Television Tho Prop Grops Throps

Randall Flagg said:
For me that era was pretty much all the same. It started going downhill when they split RAW and Smackdown. And When Cena officially became their number 1 guy


I also loved the Dudley’s/Hardys/E&C , Cactus Jack HHH was superb too. Kurt Angle and the start of Lesners career all super. The start of the Invasion was unbelievably good for me as I had followed all 3 organisations so closely. But they really botched that in the long run
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Yeah, the Invasion started well, but in the end left them with way too many wrestlers, not enough air time, and no competition to keep them sharp.

Sometimes I wonder should they have kept WCW as a separate, or sister organisation, not sure if that was possible though.
 
fecking hell, not this again.

Randall Flagg said:
Who shits on the attitude era? Surely everyone can agree it was at its peak then. Certainly compared to the utter rubbish served up these days
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Well if you enjoy, you know, wrestling then the Attitude Era is a definite trough. Funnily enough the current stuff is a definite peak (aside from the fecking atrocious 20-25 minute distraction finished and DQ's on every damn WWE show).

LawCharltonBest said:
WWF with Austin, Rock at the top. Mr McMahon. Hardcore title. Real head chair shots. Blood. An interesting tag team division. Maybe around that time where Kurt Angle was new and rising.
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Two of the worst things in wrestling, period. Makes the Attitude Era downright unwatchable now.

EDIT: clarification, gratuitous blood. Very rarely blood is a great tool to a story (Austin vs Bret, Worlds Cutest Tag Team vs Young Bucks etc...)
 
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phelans shorts said:
fecking hell, not this again.



Well if you enjoy, you know, wrestling then the Attitude Era is a definite trough. Funnily enough the current stuff is a definite peak (aside from the fecking atrocious 20-25 minute distraction finished and DQ's on every damn WWE show).



Two of the worst things in wrestling, period. Makes the Attitude Era downright unwatchable now.
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There was still great matches all the way through but they balanced it perfectly with stories/entertainment

Blood and chair shots were great. Why the issues?
 
phelans shorts said:
There were next to no great wrestling matches.

Nigel McGuinness and Chris Benoit. Need I say more.
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Two rare examples. Wrestlings real biggest issue and always has been is steroids and addictions

And I dont have time to get into it, but having watched every show and PPV for pretty much all the 90's and early to mid 2000's I can tell you there was many, many classic matches.
 
Blood and chair shots were essential to convey just how brutal certain matches are/were.

I hate watching TLC or Hell in a Cell or streetfights/whatever nowadays when the match finishes and both wrestlers are absolutely fine and walk off like the match never happened. Might aswell be a pillow fight.
 
Randall Flagg said:
Two rare examples. Wrestlings real biggest issue and always has been is steroids and addictions

And I dont have time to get into it, but having watched every show and PPV for pretty much all the 90's and early to mid 2000's I can tell you there was many, many classic matches.
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Name me, say ten, matches between Tyson showing up and that stuff, until the Radicalz showing up that are better than a match that struggles to get in the top five matches of its year in the Shield vs Hell No and Ryback.

The wrestling is without a doubt MUCH better now. Fact.

matherto said:
Blood and chair shots were essential to convey just how brutal certain matches are/were.

I hate watching TLC or Hell in a Cell or streetfights/whatever nowadays when the match finishes and both wrestlers are absolutely fine and walk off like the match never happened. Might aswell be a pillow fight.
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Is this worth guys getting hepatitis over? Or a repeat of the Benoit incident?

You're actually perfectly showing the biggest issue with the Attitude Era, the mentality it has left in its wake. I've gone into detail before but your mindset is the reason guys struggle to get over now. You think if a guy is laid out after one hit with a chair he's weak, when in reality that's how it should be.

I'm beginning to wonder if that mindset is now so engrained that the American audience (most of the world fits this) will never be able to watch proper stuff ever again. Scorched earth and all that.
 
phelans shorts said:
Name me, say ten, matches between Tyson showing up and that stuff, until the Radicalz showing up that are better than a match that struggles to get in the top five matches of its year in the Shield vs Hell No and Ryback.

The wrestling is without a doubt MUCH better now. Fact.



.
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Im really not going to go searching to remember them all. It was a long time ago

As far as putting on a 20-30 min match for a PPV I dont see any of the current gen being able to compare to the stuff back then. Im not doubting their athletic ability here. I am talking entertaining matches which also included props etc... My favourite of all time was Undertaker and Mankind in the first hello in a cell

As for the weekly shows, I never cared too much about matches they put on. That was all for the storylines and purely for entertainment. And todays doesnt even come close

I reckon most people would include their favourite moments and matches from this era (97-02)
 
Today's WWE lads are limited by the "rules" of the company. Essentially, how do you put on a good story in terms of good vs bad if the bad guy is just winning using their athleticism. So the matches are more clinical and technical, but it can be hard to invest in characters. If you don't watch week in week out it'd be hard to know who you're meant to be supporting in matches which makes them dull.
 
The main reason why everyone is so in love with the Attitude Era is because the same people that used to watch WWE at the time is the same demographic that is currently dominating internet fora as 30-odds, reminiscing on how everything used to be better in the day. But when you look at it objectively, then currently the overall talent is way better than back in the Attitude Era (where the big dogs were class, no argument there, but below that the mid card level was poor). Blading was so common that blood didn't even shock anymore and not seldom just served as cheap thrill to hide the actual poorness of shot deliveries. It was irresponsible, sometimes downright unprofessional, and the sideline shenanigans often seemed more important than the actual wrestling itself.

I'm not denying it wasn't entertaining stuff, and the whole Raw - Smackdown split really wasn't anything more than a truly weak attempt at recreating the feuding excitement of the WWE - WCW battles, but with the current roster there is potential for a great future. If they only dared spinning out storylines (not only main ones but also midcard ones) over a longer period than 2-3 months and be a bit more consistent, it could be awesome.
 
How comes when Big Show used to punch people before they would stay on their feet and punch back, yet now they lay knocked out for about 5 minutes?
 
Zarlak said:
'Cos it's a knock out punch, duh.
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What's the difference? Why didn't he knock them out with his punches from day 1? Its clearly an easy knockout. He could've been Champion for the last 15 years by just punching them in every match
 
LawCharltonBest said:
What's the difference? Why didn't he knock them out with his punches from day 1? Its clearly an easy knockout. He could've been Champion for the last 15 years by just punching them in every match
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Because it wasn't called a knockout punch back then. It's the same reason why ziggler can deliver 10 elbows to the ribs in quick succession without knocking out an opponent (unless you are called Jerry Lawler) but the Rock only has to do one people's elbow to win the match. It's suspension of disbelief.
 
Apparently, they rigged the voting for the Slammys and it certainly looks that way.

original.jpg


Also, WWE employees and bookers have comes out on Twitter trying to deny it
 
Lol I would have never noticed that. Brock Lesnar should have won it really. He squashed Taker at Mania and Cena twice. Who does that ever?!
 
To be honest I've always operated under the assumption that every single WWE app voting thing is rigged. Either by them just making up the results by themselves for things like the Slammy's or heavily hinting toward a specific vote being the 'best' choice (for example - J+J security being partners for Rollins).
 
Welsh Wonder said:
To be honest I've always operated under the assumption that every single WWE app voting thing is rigged. Either by them just making up the results by themselves for things like the Slammy's or heavily hinting toward a specific vote being the 'best' choice (for example - J+J security being partners for Rollins).
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Same as that, never believe them.
 
Randall Flagg said:
Two rare examples. Wrestlings real biggest issue and always has been is steroids and addictions

And I dont have time to get into it, but having watched every show and PPV for pretty much all the 90's and early to mid 2000's I can tell you there was many, many classic matches.
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Name ten and I will name you ten either side of the attitude era that were better.
 
Anyone else exited about the possible release of a movie about Christ Benoit's life and murder/suicide?

I haven't watched wrestling in years but I will definitely give it a watch, if it happens. Does anyone have any info on it? IMDB has very little. There is some real potential to explore mental illness and the darker side of wrestling.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2102498/
 
Every time there was news on the Benoit story, I always remember the two same demands popping up. Liam Neeson as Benoit, Sean Bean as Trips.
 
I believe Wrestling matches are better now but back in the attitude era, the booking was better top to bottom which meant you invested more time into the matches when they took place. And thus wrestling as a whole was better then. The characters, the angles and storylines for the most were more enjoyable.

The crowd involvement also make matches. If a crowd just sits on their hands and makes no noise, no matter how hard the wrestlers try, its a bust. Likewise a "sloppy" match with the crowd going wild at everything is better because it might tell a better story. Problem with most of the matches nowadays is that its a throwaway match.

Harper vs Rowan. Their first face off since the Wyatts split, was a throwaway match on Raw with no build, no hype, no promos, nothing. It just happened. Why should I care if WWE arent telling me to care. Most likely that match would have been built and hyped to heights years ago.

Another aspect is the commentary. Commentary is meant to enhance matches and thats what JR was brilliant at . He made it seem like what you were watching was so important. Nowadays you have JBL spoiling every match and Cole and Lawler going along with it because JBL is so overbearing.
 
The matches were maybe not as good in 1999 but, in 1997, 1998, 2000 and 2001, most matches were pretty damn good and one's I enjoyed the most. I seemed to be invested in them more. Maybe it was the story telling or the booking, I don't know.

Also, the best thing about Raw, back between 1997 and April 2001, once you heard the glass break, you knew it was guaranteed to be a great episode.

There is no one on the current roster that even comes close to doing that.
 
Rolandofgilead said:
Name ten and I will name you ten either side of the attitude era that were better.
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Im talking 97-02


Off the top of my head and considering im fairly out of touch these stand out

1st 2 TLC matches
1st 2 HIAC
Cactus Jack C HHH
Rock V Austin (Heel turn)
Brett V Austin (97)
HHH V taker (Wmania)
Angle V Jerricho V Benoit (Wmania)
Angle V Brock
Rock V Hogan
Michael V Austin (wmania)


There was also loads more involving Angle, Benoit, Eddie, RVD, and many more that I cannot quite remember
 
Kazi said:
Every time there was news on the Benoit story, I always remember the two same demands popping up. Liam Neeson as Benoit, Sean Bean as Trips.
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Every time I think of Benoit I still think how god damn strange that story that came out that his wiki page was updated hours before the bodies were found
 
Sylar said:
I believe Wrestling matches are better now but back in the attitude era, the booking was better top to bottom which meant you invested more time into the matches when they took place. And thus wrestling as a whole was better then. The characters, the angles and storylines for the most were more enjoyable.

The crowd involvement also make matches. If a crowd just sits on their hands and makes no noise, no matter how hard the wrestlers try, its a bust. Likewise a "sloppy" match with the crowd going wild at everything is better because it might tell a better story. Problem with most of the matches nowadays is that its a throwaway match.

Harper vs Rowan. Their first face off since the Wyatts split, was a throwaway match on Raw with no build, no hype, no promos, nothing. It just happened. Why should I care if WWE arent telling me to care. Most likely that match would have been built and hyped to heights years ago.

Another aspect is the commentary. Commentary is meant to enhance matches and thats what JR was brilliant at . He made it seem like what you were watching was so important. Nowadays you have JBL spoiling every match and Cole and Lawler going along with it because JBL is so overbearing.
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Ha, I've actually just (before coming here) posted much the same complaint on another site. I'll post it here too:

I want WWE to start taking more time with their storylines, to actually build them.

Take Rowan for example. You've got the opportunity there for a great storyline where he sheds the manchild image and manages to reintegrate himself into society after months of being brainwashed by Bray Wyatt. Team him up occasionally with another face wrestler who's taken pity on him, and who's trying to help him out, and have them stop him when he tries to do something heel, because that's what he's conditioned to do. All the while, Harper should be popping up every now and then (not every week), and doing something to stop the gradual face turn, saying something to Rowan to make him think that the Wyatt way is the right way. Then, eventually, you've got a fully face Rowan about to face Harper who's been trying to mess him up for months, and there's actually story behind the fight, there's a clear grudge between the two.

Or you could just turn Rowan face instantly, have him randomly be a genius, and have the two fight without it mattering at all.


JBL's awful on commentary these days. All he does is shout the lines that Vince wants established over the top of Cole and King, like with the Big Show/Del Rio storyline every five seconds it was "HE POKED THE BEAR, MAGGLE. YOU DON'T POKE THE BEAR, MAGGLE."
 
May try and go the full day tomorrow avoiding NXT results to watch it tomorrow night, should be a belter.
 
Welsh Wonder said:
What time is is meant to be on? Please don't say it's already started.
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Nah, about 1am our time. Think I'm pretty much looking forward to the lot. Sascha v Charlotte, Owens (Steen) debut, Ascension v Itami/Balor, Dragons v Vaudvillans and of course Neville v Zayn should be phenominal given time. Throw in a Baron Corbin appearance and you've got 2 solid hours.
 
Have a feeling this is Zayns time :D


Minkaro said:
Ha, I've actually just (before coming here) posted much the same complaint on another site. I'll post it here too:

I want WWE to start taking more time with their storylines, to actually build them.

Take Rowan for example. You've got the opportunity there for a great storyline where he sheds the manchild image and manages to reintegrate himself into society after months of being brainwashed by Bray Wyatt. Team him up occasionally with another face wrestler who's taken pity on him, and who's trying to help him out, and have them stop him when he tries to do something heel, because that's what he's conditioned to do. All the while, Harper should be popping up every now and then (not every week), and doing something to stop the gradual face turn, saying something to Rowan to make him think that the Wyatt way is the right way. Then, eventually, you've got a fully face Rowan about to face Harper who's been trying to mess him up for months, and there's actually story behind the fight, there's a clear grudge between the two.

Or you could just turn Rowan face instantly, have him randomly be a genius, and have the two fight without it mattering at all.


JBL's awful on commentary these days. All he does is shout the lines that Vince wants established over the top of Cole and King, like with the Big Show/Del Rio storyline every five seconds it was "HE POKED THE BEAR, MAGGLE. YOU DON'T POKE THE BEAR, MAGGLE."
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Its true isnt it? Why should we care about people if they clearly dont care.

Vinces podcast with Austin was shocking in many ways as well as being interesting.
His reaction to why Cesaro is not connecting right now and at least Austin made a comment but wish he had pushed further cos it falls on Vince) was bizarre.
Saying that Cena is the only one that grabbed the brass ring (when weve seen whats happened with Punk and Bryan despite WWEs attempts) is shocking as well.

one comment from Punks shoot will always remain in my mind
"you would think WWE would be better when Vince is gone, but then you realise it will be left to HHH and Steph" (Paraphrased of course)
Now i enjoy NXT and hope thats where Raw could go but that is years and years and years away as long as its all in Vinces vision.
 
Will watch it later, but it sounds like NXT is showing the main roster how it's done...Not that I'm surprised.
 
Entrances get people over. That is the king of entrances. If Finn Balor makes his WWE debut with one of his trademark PPV set-ups, he'll be over quicker than the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.
 
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