Television Tho Prop Grops Throps

I can't see the WWE taking this too well to be honest... I hope I'm wrong, but they do like to get petty sometimes.

Punk sounds like the Roy Keane of the Wrestling world (not that I'm saying thats a bad thing)... a huge chip on his shoulder, always striving for the best possible thing/outcome at any given time, and being pissed off... a lot.
 
Earthquake said:
:lol: He really does overrate himself. I guess in that business you have to, though.
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Whilst I completely agree with what you are saying, his match with Taker far outshone Rock/Cena 2 (and I think a lot of people were very unhappy with them doing Twice in a Lifetime), and his match with Jericho was technically better than Rock Cena 1 (though obviously, everybody was looking forward far more to Cena vs Rock 1. It's how I started watching again after stopping when I was about 10)
 
Listened to it there.....One thing that comes to mind, Stone Cold Steve Austin in 2002.

The WWE shat on the two of them when they walked out/left and Austin and Punk don't, and never have, come across as liars or bullshitters. Especially Austin. I believe Punk is truthful in what he was said here.

Having said that, I hate Punk! Except his t shirts though. They're cool
 
Zen said:
Just because you've met him doesn't mean you know him in the slightest. Of course he's going to play nice with fans.

It's quite clear HHH feels threatened by smart wrestling minds though, since he barely gave Jericho a rub either, who Punk modelled himself after a lot. Jericho doesn't "care" as much as Punk does though, so gets on with that endless burial.
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I also think Jericho is far more interesting in creating something interesting/memorable from a storytelling standpoint then Punk - who came across as very much push whats hot/strong matches kind of thing (though I might be wrong). I've heard Jericho say on numerous occasions that winning/losing doesn't matter in the WWE, it's just how you do it that's important.
 
gormless said:
Whilst I completely agree with what you are saying, his match with Taker far outshone Rock/Cena 2 (and I think a lot of people were very unhappy with them doing Twice in a Lifetime), and his match with Jericho was technically better than Rock Cena 1 (though obviously, everybody was looking forward far more to Cena vs Rock 1. It's how I started watching again after stopping when I was about 10)
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They were both absolutely excellent matches yes.
 
That Punk stuff was really interesting. I never really liked him as a person, he comes across as egotistical and arrogant. Obviously overrates his ability too. However he was really good in the ring and I enjoyed many of his matches. I remember watching/reading interviews with him and he always was determined to achieve the goals he had set out, and main eventing WM was his last one. I think that will really burn away at him, despite him saying he is at peace with it now.
 
I read a piece there by a guy who has cystic fibrosis who is on the meds punk was on for the lump on his back. According to him it's the correct treatment for staph, but by all accounts the doc may have missed it turn into mrsa.
 
Tbh, he never deserved to main event Mania, especially at the point he fought for it. He'd been coasting for a long time at that point, his long run as champion was fecking awful.
 
Earthquake said:
Tbh, he never deserved to main event Mania, especially at the point he fought for it. He'd been coasting for a long time at that point, his long run as champion was fecking awful.
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Really? Why do you think that? I enjoyed his reign.
 
ZDwyr said:
Really? Why do you think that? I enjoyed his reign.
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Matches were boring, and as, if not more "5 moves" than any Cena match(DB does this all the time too, but never gets slated for it, feck sake Stone Cold only had 3 moves and one of them was punch). Promos became very whiny and repetitive too.
 
Yeah I don't buy into the 5 moves of doom stuff. In the WWE all performers have a move set that is pretty limited. It's just how it works, people need to realise that every performer is the same. I don't really remember too much from the run specifically. But the fact there was a long title run (and it wasn't Cena) was a good thing and made it more enjoyable for me.
 
ZDwyr said:
Yeah I don't buy into the 5 moves of doom stuff. In the WWE all performers have a move set that is pretty limited. It's just how it works, people need to realise that every performer is the same. I don't really remember too much from the run specifically. But the fact there was a long title run (and it wasn't Cena) was a good thing and made it more enjoyable for me.
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Me neither. It bugs me though, when it gets used to beat certain unpopular wrestlers, when everyone does it. I think the closest guy to not doing it weekly on Raw was Jericho in his early years, who still did it, but every week seemed to pull out one unusual move, a Northern Lights Suplex, a Dragon Backbreker, whatever.
 
ZDwyr said:
Yeah I don't buy into the 5 moves of doom stuff. In the WWE all performers have a move set that is pretty limited. It's just how it works, people need to realise that every performer is the same. I don't really remember too much from the run specifically. But the fact there was a long title run (and it wasn't Cena) was a good thing and made it more enjoyable for me.
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The 5 moves of doom probably stems from Cena being a career face at this point. Most guys change it up with heel runs, and heels work most of the match. Its like Cesaro now, he has big set pieces but he has to link it all together. A face Cesaro probably gets beat down all match then hits the throw up uppercut, a big swing and a neutralizer "outta nowhere".
 
Not even that, the problem with cenas 5mod is that he doesnt sell the beating he was taking for the previous 15 minutes whatsoever. Just hits his sequence and thats it, game over. Any other face sells their injuries, he either cant sell or just straight refuses to (the more i hear about him it seems to be the latter).
 
The thing that annoyed me more with Cena, was when he was taking a beating for like 10 straight minutes, suddenly he pops up like a spring chicken and does an AA like he's just got out of bed. He rarely looks withered or laboured, it just makes it seem less believable.
 
EvilChuck said:
Not even that, the problem with cenas 5mod is that he doesnt sell the beating he was taking for the previous 15 minutes whatsoever. Just hits his sequence and thats it, game over. Any other face sells their injuries, he either cant sell or just straight refuses to (the more i hear about him it seems to be the latter).
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Adam-Utd said:
The thing that annoyed me more with Cena, was when he was taking a beating for like 10 straight minutes, suddenly he pops up like a spring chicken and does an AA like he's just got out of bed. He rarely looks withered or laboured, it just makes it seem less believable.
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Nails on heads.
 
Yup, that's Cenas real weakness, he selling. Criminal underseller, tbh, I find that even worse than Ziggler and his criminal overselling(to be fair, seemed well toned down at Survivor).
 
Yeah there is no question that Cena's selling is an issue. I love Dolph's style. I know he goes over the top with it sometimes but for me he is one of the best on the company ATM.
 
I think overselling is better than underselling, but then obviously if you go full Micheal's it's worse. Definitely a fine balance you need to find, which I think Ziggler usually has. :lol:
 
Ziggler is a great wrestler, probably one of the best technicians, but the slapstick overselling is awful(like I say though, he looks to be toning it down nicely), the Rock and Jeff Hardy were the same. Could lead to more injuries too, in a business that's too dangerous as is.

Coincidentally, thought CM Punk was one of the better sellers of recent times, especially at carrying knocks.
 
Has Cena ever turned heel?

I know he was when he first debuted, but apart from that

I actually really liked him when he first made his debut as a heel
 
Problem with selling moves is that these days it has to work both for the live audience and for tv audiences. In order to show distress to the people in the back of the venue, you need to actively draw attention to the injury. So lots of limping and holding the injured area, and rolling around on the mat. But with TV camera's so close to, heck sometimes even inside, the ring, for a tv audience this can look like a massive oversell. Especially if it has already been talked up by Cole/JBL, who you can hear at home but not in the ring. It's difficult striking a good balance. All I know is that some of the best live WWE matches I have ever seen are Ziggler's. Selling moves is an art, and at the moment it's guys like Ziggler, Cesaro, Rollins and Sammy Zane who seem to have figured out how to balance that art between large-scale expression and small-scale close-ups.
 
Earthquake said:
Ziggler is a great wrestler, probably one of the best technicians, but the slapstick overselling is awful(like I say though, he looks to be toning it down nicely), the Rock and Jeff Hardy were the same. Could lead to more injuries too, in a business that's too dangerous as is.

Coincidentally, thought CM Punk was one of the better sellers of recent times, especially at carrying knocks.
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I love The Rock's selling... Yeah he went a bit crazy for the Stunner (I reckon that was some sort of in-joke) and over-sold a lot, but his facials are great.

 
Cena's selling in a match is very poor but he takes the piss post-match.

Guy could be in a 60 minute Iron Man hell in a cell with barb wire ropes match and he'd still be smiling and bouncing around after he inevitably wins.
 
MJJ said:
Here are some of the bigger points he hits on, and this is written in order. I'm currently listening and will update as I go along. Still, I strongly encourage you go download the episode yourself:

  • He says that while people have remarked time and again that he couldn't change anything while sitting on his couch in Chicago he disagrees because it almost took him doing exactly that for meaningful change to occur. He indicates that while they may have done some things to spite him, he's really happy that certain things happened the way they did. He doesn't outright say that the Daniel Bryan run through WrestleMania 30 was because he left but he definitely hints at as much.
  • "It's okay to be bitter about some things. That's how you work through stuff."
  • He remarks that he's the happiest he's been in a really long time. "I'm the fecking happiest I've been in I don't know how long, at least three years, legitimately. I find these other things that have made me happy and I thought this thing that I loved, that I thought I loved, it just made me so miserable. All the time, it made me miserable. I guess the black and the white of it, when you boil it all down, the essence of it, was I was miserable, I was unhappy, feck it! I made myself happy. I left. That's what it boils down to. It wasn't an easy decision to make but it was also a long time coming."
  • He said there are many assumptions, like he was disgruntled with his creative direction, he was injured, he was mad about working with Triple H. "There's an element of truth in all those things but I can't say there was one big thing that led to my decision." He does say that the biggest was his health.
  • He despises the term "pipe bomb" now because everyone refers to promos as that now.
  • People were calling him about sponsor money after the pipe bomb and he pitched it to Vince McMahon, who wouldn't sign off on it. Then Brock Lesnar came in and was allowed to have sponsors on his wrestling gear.
  • The story behind the pitch to WWE on walking out with Chael Sonnen at a UFC show and how it would have been good business. Vince told him someone might die in a fight and there's no way they could let him go. Vince was also apparently appalled at the idea of women fighting in the UFC.
  • He says the environment is "creatively toxic" and gives examples of issues like pitching something to Vince, being told "no," and seeing John Cena doing that exact thing a week later.
  • For the fans who are cool fans of his and who would like to hear an explanation, he is giving it to them right now. For those who were demanding it and calling him a quitter, those people can go to hell. For that matter, just because you bought a t-shirt doesn't entitle you to anything and you didn't make him and WWE didn't make him. "WWE was a fecking pit stop." He said he's not defined by his job, and no one should be.
  • "That place should be the happiest place to work and they use that as some bizarre mindfeck. 'Go out there and have fun!' It's like 'feck you, this place sucks, and on top of that, you're not fecking paying me nearly enough to do this shit."
  • He brings up the WWE Network coming out and how he spent months asking questions and wasn't told anything.
  • He rails on WWE for how they treat wrestlers as far as concussion protocol goes, revealing that he was working through concussions (he got one in the Royal Rumble too, and the testing for it was a joke) and a knee injury and messed up ribs. He was still in a mindset of doing what was best for "the boys" so he gutted out a lot of situations he definitely shouldn't have.
  • When The Rock came back, he said he wanted to work babyface against a strong heel so Punk was given the choice to either turn heel or drop the WWE title to Daniel Bryan. He was told that if he turned heel and did the job, he would be owed one. So he made the sacrifice, one he admits wasn't that big of a sacrifice. He does say he tried to politic his way into the main event of WrestleMania, making Rock vs. Cena into a three-way before they booked him against Undertaker.
  • Punk talks about WWE plans to get him a heater after WrestleMania and he reveals The Shield was his idea, believe it or not. They wanted a heel stable that would have included Punk, Big Show, Daniel Bryan, and Seth Rollins. So he pitched that they pick three guys from developmental to create the stable. They asked who he wanted and he said "Rollins, Dean Ambrose, and Chris Hero." Triple H vetoed Hero and they put Roman Reigns in that spot instead. The idea was to put The Shield with Punk but plans changed.
  • He says the Ryback program took years off his life because of how green he is. He also calls Ryback "steroid guy" because "I call it like I see it" and reveals that Ryback kicked him in the stomach so hard during a match it broke his ribs and he never got an apology or call about it.
  • "I wrestled that match with Undertaker at WrestleMania with the biggest fecking chip on my shoulder because I knew it was going to be better than Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H and The Rock vs. John Cena." They admitted that he should have went on last and he got "so fecking mad" before demanding that they should pay him like he went on last and they didn't.
  • He harps on wrestlers not taking a stand against the machine, going along with stories that don't make any sense for anyone. He said the only people who say anything are Cena and maybe Randy Orton.
  • His response to being told they wanted him to do the job to Brock Lesnar was to wonder who was coming to work the next day and, of course, being told that he would but Brock wouldn't and there wouldn't be a rematch at the next show. So he found a way to get excited about doing what they asked, working with Chris Jericho at Payback and Lesnar at SummerSlam, thinking it would help his case for the main event of WrestleMania the next year.
  • He takes a shot at Triple H not putting over Curtis Axel the way he had originally said he was going to, and wanting to work with him to help elevate him. Instead, they booked him with Ryback again and once again, Ryback injured him with a guerrilla press spot where he missed the table. That's one of the things he's bitter about.
  • Confirmed: He shit his pants during SmackDown late last year and tells the story of tweeting it and being told he couldn't tweet that and had to take it down. Many realized and reported on Punk unfollowing the WWE Twitter account not long after. It turns out he blocked them.
  • He complained about the pay he received from his WrestleMania match with Undertaker on the basis that he had the best match on the card and he should have been paid equal to everyone else on the card. When he found out that wasn't the case, he was outraged by it because "no one else on that card could have laced my boots that night". When Cabana brings up Rock being a huge movie star and that bringing in more fans, Punk says he doesn't care and WrestleMania is what draws at this point and no one can tell him different.
  • The treatment he received for a large mass on his back was laughable, with the doctor not doing much of anything about it as it grew more and more.
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Not that there was any doubt but yes confirmation that CM Punk is bitter, resentful and deluded. He's got this notion that the WWE is this big democracy where everyone gets to have a say, that's not how it works surely he should have known this. He quite simply isn't a Rock, an Austin, an Undertaker or a John Cena so he was never going to get unlimited power.
For a guy who held the world title for an entire year and got to face the Undertaker at Wrestlemania he sure does love to play the part of a mistreated doormat.
There have been wrestlers just as talented in the past who haven't even held the title once, the health stuff is a concern but I'm sure there's more to it than what he says.
 
Speaking of selling, love Hall selling the feck out of the stunner at WM18.

Like so...
scott-hall-stunner-o.gif
 
I dont think Punk came across as bitter. He told his side of the story and obviously it didnt reflect well on some, but then its not like he was in total bash mode. He didnt really say a bad word about Cena or Batista or even Orton. He sounded happy for Shield and Bryan.

Most of what he said about creative is what Austin said / walked away from.
Most of what he said about health is what Angle said as well and has been reported numerous times.
Most of what he said about HHH regarding the "summer of punk" is what most agreed on here / internet when he killed the momentum.

He might rate himself high, but how is that even a problem? The biggest thing he said about his ability is that he was told his match was the "true main event" and he told Vince / HHH if you believe that, pay me to reflect that. And that also he will be losing to Rock, Taker and then Brock but then the day after, it would be him wrestling with knocks whilst they go off which is true.

Forgetting Punk for a second, I think thats the biggest problem, WM is all about parttimers now (or people from Attitude era cos they keep saying that era is the best meaning this is terrible in comparison) so im surprised more people who work there dont have a gripe about that cos it will affect their pay long term.
 
It's surprising how often that kind of thing happens. I know Cena shat under the ring once, I think Vince either crapped or pissed himself right before a promo, Andre The Giant had the squits right on Bad News Brown, during a corner butt bump.

DX shat on everything, apparently.
 
Earthquake said:
It's surprising how often that kind of thing happens. I know Cena shat under the ring once, I think Vince either crapped or pissed himself right before a promo, Andre The Giant had the squits right on Bad News Brown, during a corner butt bump.

DX shat on everything, apparently.
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HHH pissed himself when Brock brawled with him a few years back as well I think.
 
Speaking of selling, imo Heath Slater is one of the best in WWE for it. He managed to make a 50+ year old Vader look dangerous!
 
Just read an article on the whole Punk thing. Dreaming, I know but could you imagine Punk doing what Austin did to WCW when he was axed and going on TNA when they start on their new network and takes 20 minutes of airtime to just go off on the WWE. Never gonna happen but if I were in TNA I'd leave him an open offer, they'd probably get the biggest rating they've ever had.
 
1.3 would be their biggest rating ever right?

Punk hates TNA anyway and probably hates wrestling. Lets be honest, if he was to go back to wrestling it wouldnt be to TNA. I think TNA blew their chance a few years ago when they went with Bischoff/Hogan/Russo instead of Heyman.
 
Earthquake said:
It's surprising how often that kind of thing happens. I know Cena shat under the ring once, I think Vince either crapped or pissed himself right before a promo, Andre The Giant had the squits right on Bad News Brown, during a corner butt bump.

DX shat on everything, apparently.
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That Vince story is incredible, he sharted in Gorilla, went out, cut a promo with his pants slowly turning brown as he talked, went into the back and proceeded to spend most of the rest of the show with some of the boys chasing Gerry Briscoe (he was throwing guys like HHH off him pretty easily given his amateur background) with his notoriously weak stomach to shove the pants in his face trying to get him to puke.

Vince is the greatest man to ever live, that there is no doubt of.


Duffy said:
Just read an article on the whole Punk thing. Dreaming, I know but could you imagine Punk doing what Austin did to WCW when he was axed and going on TNA when they start on their new network and takes 20 minutes of airtime to just go off on the WWE. Never gonna happen but if I were in TNA I'd leave him an open offer, they'd probably get the biggest rating they've ever had.
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I can't imagine TNA doing anything tbh. They're only number 4 promotion in the US at this point, probably 5.
 
From what I've read, TNA is getting close to it's last legs, be daft of Punk to go there, and one thing he's not, is stupid.

phelans shorts said:
That Vince story is incredible, he sharted in Gorilla, went out, cut a promo with his pants slowly turning brown as he talked, went into the back and proceeded to spend most of the rest of the show with some of the boys chasing Gerry Briscoe (he was throwing guys like HHH off him pretty easily given his amateur background) with his notoriously weak stomach to shove the pants in his face trying to get him to puke.

Vince is the greatest man to ever live, that there is no doubt of.
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Never before has someone shit themselves and ended up the hero of the piece.
 
Earthquake said:
Tbh, I fecking hate Punk, but he's never been a bullshitter. Except in rating himself.
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I respectfully disagree with your rating of punks ability, I have always rated him, even from his ROH days, I think he's a superb talent.

On a side note, I can't find the colt cobana podcast featuring punk, has it been pulled?
 
Rolandofgilead said:
I respectfully disagree with your rating of punks ability, I have always rated him, even from his ROH days, I think he's a superb talent.

On a side note, I can't find the colt cobana podcast featuring punk, has it been pulled?
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I think you misunderstand me. I absolutely rate his ability. Excellent technician, very good seller, very good on the mic. I heavily dislike him, and while I do rate him ability wise, I don't think he's close to the level *he* believes his is/was. As in, WrestleMania main eventer, equal draw to the likes of The Rock and The Undertaker. Especially the last year of his WWE run, where he phoned in a lot, which was odd, when he was trying to fight for a WM main event, and was clearly capable of a whole lot more.
 
Earthquake said:
I think you misunderstand me. I absolutely rate his ability. Excellent technician, very good seller, very good on the mic. I heavily dislike him, and while I do rate him ability wise, I don't think he's close to the level *he* believes his is/was. As in, WrestleMania main eventer, equal draw to the likes of The Rock and The Undertaker. Especially the last year of his WWE run, where he phoned in a lot, which was odd, when he was trying to fight for a WM main event, and was clearly capable of a whole lot more.
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But if what he says is true, he spent that year working through injuries and being forced into shit programs. They should never have put HHH over him, they should never have had Nash text himself, they shouldn't have put him in with rybeck, the series of program's they put him in were horrendous, Jericho aside which was a very good feud. I think that after the infamous pipe bomb promo and him walking out the company with the title, they booked him terribly, but he still carried the company for a year, he totally deserved to main event mania.

I will go so far as to say this. Turning punk heel and having him drop the title to The Rock was a slap in the face to every wrestling fan in the world. Did the cena vs Rock rematch need the title?

Fast forward a year, punk still working through injuries, Batista and orton is being booked into the mania main event and punk is being shoe horned into another match with HHH, I'm not convinced I would have put up with it to be honest.

But here's a thought....

Is it conceivable that we're all being worked? Let's just say punk had a fair few injuries and wanted time off, isn't it weird that after he turned face and was fed to Brock that they didn't have storylines for him? It seems odd to me that on the road to wrestlemania Beyan had his run going and Batista was chasing ortons title, undertaker had wrestled punk the year before and punk seemingly had nothing? Then he sits at home for the best part of a year before actually saying anything about his departure.....just think about that, cm punk the voice of the voiceless waits 11months before opening his mouth and coincidently, when he does finally say something, vince returns to TV a few weeks before and The Authority have been removed from power.

Perhaps I'm thinking too much about it but it all adds up in my head. I'm thinking that we will see a punk return sooner rather then later, the rumble perhaps or the night after on raw. It just makes sense to me that he will be outspoken for the next few weeks and then return to be the saviour.

That's how I'd book it.
 
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