All Ambrose is short of is starting a tag team with someone incredibly random like Goldust, and he'll have the full house of midcard feckery.
Television Tho Prop Grops Throps
- Thread starter Big-Red
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So a serious question, how much do you think this part timers and old timers at the top of the bill can last and how much of a negative effect will it have going forward? I'm not talking about Lesnar or Cena they can both go and make sense. I'm referring moreso to Taker, Rock, Triple H even Kane and Big Show.
Surely the roles these guys - who's prime was 10/15 years ago - are playing could be filled by up and comers. The big names may still draw and attract casual fans but the guys coming through are getting no exposure whatsoever. Rollins is champion sure but when they've said the title match won't be the main event of their 2nd biggest PPV, 5 weeks before the event, it doesn't say much.
I fear that when these big draws are gone, the casual fan who comes back to see the stars of yesteryear wont have a clue who Dean Ambrose, Kevin Owens or Finn Balor are or why they're meant to care. I think that's when Vince will really start to worry about his numbers.
Surely the roles these guys - who's prime was 10/15 years ago - are playing could be filled by up and comers. The big names may still draw and attract casual fans but the guys coming through are getting no exposure whatsoever. Rollins is champion sure but when they've said the title match won't be the main event of their 2nd biggest PPV, 5 weeks before the event, it doesn't say much.
I fear that when these big draws are gone, the casual fan who comes back to see the stars of yesteryear wont have a clue who Dean Ambrose, Kevin Owens or Finn Balor are or why they're meant to care. I think that's when Vince will really start to worry about his numbers.
Some of the booking may have been shit in regards to him but I love Rollins as champion. Still hoping he holds onto the title until Wrestlemania. Thought he cut another great promo last night as well.
Nice to see two women's matches on the show. Really good little tag match, Lynch did an awesome job getting the crowd riled up in anticipation for the comeback and hot tag.
Nice to see two women's matches on the show. Really good little tag match, Lynch did an awesome job getting the crowd riled up in anticipation for the comeback and hot tag.
I'd point out that we're already seeing serious problems come from it, the fact these older guys are almost invariably brought in to go over the young talent is making them seem like utter dweebs to the casual viewer. Look at Undertaker vs Bray Wyatt, is there one single reason that Undertaker should be going over there? It would have been better for everyone involved to just not have the match, even if you don't have Wyatt go over. Undertaker winning was the 3rd best option there.
As for the second point, absolutely spot on, when they were really pushing the Authority angle with Kane and Big Show as the muscle, why on earth is that not a role that can be filled by a Cesaro and a Harper (just throwing names out there), it would help EVERYONE involved in that storyline, you'd have them putting on much better matches with (at the time Roman and Orton) that would have helped both get over much better than they did.
Vince tries to hard to appease the "Attitude Era ruled, modern guys suck!" fans and at the end of the day, they're the worst people to cater to, as 99.9% of them aren't watching the product.
The Show and Kane thing is baffling. Catching up with raw just after posting what I did, I thought "why not have the ascension come in as Triple H's muscle for the authority instead of Kane and Big Show?" Instead they got introduced as some LOD rip off - admittedly as they were in nxt, but it didn't transfer well - and they were a laughing stock within weeks.
On a separate note the Undertaker Lesnar brawl was excellent. Maybe went on a little too long but got me thinking about how to take the monday after summerslam off.
On Rollins, I actually think he has been booked well, he belongs, his defences and even as far back as the triple threat at the rumble, he showed as much. My only issue is that he needs to be centre stage - video games (Austin got it), magazines, tv appearances etc. - to give him the same relevance and recognisability.
Instead of a LOD ripoff, they could have been a fun APA ripoff, pair of hard bastards that when their music hits, you know some shit's about to happen.
Well the problem with the Ascension is that no matter what they've been given, they've not got over. Whether that's the deadly serious killers in NXT, the more comedic act, it's never worked. Konnor has been in the company so long it was time to shit or get off the pot, and well we've got what happened, which is much better than I actually thought they'd be.
I must say, the brawl really was excellent, which I entirely as being down to Brock, my eyes were on him the entire time because he's Brock Lesnar, you get me, the guy is so fecking great. The beast realising that the best way of getting out of this corner was leaving the ring and running round was a genius touch, whether that was agented or just Brock it was absolutely excellent.
Seth really should have been booked much stronger, especially coming off the back of Lesnar's reign. His only "clean" win in theory is that awful ladder match which even then had a dodgy ending, and against a guy who couldn't beat Wade Barrett not long before. As far as the games, magazines etc... absolutely. I can see why they might have gone Roman (I probably would have with the majority) with him being a babyface, fecking huge, good looking etc... but they really need the new guys to start getting such a chance to entice a new audience.
Well it seems this conversation has been running for at least 5 years or more now, but you'd imagine it can't last much longer. The guy you mention (Taker, Rock etc) are all on their last runs most definitely!! Even Cole hinted at it about Taker and it being his 25th anniversary at WWE. The Rock might have 1 more big one last in him but even that is questionable.
I posted here the other day asking does anyone think that WWE could go out of business? I know it sounds crazy but WCW were financially stable once upon a time and had huge profits, it all changed very quickly in a 2 year span. Plenty of rumours going around about WWE poor financial records in recent years, heard stuff about fireworks being left off shows because they couldn't afford it, catering has been cut at a lot of the shows and of course TV ratings going down and attendance figures too. Battleground PPV had somewhere between 2-5k empty seats up to the day of the event, no idea if they sold them or not though.
Anyway, as for the bold part:
The way Cena spoke about Rollins as champ was disgraceful last night I felt. Completely buried the guy and his reign to date, saying he's been a flop. Rollins is one of their most talented workers and they've made him the whiney, chicken shit heel...I've said it from day one they should very much have him as the in your face, arrogant and brash type heel...aka, Shawn Michaels!!
Rollins current reign reminds me exactly of CM Punks long reign as champ, yeah its great they kept the strap on him for so long but he was made look weak continually. Really, really piss poor booking.
Extreme Rules - Dodgy win where the RKO was banned yet Rollins won using it? Also, waaaay too much outside interference. Awful
Payback - same again, waaaay to much outside interference from J&J and Kane. Decent match, the shield moment was great.
Elimination Chamber - he lost via DQ, Absolute crap! The Dusty finish! Really lame!
MITB - Good match, but because of a timing error they had to completely over bake it and ran a good 5-10 mins too long. Weird finish to it too with them both holding the belt.
Basically I can't recall in any of these matches where Rollins has looked like a world class wrestler and one deserving of holding the WWE Title.
And it's not hard to book him like edge, edge was a cowardly heel but when he had no options but to fight he had great matches where he looked strong. Rollins lost to J & J security ffs.
I think they should be aiming for Triple H 2000. He was a bit of a sneak here and there (Iron Man Match, Couple of times on Raw) but he would go and be ruthless when he needed to (Rumble, No Way Out)
Michaels was the same too, he had interference in his matches and cheated and was sly etc but he also was able to put on incredible matches too and you took him legitimately as WWE Champ.
So far Rollins looks like he got there purely on luck and its built that way since day one. It's fine to show him having some kind of fear for Lesnar but at the same time let him have his moments too in the feud and even the match. The match sunday was 110% Lesnar and it shouldn't of been.
Sad really.
So far Rollins looks like he got there purely on luck and its built that way since day one. It's fine to show him having some kind of fear for Lesnar but at the same time let him have his moments too in the feud and even the match. The match sunday was 110% Lesnar and it shouldn't of been.
Sad really.
Giving him a dark version of shield could be a good idea, the authority currently is full of jokes. Hard to believe that the owner of wwe can't get anyone on his side other than Kane, J & J and show.
So, yeah... I just saw this on Facebook 
And you still have people saying Cena doesn't bury guys, that Owens / Rusev / Wyatt / Zayn should all be lucky to have ring time with him?
And you still have people saying Cena doesn't bury guys, that Owens / Rusev / Wyatt / Zayn should all be lucky to have ring time with him?
Rollins, taking chickenshit heel to new levels....
So, yeah... I just saw this on Facebook
And you still have people saying Cena doesn't bury guys, that Owens / Rusev / Wyatt / Zayn should all be lucky to have ring time with him?
You can't blame him for zayn, neville was never going to make it to the top in the wwe and it remains to be seen what Owens does next. Completely agree with you that he stopped the push of wyatt, rusev, Sandrow and even Barrett.
So, yeah... I just saw this on Facebook
And you still have people saying Cena doesn't bury guys, that Owens / Rusev / Wyatt / Zayn should all be lucky to have ring time with him?
Zayn fecked himself up and Neville, well I have no idea what the duck he has to do with that. Hell I have no idea what the feck that picture is going on about.
Is it just crossing off anyone that Cena has beaten at any point? Is that it?
Neville was never going to be a top guy anyway.
It was worse than Cena's Lesnar beatdown, ffs.
Literally stood there taking suplexes and shit until the Undertaker deigned to show up.
Two wins in a row, taps him out and laughs him off.
Combine that with Cena confronting Rolllins, I'll be shocked if Owens is anywhere near the US title at Summerslam.
I dont get that picture with the lines. Mainly cos didnt Neville have Cena beat and won by DQ? Has Cena even beaten Neville?
WWE wont go out out business unless its something drastic. It wont be because of bad creative though. It will be some sort of venture that takes up a lot of money, but saying that, its a global company now and even if they hit hard times in US, they can just travel and will make shit loads of money in countries which dont get to see them even if everybody is basically a midcarder.
WWE wont go out out business unless its something drastic. It wont be because of bad creative though. It will be some sort of venture that takes up a lot of money, but saying that, its a global company now and even if they hit hard times in US, they can just travel and will make shit loads of money in countries which dont get to see them even if everybody is basically a midcarder.
I know some of them are probably justifiable, Neville the obvious one. Zayn was unlucky too sure. Ah I just think its funny, his ego knows no bounds. He's beyond Hogan at this point for refusing to put guys over at his stage.
Basically it is yeah and the list seems to be endless! Heck did Austin, Hogan, Trips (guys who get tarred with burying other stars) have as many burials as Cena?
Agree about Neville, good in ring but where he is now is as far as he'll ever get probably.
Yeah, I'm a huge Lesnar fan but even I thought it was a complete joke. No thought went into it at all, I mean they literally must of met for 5 seconds and planned the match out.
Lesnar: "Hey Seth, I'm gonna suplex you a lot ok"
Rollins: "Yeah of course, hey how about you suplex me 13 times, you know cause 13 is an unlucky number and JBL can say it too for people who don't get it, what you think?"
Lesnar: "Yeah, whatever. As long as I get to suplex you I don't give a crap"
This is my problem with nobody truly going over on Cena. Yes he'll put on good matches against mid carders recently, give them an audience, yes maybe someone will get a clean win against him (he's never been lost clean on raw since 2009 btw) but nobody goes over as better than or equal to him... Well apart from Brock, even then that's occasionally.
Now what's left is that they have Cena , and then everybody else on the current roster is no where near him, because nobody is elevated to his level or beyond. They've got in a situation where older fans are bored of Cena because at the end of the day.. we know what's going to happen, and they've got younger fans who are not interested in anyone else unless Cena is on top. You look around now, and you think who could they really put the HWC on. You talk about Wyatt and his booking against Undertaker, but if he goes over against Cena, he does not need to go against Taker because he's already towards that level.
Fair enough it's not always his fault, WWE needs a risk and book people against him better, but he also has a habit of burying people in his promos and matches. The no selling constantly, the multiple kick outs of finishers even on Raw (yes i know people kick out the AA). He does not really give the bookers a choice sometimes... Hell look at the promo last night, basically buries Rollings, even buries the WWE HWC and basically puts over himself and the US title as more prestigious cause he's holding it.
Also anyone else getting slightly bored of Brock. Few stiff shots, suplexes, F5s rinse and repeat. Get some power bombs in, get him going to the top rope again...
Tbf, he is what the Authority is all about, "Best for Business". Cena is the face of the company and that is worth far more than whatever belt he may or may not hold. Champions (Belt holders) come and go (hell, the Miz was there) but the face of the company rarely changes unless the next one is ready. Bruno, Hogan, Austin, Taker, Rock, HHH, Lesnar, Orton, Cena, Bryan...it's a rarefied air and none one currently are capable of stepping up to Cena there....and so no one gets over Cena in the ring too. Simple as.
I expect Reigns to be the next one and till he's ready, it'll continue to be Cena or Lesnar.
Also, lol @ Rusev going from only being pinned once in his career, winning a good match last week on Raw, getting a shot at the US title and looking like he had a chance to win against all odds. Fast forward a week, hes been pinned twice more, left off a PPV, and had his partners abandon him
Hes a few months away from discovering his long lost love of dance
Also for all those saying they want to see Cena as a heel, his character has been a heel for a few years now especially his promos and his run. Its like a reverse NWA Ric Flair lol
Hes a few months away from discovering his long lost love of dance
Also for all those saying they want to see Cena as a heel, his character has been a heel for a few years now especially his promos and his run. Its like a reverse NWA Ric Flair lol
So, yeah... I just saw this on Facebook
And you still have people saying Cena doesn't bury guys, that Owens / Rusev / Wyatt / Zayn should all be lucky to have ring time with him?
It's only Owens who he's harmed so far. Zayn came out looking a million dollars, and his whole character is "more likable underdog than Bryan" so he should never have come in going over Cena, and Neville was drawing with him before there was interference from what I can remember.
Edit: and @phelans shorts I'm assuming that means Dolph is off?
Double post, but the vid in this link is truly heart warming.
http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2015/7/21/9011919/my-wish-with-john-cena-on-espn-video
http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2015/7/21/9011919/my-wish-with-john-cena-on-espn-video
It's very possible, but Briley has the same terrible sense of humour as his brother so it could be him taking the piss.
So that's Dolph gone. What a waste.
I think going over on Cena would give people a step up though. They have plenty of people who are great promo's and great wrestlers. Wyatt was the best thing on TV for a whilst, you see KO merch everywhere in the crowd, Rusev was getting monster heat.. 3 great wrestlers, all of them great promo's (well Rusev with Lana).. yes the story isn't over for KO but still.
If Cena puts over at least some of guys he's gone against over the years. WWE would be in a much better state than it is now. Unfortunately WWE have built themselves up as having one top guy, and nobody else really near.
They are lucky they have no real competition, one of the reasons WcW went downhill was because of Hogan and his refusing to put guys over. You think Austin, Rock, Mankind etc would of been as big as they became if Hogan was still floating around WWE?
Feck no, the man is gold.
I've never seen the word "delight" misspelled so badly.
I'll be honest I used to like John Cena and respected the effort in put into the company and the business but since he won the US title his ego has become more noticeable, there are so many guys in the company right now that are not being used because the top brass continue to have one top guy and it remains to be Cena.
The attitude era had HBK, HHH. Undertaker, Austin, Rock, Foley, to name a few, that where all at their peak and great for ratings I don't understand why they don't just focus on building a bunch of guys up to the top tier again
The attitude era had HBK, HHH. Undertaker, Austin, Rock, Foley, to name a few, that where all at their peak and great for ratings I don't understand why they don't just focus on building a bunch of guys up to the top tier again
Firstly, Hogan was in WCW during the beginning of the Attitude era. When he left there was a big gap for the face, filled by Lex Luger and such...till Attitude era. And that era was unique because there were just so many stars right up there. Austin, HHH, Rock were all up there and not much separated them at the top.
Secondly, assuming KO or Rusev did put one over Cena, what would they be doing? I certainly don't think they are ready for HW title mix yet. The Cesaro/Owens/Rusev is balanced as it is and unless WWE screws up (again) it would be fun to watch feud.
Yeah, he's been a waste of a spot for fecking ages now.
I think the point he is making is all the guys in the Attitude era put each other over, hence they had a large pool of credible talent. Whereas today, Cena rules! Everyone else will be buried or shoved back to midcard with nothing relevant to keep them going.
The attitude era was unique because everyone worked to help put each other over for the betterment of the business! This does not happen today.
What was even better about the AE was you had that same mentality throughout the company, guys in the lower tier would really put each other over, mid card the same, Title scene...it didn't matter.
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TBH, it comes of as guys who couldnt beat Cena going at it against each other to see whos the best of those that lost to Cena :P
I still think they should have Cena come in two matches at Summerslam. Defend the US title, win it (beat Owens again cos why not buhahaha) and then beat Rollins as well after his first grueling match and become a double champ and tie Ric Flair. Will cement his status as the best heel that isnt a heel despite sometimes acting like one and being treated by one by the fans, for the past five years.
There were people who could have replaced Cena before, Punk was there, Bryan came close and recently Reigns attempted it. Punk never got along, shame with Bryan on his injuries and Reigns was just not ready.
Assume Cena is the Austin or Rock of current time. Would Austin or Rock lose clean and put one over for Rusev? I don't think so.
I think once Cena goes, we'll have the balance again as we again have a pool of top players (Reigns, Rollins, Ambrose, Wyatt) to take and pull each other up. The STF tapout was pathetic, but I think KO will win the title off Cena in SS. May not be clean, but I want to see what KO does with the title.
Well Rock and Austin did lose to Jericho and Angle which helped elevate them. Also to Mankind, and not just in one match (normally the first match, but throughout the feud).
Not sure who Rusev/Bray/Owens equivalent would be, but Rock did lose "key" matches.
Austin and Hogan I see as one-offs. Hogan was at a time when they were becoming global and the build of monsters to be beaten by the American hero worked during the 80s.
Austin was leading an era where they were competing with WCW and it was a "keep on going with it" momentum they built which also helped other stars.
Right now, I dont think they have any excuses to not make other stars. They have pretty much a monopoly on the business.
With Cena in the World title match, it wouldnt surprise me if the Raw before Summerslam, Cena loses the "open challenge" to Owens because of Seth Rollins.
Not sure who Rusev/Bray/Owens equivalent would be, but Rock did lose "key" matches.
Austin and Hogan I see as one-offs. Hogan was at a time when they were becoming global and the build of monsters to be beaten by the American hero worked during the 80s.
Austin was leading an era where they were competing with WCW and it was a "keep on going with it" momentum they built which also helped other stars.
Right now, I dont think they have any excuses to not make other stars. They have pretty much a monopoly on the business.
With Cena in the World title match, it wouldnt surprise me if the Raw before Summerslam, Cena loses the "open challenge" to Owens because of Seth Rollins.
As Sylar said, Austin and Rock are two of the most giving stars in the history of the WWE. They understood you had to lose to put other guys over. They lost clean to plenty of guys and they went on to be legit stars.
The booking now just sucks, they don't want to take a risk on anyone anymore. I said it on the previous page as well, even Rollins who they gave the strap too has been booked so badly. He's been made look like a completely undeserving, lucky and chicken shit heel champ.