I wish undertaker had at least combed his hair before coming out. And Owens kicks out of the SUPER AA but he taps out to the STF? Whaaat ? Why ?
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Rollins has looked like an idiot since Wrestlemania. He's essentially been the Honky Tonk Man.
Undertaker is without doubt the heel in this. He interfered when the babyface was about to win the title and low blowed him. He's Kane's big brother who's come to help him take on the bully who hurt him. feck me this Creative is so dumb.
Undertaker being the man to stop the unstoppable Brock. Fantastic.
It's more frustrating in how Owens has been booked. There is similar between Owens and Rusev.
Owens came up, undefeated in NXT and would dismantle guys, same thing Rusev was doing pre Cena. Both Rusev and Owens won there first match against Cena, and then lost every match after. Owens and Rusev have both 'tapped' to Cena now, which isn't to bad if WWE has not made tapping seem weak over the last few years.
Your right about Summerslam, and hopefully he does win.. Well he needs to, but still frustrating to see them wreck his potential as a dominate monster heel, just like Rusev has been.
Not saying he should stay off for ages, but i think to really put Owens over as a heel, he needs to dismantle Cena, Sami Zayn style, and have Cena actually sell it. Not come back a week later or the next night as he usually does.
I agree about the open challenge, but Owens has to win it at SS and the feud needs to end at SS. If Owens does not win, where does he go? and if he does win and Cena is not written off, it'll just be a continuation of the feud the next night, and it'll just get stale.
There was hope... I'm hoping he'll win at SS, but it'll probably be a four way and Cena won't take the pin, which is a shame. I don't think he'll main event right away, but WWE certainly needs a dominate heel. Brock is babyface now, Seth is just made to look cowardly/weak and Rusev and Bray have been wrecked imho.
To be fair, i hope this is Taker's last run and it probably is and if so you can't think of any others for him to go out against. Maybe one last Kane vs Taker as they both go off into the sunset, but that's about it.
Hey... Maybe the Undertaker will lose again at Summerslam
NJPW was awesome though. Night and day with Battleground sadly.
Hey... Maybe the Undertaker will lose again at Summerslam
NJPW was awesome though. Night and day with Battleground sadly.
I haven't watched it yet, I forgot to set an alarm when Battleground finished. Any point in the tag matches or should I just skip to the intermission for the tournament matches?
There only way Undertaker isn't doing Wrestlemania in Dallas is if he's injured. For that to mean something he has to be going in off of a win, which means he either beats Brock or he has to be doing another show between Summerslam and Wrestlemania. Survivor Series being his anniversary is a possibility, but who does he beat?
It's a solid show, tag matches are okay but it gets really good during the last two matches. Great main event and penultimate match. If pressed for time I think you can safely skip the opening tag matches,
Sting needs to get involved somehow as well. There is such little need for Undertaker-Lesnar rematch. It makes me so frustrated.
Also, now Cena has cleanly pinned and submitted both Rusev and Ownes.
Fantastic
Fantastic
Well when i said last run, i meant from now till Wrestlemania. Wrestlemania in Dallas being his goodbye.
I said in earlier post i think he'll do SummerSlam, Survivor Series then Wrestlemania. They also need to write Brock off somehow till Royal Rumble/Wrestlemania.
Maybe Sting at Survivor Series? Sting debuted on WWE on it last year, Undertaker anniversary, and everyone gets the match that's 10 years to late. Doing it at Survivor Series, gives some older fans what they want, whilst keeping it away from Wrestlemania.
Dominant monster heel doesn't mean immediately beat the number one star of the business. KO looks hella strong still in all of his matches, losing a match doesn't mean that his push is halted. KO and Cena are trading wins right now which is GREAT. From a Kayfabe standpoint essentially, a newbie has come up from the ranks and is now going toe to toe with the best in the business. That's good. That's how it should be. Not coming up and instantly being the best ever. You may as well immediately retire, because you've got nowhere left to go. Stars should be built over time, not instantly cemented. Cena was already pinned clean by Owens at EC.
And Cena has also been cleanly pinned by Owens. So yeah, fantastic. Not sure what all these problems are with people being cleanly pinned by other people. It should happen 90% of the time. It's the same bullshit that goes on in boxing where someone loses one match and apparently should retire because they're shite and should never fight again. Sometimes people win and sometimes people lose.
The problem is trading wins. In WWE land it's incredibly common and incredibly damaging, your main event era should beat those below them and so on. Let's look at Wade Barrett for instance, he's been in this shitty feud where he's actually lost clean to R Truth on a number of occasions. That just outright shouldn't be happening, he's trading wins with a job guy and even though he got the win in the rubber match, he still looks like a complete dweeb. It's the reason they're not making any stars, because they're programming the idea that everyone behind Brock Lesnar and now the Undertaker (
) are much of a muchness. There's a reason that a card should have a structure, only a certain number of guys and gals can be stars, who those people are is dependent on a number of factors, but if you have those with the potential to be stars and have them lose clean to a R Truth, a Dolph Ziggler, a Wade Barrett (should be a star but is damaged beyond repair at this point) then no one will care about them, so they won't become the stars they should be.
I absolutely agree that 90% of matches should have a clean finish, but trading wins helps no one.
The problem is trading wins. In WWE land it's incredibly common and incredibly damaging, your main event era should beat those below them and so on. Let's look at Wade Barrett for instance, he's been in this shitty feud where he's actually lost clean to R Truth on a number of occasions. That just outright shouldn't be happening, he's trading wins with a job guy and even though he got the win in the rubber match, he still looks like a complete dweeb. It's the reason they're not making any stars, because they're programming the idea that everyone behind Brock Lesnar and now the Undertaker (
There's a reason that a card should have a structure, only a certain number of guys and gals can be stars, who those people are is dependent on a number of factors, but if you have those with the potential to be stars and have them lose clean to a R Truth, a Dolph Ziggler, a Wade Barrett (should be a star but is damaged beyond repair at this point) then no one will care about them, so they won't become the stars they should be.
I absolutely agree that 90% of matches should have a clean finish, but trading wins helps no one.
But the other problem is if you don't want to trade wins then you must clearly establish that somebody is better than somebody else. Which then creates its own problems in that that person should win all the time. So either KO loses to Cena and then loses the next 5 too, or the other way round and Cena suddenly becomes midcard. It's completely unbelievable and should be ridiculed. Trading wins should be fine with superstars of equal stature, Barrett shouldn't be trading wins with R Truth I agree, but he could easily trade wins with Sheamus or someone of importance. There should be a field of superstars all of equal footing and ability challenging each other, not a set pecking order where one week we're to believe that this guy is the best but then as soon as the championship is lost he's all of a sudden supposed to be bobbins and the guy who was jobbing to him for the last 10 weeks is suddenly a credible champion.
There should be like 5 superstars of equal standing and ability all challenging for the WWE title in an actual believable scenario. Losing it to each other, mounting a serious challenge to get it back etc. Not just 'believe this guy is strong for a few months guys' then when he loses 'ok he's mystically weaker now while this guy is now super strong for a few months'.
I agree that the card should have structure, but there should be multiple people at each level of the structure. KO and Cena should be about the same IMO.
Barrett should be squashing Truth, but then face a challenge from someone of equal standing who can stand toe to toe with him.
Oh I completely agree that there shouldn't just be one person on each level, and everything you've just said. With Owens he's now established as being on a similar yet just lower level, which is a very good spot, the problem is how he's booked coming out of it. The problem you raise with someone magically becoming better than the person who has repeatedly beaten them has happened very recently and I'm amazed no one picked up on it. Charlotte went from being completely dominant over Sasha to losing 3 title matches in a row to her, it made no sense at all.
They are currently in a spot where everyone is pushed as being equal, and it's a large part of the reason they are struggling. They want to build new stars while booking them as midcarders. It just doesn't work that way.
He's not trading wins though is he?
3 matches, The records is Owens, Cena, Cena. That sole win was on a poor rushed network special.
As said, he's gone from someone who was unbeatable at NXT, attacked John Cena on his 1st appearance, beat Cena on his debut. To losing twice in a row, whilst losing his NXT title in between.
As said, it's shades of Rusev. Rusev had huge heat, then lost to Cena 3 times in a row.
The main issue i have now is that, if they don't have Owens go over at Summer Slam, then where does he go? Someone so impressive at start then gets beaten by Cena 3 times in a row. If he goes over at Summer Slam, you bet Cena, unless he's written off, is going to come back and this will continue and the whole thing gets tired. Cena won't be affected by being in a tired feud, Owens will though. So hopefully they will write Cena off for a bit, to elevate Owens and move him on to something else for a bit.
Ideally, Owens would of won Battleground, one last match at Summer Slam and then both move on.
Disagree here. Worked out very well for Brock. And there are no major heels right now. If just one of Bray, Rusev or KO had won the feud with Cena they would have another main event heel to work with. Instead, Bray is a fat neckbeard who talks a bunch of shit and loses a lot, Rusev is paired with Summer Rae and involved in the worst storyline in current WWE and Owens just lost the legitimacy he had from beating Cena the first time by losing twice in a row, one which involved tapping.
It happens all the time, it's really silly. It is ridiculous in the divas division where historically they would rotate champions without ever building the division. I don't think that ever star needs to be
And when Owens wins at Summerslam it will be 50/50. Great record against Cena, comes away as champion. It's your opinion that the feud is tiring. Loads of people love it. Cena has done great things for the belt.
Brock Lesnar is a freak of nature. Rusev is a major heel as is Rollins. Yes Rusev is in a pointless feud I agree but he's still a major heel and could regain his heat instantly if they stopped fecking around with him. Owens has not lost any legitimacy by losing to Cena at all I have to disagree. I can't see how anyone with any patience can think that. If the feud ended here then maybe, but the WWE runs their storylines for great lengths of time.
Ok you class Rusev as a major heel, but we now know Cena can beat him, so its a lot harder to take him seriously.
And as for the Owens thing, I'll be amazed if he ever gets another pin over Cena now. I can see him taking the US belt through a fatal 4 way where Cena doesn't get pinned. I find it baffling that he lost last night (and I say this as somebody who thinks Cena has been the best thing on Raw this year)
What works for Brock Lesnar won't work for most people. What's more important than the Cena feud in each case is what happened after, Bray lost clean in the middle to Chris "I'm a cool mom" Jericho. Rusev has managed to gain a lot of his heat back because Summer and Lana managed to carry the feud quite well with the highlighted dry wall Dolph in the corner while he was out.
Owens is far from a lost cause at this point. Have him feud with and go over Cesaro (who himself has gained a lot over the last few weeks) and he's in a great place again. Maybe have Owens win and hold the IC title for a while, there's plenty of ways of going about it. He lost a lot less legitimacy last night than Brock Lesnar did for instance.
I can't agree with the notion that if Cena can beat them you can't take them seriously. That's really ridiculous. Rusev can beat Cena, Cena can beat Rusev. It would be stupid if Cena couldn't beat Rusev. What's the point in Rusev ever wrestling another match unless he's going for breaking Brunos 7 year title reign or however long it was. No other opponent would ever be able to step in the ring with him, what's the point? John Cena can't even beat him.
It's been explained why Cena won, it makes no sense for Owens to take the title from Cena and then face Balor for the NXT championship the night before Summerslam which would be his first US title defence. That would be beyond stupid.
Ok humour me for a minute. Imagine Rusev won the Cena feud. That means that he's on a level with Cena who is untouchable at this point. He's so well established no loss will ever harm him. Next person Rusev loses to after that, or even almost loses to, becomes a bigger deal as well, putting them on a similar level to Rusev and Cena. Surely having more people who can be taken seriously as a main event threat can only be a good thing.
I did phrase it badly with the "cant' take seriously if Cena can beat them." If Rollins or somebody loses to Cena clean, then fine, good it suits his chickenshit character. But when Rusev or KO lose it doesn't suit their character at all. Wyatt has been on a downward spiral since. Wade Barrett has never recovered.
I like Cena, but he has been a glass ceiling for heels for too long now. Just losing one of those feuds would have given them a whole new star.
As for the bold, I didn't' realise that, it does make more sense now.
Why is Cena getting blamed for bad bookings? Barrett got a push winning the KotR, and then gets put into a feud with R-Truth ffs! Ambrose was in main event and suddenly drops totally out of the picture. Wyatt was pushed into feud with Ambrose which went nowhere, then a match with Taker (which he'll never win)...just pathetic bookings.
I'm referring back to Nexus with the Barrett thing
Battleground was a solid show imo however i'm pissed about Cena's win. Why ? I dont get it just let the kid have it! The match was good even though it was very similar to the last two matches and I cant take the AA seriously as a finisher anymore almost everyone has kicked out of the first one by now. Undertaker coming back is sorta meh I guess this will lead up to Lesnar vs Taker at SS but it doesnt really matter.
Anyways, I was wondering which Owen vs Cena match you guys liked the most. All three were really good but for me the first one stands out we got to see them go at it and I was really impressed with Owen's offense and the fact that he won was the icing on the cake I couldnt believe it.
Anyways, I was wondering which Owen vs Cena match you guys liked the most. All three were really good but for me the first one stands out we got to see them go at it and I was really impressed with Owen's offense and the fact that he won was the icing on the cake I couldnt believe it.
Good PPV I thought - I don't mind Ownes losing at all, he's better then the US title (even despite what Cena is doing for it) - He'll move onto bigger things (the title) before too long and nobdoy will be bothered that he tapped to Cena (and it sets-up a title match between the two down the line).
I also think people (not in here, just in general) shitting on Brie for the match are being way too harsh... considering the ability levels of the other two people in the ring, I thought she hung in there perfectly fine.
I also think people (not in here, just in general) shitting on Brie for the match are being way too harsh... considering the ability levels of the other two people in the ring, I thought she hung in there perfectly fine.
But there's nothing to say that Cena has won the feud. The feud looks set to continue. Cena is simply one match up at the moment. He's lost clean to Owens already and is constantly putting Owens over saying how great he is.
Sometimes you've just got two really good competitors and one has to lose. It's all about the bigger picture and end result which I believe will culminate at Summerslam.
It's a mixture of a lot of things really.
Yeah it's booking, but it's also Cena reluctant to put over newer talent, probably any at this stage.
Basically, if the feud continues and Owens wins at Summerslam its fine. If they end it or Owens doesnt, hes basically another Bray, Rusev, Barrett, whoever which is fair.
I hate that Bray has become a main event jobber then beats Reigns, who for some reason is still getting booed, which makes no sense. Im not even sure those who are booing him know why they are booing him.
Anyway, I always hear that wins and losses mean nothing in WWE, but it clearly does for some matches, especially those at the top.
For Summerslam, Id rather see
Brock Vs Taker Vs Rollins than Taker vs Brock
For the US title, they need another Owens vs Cena even if it includes Rusev and Cesaro, but Owens really needs to win the match / title by beating Cena.
And having Taker be the one to stop Brock would be a terrible decision WWE could make for long term.
I hate that Bray has become a main event jobber then beats Reigns, who for some reason is still getting booed, which makes no sense. Im not even sure those who are booing him know why they are booing him.
Anyway, I always hear that wins and losses mean nothing in WWE, but it clearly does for some matches, especially those at the top.
For Summerslam, Id rather see
Brock Vs Taker Vs Rollins than Taker vs Brock
For the US title, they need another Owens vs Cena even if it includes Rusev and Cesaro, but Owens really needs to win the match / title by beating Cena.
And having Taker be the one to stop Brock would be a terrible decision WWE could make for long term.
Zarlak explains it well. I don't see why they have to win against Cena to put over new talent. Almost everyone who was in a US Championship match with Cena came out better. KO, Sami Zayn, Cesaro have all benefitted greatly irrespective of the match result. I wouldn't mind seeing KO, Rusev and Cesaro fighting it out amongst themselves before they even get to the belt. With Cena holding it has so many possibilities and that best is finally getting interesting!
They came out better but they still lost. Yes they are slightly more popular, but they are not being pushed up that ladder.
Imagine where Bray, Rusev, Barrett and Ryback could be if they went over against Cena. Not just one match, but the whole feud. Be the guy that finally beat Cena, the guy that finally made Cena give up...
Instead look what happened to each of them after the Cena feud's they've gone no where. You go against the top guy, you lose and go down.. You go against the top guy, win and you stay at that level.
The issue is by doing this WWE are lacking people who are that top tier, and instead trying the same old things and judging by the fact they brought back Brock early, and now brought Undertaker back.. shows how well it's working for them.
WWE's 2nd biggest PPV will be a card filled with part timers, because they have nobody that can fill out that card. Undertaker, Brock, Sting, Triple H...
Catching up. Divas match was very good, not surprising considering Sacha can do little wrong.
It's a myth, or simply just out dated. Cena is constantly putting Owens over. Hes lost clean to him already, is having a great feud with him and he's always talking him up about how great he is.
Fairly sure Cole said the Cena/Owens match last night was the "rubber match" which would signify to me that the feud is over since Vince is always in Cole's ear.
Did I just see Cena hit the Canadian Destroyer?
The booking (not his fault obviously) for Ryback has been god damn awful. A year or so back he was the bully, a month ago he actually says on RAW I hate bullies? What the actual...? He's improved vastly, still I find it very difficult to care about him. More so cause he is working a program with The Miz.
Yep it will either by a 3 way dance or fatal 4-way and Owens will most likely pin Rusev / Cesaro. Vince can't have his precious Cena damaged in any way imaginable.
So going into Summerslam, Owens will be on losing streak of 4 loses. Not just any loses but two to Cena and two to Balor and they are very high profile matches.
If the Summer slam match is a 3way or a 4way it won't really be 2-2 between Owens and Cena because Owens will pin one of the other guys and Cena technically will still be 2-1 vs Owens.
Going from being Unbeaten and the hottest property in the business to 4 straight loses, including a title loss and failing to win the US Title in the matter of what, 2 months? Some would suggest that is a burial. Of course he has looked great in each of those 4 matches but I can certainly understand peoples anger and suggestions of a burial.
Like many others here, Hugely disappointed with Cena picking the win up last night. Personally I would of preferred a slow build towards Summerslam myself and had the rubber match there between the two of them. Failing that last night should of had a run in and it ended in a no contest, the former would probably of suited better considering Old Man interfered in the Lesnar match.
Speaking of which, I've always been a huge taker fan (who isn't really?) but it's getting so feckin embarrassing at this point and he actually looked like he was struggling to stand upright, was it just me or was he hunched over? I'd say those two tombstones will have in rehab now til Summerslam.
Plus side, you can actually forgo the make up now with him as he legit looks like "The Deadman".
BTW, There seems to be quite a few rumours going around I'm noticing more and more about WWE's finances, ratings being down and apparently last night's event only had approx 10k fans in a 15k plus arena.
People will say it'll never happen, but if they keep the product as it currently is and the piss poor booking for another 5 years or more then I could honestly see WWE hitting some serious financial issues. Happened once or twice before and WCW at one point had similar financial figures to what WWE have and we all know how that played out. I compare WCW because I look at whats happening in WWE now and they are making all the same mistakes WCW did back between 99-01.
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Cena/Owens, questionable booking apart, was excellent.
Decent enough opening day, all pretty watchable (of the tournament matches) except Gallows vs Tenzan, that was just atrocious. How on earth did TNA not manage to make a star out of AJ Styles? Shame that they couldn't go longer with Shibata's bad arm, hope it heals enough in time for his match with Ibushi next Wednesday, probably the match I'm most looking forward to between now and the end of the year (unless they give us a Nakamura Styles final
)Sting will probably be with Roman and Bray. Sigh.
Tbf, he used to say he hated bullies while being a bully too, so that hasn't actually changed.