tell Vince who are the most popular and who to "run with them".

And WWE long ago stopped caring about TV ratings. They feel that the TV age is over and everyone knows that the astronomically high ratings during the attitude and ruthless aggression eras were an anomaly. Wrestling has always been behind NBA, NFL and Baseball in the US. Though they are concerned, I don't see them being too motivated to push ratings back to 3.0 and above.

EDIT (23 minutes later): I don't mean that Vince never listens to the fans. He did when he put the title on Punk and Bryan. But just that Vince does not see them as Hulk Hogan/John Cena level of mega-superstar, maybe just on the level of Bret Hart and HBK. Vince is more interested in getting a mega-superstar successor and from the sales so far, this person is likely to be Roman Reigns.
 
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a_devil_inside said:
I never realized Lex Luger never won any major title in WWF, thought he would have held one at least once. Not even an Intercontinental.
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Oh wow. Didn't realize that either. I just remember him coming into the ring with a bunch of women holding mirrors. And that he had a metal forearm.

I was really young so didn't realize people hated him like they do Roman now? It's it for the same reasons?
 
FahadiHossein said:
Rather than caring about what young adults or smarks are thinking, Vince has always been a person who looks at the financial and more practical side of things, whoever draws more money in terms of popularity and merchandise gets the nod. In fact, this was what kept him in the business for more than 40 years.
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I think everyone agrees with going for the guy who brings the most money in. It's the fact Vince doesn't give anyone a chance to do said thing is what's irritating. CM Punk was the most over guy on the roster, was outselling Cena's merch, had a babyface DVD coming out, and what do they do? Turn him heel. Bizarre. Not to mention the fact that he didn't once main event during his WWE title run over John Cena. Cena even main evented over him and Bryan when he faced Laurinaitis! I mean, Punk should've been the one to give Laurinaitis his comeuppance anyway as he was the reason this all started, but was jobbing to the retired HHH who, after beating Punk, went right back into retirement. Crazy booking.

Bryan was the most over guy on the roster and did you see the merch they were giving him? A black shirt with a unicorn on it. He not only had nothing to do with unicorns in the first place, the shirt was bloody hideous. It was never going to sell.

If you don't give them the chance then no one is going to get to that level.

FahadiHossein said:
In fact, if you are old enough to remember, Hulk Hogan was the John Cena of 80s. He dominated the scene for much of the 80s and even when Hulk Hogan was out of the title picture, Hogan insisted on being back in the main event picture on two occasions (1) when Randy Savage was the champion and he formed the MegaPowers, and 2) Bret Hart lost to Yokozuna and Hogan came back to win the championship straightaway), Vince allowed it to happen. Though it is said that Hogan had creative control, Vince always knew Hogan was a big draw and Hogan would help him to earn money. In fact, Vince has always been shoving superstars down fans' throats and he has been successful most of the time. Even Lex Lurger was moderately successful and if he wasn't such a dick backstage, Vince would have put the championship on him. Vince has been doing for 10 years with John Cena and he has been very successful with all the kids buying his merchandise. So, it doesn't matter to him whether young adults boo him in the arena or not. John Cena is the most popular in China and among American kids. Roman Reigns is the most popular in India. As long as these two bring him the money, it doesn't matter him if young adults cheer Finn Balor or Sami Zayn in the arena. Though AJ styles and CM Punk are seemingly the most popular in the arenas, to Vince McMahon, the merchandise sales and media coverage of John Cena and Roman Reigns tell Vince who are the most popular and who to "run with them".
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The difference between Hogan and Reigns/Cena is that Hogan literally took not only them, but wrestling as a whole to a new level. He also plied his trade outside the WWF in his early career and earnt his spot at the top unlike Reigns (not Cena) who was handed it. I preferred Hart/Savage over Hogan, but I can't complain about him overshadowing them because he was absolutely huge.

Feel free to correct me here as I'm not 100% sure on these details, but Luger was a bit like Cena/Reigns. Was pushed as the top guy despite not being completely over with the crowd and was losing WWF viewers. Thankfully, at the time, WWF had WCW breathing down their necks so they had to do the sensible thing and push someone else.
FahadiHossein said:
And WWE long ago stopped caring about TV ratings. They feel that the TV age is over and everyone knows that the astronomically high ratings during the attitude and ruthless aggression eras were an anomaly. Wrestling has always been behind NBA, NFL and Baseball in the US. Though they are concerned, I don't see them being too motivated to push ratings back to 3.0 and above.
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I agree with you in that I don't see them being too motivated to push the ratings back up, but I do think they still care about the ratings. Their TV show is their main outlet for their product after all.
FahadiHossein said:
EDIT (23 minutes later): I don't mean that Vince never listens to the fans. He did when he put the title on Punk and Bryan. But just that Vince does not see them as Hulk Hogan/John Cena level of mega-superstar, maybe just on the level of Bret Hart and HBK. Vince is more interested in getting a mega-superstar successor and from the sales so far, this person is likely to be Roman Reigns.
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I agree but this is where Vince being stuck in the past/stubborn is a huge problem. Punk and Bryan were never given the chances Reigns and Cena got. If you give them the chance to be the face and they fail then fine, but they never did. HBK & Bret both got their chances and, whilst they were popular, never had the same effect Hogan/Austin/Rock did, so I can't complain about them.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
Oh wow. Didn't realize that either. I just remember him coming into the ring with a bunch of women holding mirrors. And that he had a metal forearm.

I was really young so didn't realize people hated him like they do Roman now? It's it for the same reasons?
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All I remember was his arrogance and always rooted for the faces back then. But some heels I took to but just never liked him, nor in his WCW days either.
 
Watching Joe's segments now. God, this is horrendous. Reigns is very, very bad on the mic, and they made Joe, who's about to go up against Brock, look weak again.
 
a_devil_inside said:
All I remember was his arrogance and always rooted for the faces back then. But some heels I took to but just never liked him, nor in his WCW days either.
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I liked him in WCW esp when he defeated Hogan for the WCW title. He just came off as a big deal for WCW whilst in WWF I saw him as a wannabe.
 
Yagami said:
I think everyone agrees with going for the guy who brings the most money in. It's the fact Vince doesn't give anyone a chance to do said thing is what's irritating. CM Punk was the most over guy on the roster, was outselling Cena's merch, had a babyface DVD coming out, and what do they do? Turn him heel. Bizarre. Not to mention the fact that he didn't once main event during his WWE title run over John Cena. Cena even main evented over him and Bryan when he faced Laurinaitis! I mean, Punk should've been the one to give Laurinaitis his comeuppance anyway as he was the reason this all started, but was jobbing to the retired HHH who, after beating Punk, went right back into retirement. Crazy booking.
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I am not sure if I can agree to the point if CM Punk was outselling Cena's merchandise. Maybe he outsold Cena for a period, but Cena has always outsold almost everyone throughout a prolonged period of time. In fact, there was a rumor that WWE was trying to sabotage Punk's merchandise by overstocking Cena's merchandise. WWE has never released specific details on which superstar sold the most merchandise, though we know roughly that it has always been Cena and now it is Reigns, but the WWE, being a profit-driven company, would never try to sabotage Punk's merchandise and I believe that the overstocking of Cena's merchandise is due to the much larger demand in Cena's merchandise by the kids. A recent dirtsheet in March said that Roman Reigns is now outselling Cena, and if he can outsell Cena for another year or two, Vince has made another correction decision.

In fact, I understand that his one year title reign was unfairly taken away from him and given to The Rock and he could have main evented some PPVs, but if Vince has never given him a chance, Vince won't have given him a one year title reign. The heel turn also gave him a new purpose, as he was back in the main event scene fighting Cena and Ryback. Though many smark fans think that CM Punk (or Bryan or Styles) is the biggest star, the general audience among non-smark American and global fans still say that Cena is the biggest star, so it is natural for the WWE to follow the wish of the general audience. Because Punk never outshone Cena in merchandise sales, it was an easier decision to turn Punk heel than to turn Cena heel. We have been waiting for 10+ years and Cena has yet to turn heel, and this shows how solidified his top position is in terms of merchandise sales.

Even two of the biggest legends in the industry, Undertaker and Randy Orton (in recent months), wrestled in the mid-card despite being in world championship matches. This shows that being a wrestler, even if you bust your ass, sometimes you have to be selfless, take a step back and let someone outshine you for the sake of the company, unlike football where you can be the main playmaker or striker for several seasons unchallenged if your form does not drop. Very different for wrestling.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
Oh wow. Didn't realize that either. I just remember him coming into the ring with a bunch of women holding mirrors. And that he had a metal forearm.

I was really young so didn't realize people hated him like they do Roman now? It's it for the same reasons?
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No, he wasn't hated by the general audience though. He was never as popular as Hogan but he was popular and was gaining momentum. What stopped him was the heat and backstage politics and these led to terrible booking decisions and his downfall.

He went around America to gather support on the Lex Express and body tossed (he didn't bodyslam Yokozuna and he cheated by hitting Yokozuna) on the aircraft carrier. He was gaining the support and momentum and wrestlers backstage revolted when they knew that Vince was giving him the world championship, so they changed the finish to a countout win. Yokozuna retained the championship and Lurger celebrated as if he had won the championship. Retrospectively, we will never know if he will be as successful as Hogan since his push was curtailed by the backstage heat and politics.

But as a kid, I supported his bid to challenge Yokozuna and bring the championship back to AMERICA.
 
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