West Ham certainly Bolieve......
Anybody else think Andy Carroll looks like Bo Dallas?
Television Tho Prop Grops Throps
- Thread starter Big-Red
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Always thought Orton looked a bit like Sexton
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Saying Wyatt need the win more than Cena does not mean that Cena has buried Wyatt. I'm not sure how you are making that connection. You seem to leap from one to the other when they're not the same.
Also, the Ultimate Warrior and Hulk Hogan are legends and highly regarded in the industry and look at some of the things they've said. It's the opposite end of the spectrum but I'm using it to show you why you can't take somebodies word just because 'they're well known in the business.'
There are a lot of well respected people worldwide that say something that's wrong some of the time. You can't hold them as infallible because they're well respected.
You're also still flopping between 'buried Bray' to 'buried everyone he ever worked with' to 'buried Barrett' to 'Edge and Jericho say he got it wrong with Barrett' to 'Edge and Jericho say he buried Barrett.'
I've not listened to it yet because I'm in work, but do they actually say he buried Barrett? Or do they say he got it wrong? Because they're not the same.
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The more I watch the replays, the more I think Shield was ended too soon. Seems they already feuded against Wyatts and evolution and nothing to go for. Bad move getting them off!
You might be right but if they hadn't split where were they to go? I think Rollins is going to get a huge rub working with Evolution, it made perfect sense to replace Batista with a young yet well established star, Evolution has evolved. As for Reigns and Ambrose perhaps they'll go their seperate ways or perhaps they'll also recruit a new member and continue the war (which is the way that i would go now if i was booking) on a side note, I was impressed with Adam Rose on raw, solid but short match, plenty of charisma, looks dangerous and sells very well. One to watch. Better hope Cena doesn't get hold of him hey cantona....
I think it would be a bad idea to recruit a new member to The Shield. It just wouldn't be the same and I can't see whoever they add getting over as one of The Shield.
Since Rollins was 'the glue' that held Ambrose and Reigns together it makes more sense for Ambrose and Reigns to get pissed off with each other.
What's more likely if The Shield do stay together is that it's going to be 2v2 Orton/Rollins vs Reigns/Ambrose and HHH will retire into the Flair role. He already said he prefers to not wrestle because the training he has to go through to get back into ring shape is ridiculous.
Since Rollins was 'the glue' that held Ambrose and Reigns together it makes more sense for Ambrose and Reigns to get pissed off with each other.
What's more likely if The Shield do stay together is that it's going to be 2v2 Orton/Rollins vs Reigns/Ambrose and HHH will retire into the Flair role. He already said he prefers to not wrestle because the training he has to go through to get back into ring shape is ridiculous.
I read somewhere earlier that Vince decided on Rollins' turning heel after poor ratings for last weeks Raw.
You might well have a point there to be fair. I am really excited to see Rollins as a heel, he is such a quality worker
JR Stating Wyatt should go over is essence him stating he needs the win, did he get it? no! Did he need it? Yes! I've been saying this all along!
Another article here from Bleacher Report!
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-wyatt-results-winner-and-post-match-reaction
basically to summarize the bleacher report article:
"After trading wins at WrestleMania XXX and Extreme Rules,John Cena and Bray Wyatt engaged in a rubber match Sunday night at Payback. Ultimately, it was Cena who came out on top in a Last Man Standing match.
Rowan and Harper interfered, but Cena was still able to overcome the odds with the help of the Usos.
As good as Wyatt's gimmick and overall presence are, though, it will be interesting to see how he responds to the result at Payback. Most seemingly expected and wanted Wyatt to win this feud against Cena, but he is currently very much on the losing side.
Wyatt has gotten the upper hand on Cena several times, including the win at Extreme Rules. He has also gotten into Cena's head at various points, such as when he used the children's choir to serenade the leader of the Cenation.
With that said, Cena has looked far stronger. Not only has he won two pay-per-view matches over Wyatt, but he has also beaten Luke Harper and Erick Rowan on multiple occasions. He even beat all three Wyatt Family members in a three-on-one handicap match several weeks ago.
In addition to that, it can be argued that Wyatt's win at Extreme Rules was essentially inconsequential. Cena was prevented from winning by Harper and Rowan on numerous occasions in that steel cage match and it took interference from a possessed child for Wyatt to go over.
Cena once again overcame the odds at Payback as he so often has in the past, so this feud now has a familiar look to it. Whether it is Cena's fault or not, the perception is that he has halted the progress of up-and-coming stars on several occasions.
After Wyatt's loss at Payback, it is entirely possible that he will join that long list. Wyatt is talented enough to rebound, but he has lost a great deal of credibility since he hasn't really been made to look like Cena's equal at any point since the buildup to WrestleMania.
There doesn't seem to be a viable endgame for this feud that will satisfy everyone aside from a Cena heel turn, but that simply isn't a realistic possibility at this point. If this angle continues, then it is tough to predict where they go from here.
The pay-per-view calendar itself may be WWE's best friend since it could allow the writers to slowly but surely end the feud without actually reaching a proper conclusion. Since Money in the Bank is a few weeks away, both Cena and Wyatt could be placed in the Money in the Bank ladder match.
Even though Wyatt hasn't been booked particularly well throughout his feud with Cena, much of that could be forgotten if he wins Money in the Bank. Wyatt is definitely among the top contenders to do so, and that could be extremely helpful in terms of transitioning Wyatt to his next angle.
Cena has feuded with almost everyone on the roster at this point, so finding something new and fresh for him to do is a bit more challenging. His feud with Wyatt has gone from exciting to stale, though, so it is time to move on in the near future.
Although Cena didn't need to win at Payback, the victory figures to give him some momentum as he prepares for the next chapter in his career."
The parts in bold I have already stated on a number of occasions here pretty much... When you bullet point the feud for me it is a burial by Cena of another up and coming talent....I've given previous examples (Barrett, Ziggler, ADR etc)... As the article above states though he has the talent (Wyatt), no doubt to rebound in the future and go onto better things down the line...
I cannot make it any clearer than this post! If people fail to see it / disagree or whatever then fine...so be it! Entitled to your opinion and thats all this article is again, an opinion, albeit its a correct one for me!
Ps: I've just seen your updated post re: me saying he's buried Bray and jumping to buried everyone... I am using past stars as examples where he has buried them. Hence I'm going from past to present when its necessary.
Also your question on the video I posted: while they didnt use the exact term "Buried"...they did say terms like
- "Throwing it away for no reason",(no sell, politics? afraid or refusing to lose top spot to up and comers?)
- "refused to see it our way", (politics)
- " he wanted to be ddt'd on the concrete outside, jump up and eliminate two members of Team Nexus, which is the stupidest thing to do" (more no selling, super man ??)
- "I especially feel they should of gone over (nexus), "we we're fighting for Barrett to go over, I agree" , "and in all fairness where is Wade Barrett now"
Make of that what you will...have listen later anyways
JR Stating Wyatt should go over is essence him stating he needs the win, did he get it? no! Did he need it? Yes! I've been saying this all along!
Another article here from Bleacher Report!
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-wyatt-results-winner-and-post-match-reaction
basically to summarize the bleacher report article:
"After trading wins at WrestleMania XXX and Extreme Rules,John Cena and Bray Wyatt engaged in a rubber match Sunday night at Payback. Ultimately, it was Cena who came out on top in a Last Man Standing match.
Rowan and Harper interfered, but Cena was still able to overcome the odds with the help of the Usos.
As good as Wyatt's gimmick and overall presence are, though, it will be interesting to see how he responds to the result at Payback. Most seemingly expected and wanted Wyatt to win this feud against Cena, but he is currently very much on the losing side.
Wyatt has gotten the upper hand on Cena several times, including the win at Extreme Rules. He has also gotten into Cena's head at various points, such as when he used the children's choir to serenade the leader of the Cenation.
With that said, Cena has looked far stronger. Not only has he won two pay-per-view matches over Wyatt, but he has also beaten Luke Harper and Erick Rowan on multiple occasions. He even beat all three Wyatt Family members in a three-on-one handicap match several weeks ago.
In addition to that, it can be argued that Wyatt's win at Extreme Rules was essentially inconsequential. Cena was prevented from winning by Harper and Rowan on numerous occasions in that steel cage match and it took interference from a possessed child for Wyatt to go over.
Cena once again overcame the odds at Payback as he so often has in the past, so this feud now has a familiar look to it. Whether it is Cena's fault or not, the perception is that he has halted the progress of up-and-coming stars on several occasions.
After Wyatt's loss at Payback, it is entirely possible that he will join that long list. Wyatt is talented enough to rebound, but he has lost a great deal of credibility since he hasn't really been made to look like Cena's equal at any point since the buildup to WrestleMania.
There doesn't seem to be a viable endgame for this feud that will satisfy everyone aside from a Cena heel turn, but that simply isn't a realistic possibility at this point. If this angle continues, then it is tough to predict where they go from here.
The pay-per-view calendar itself may be WWE's best friend since it could allow the writers to slowly but surely end the feud without actually reaching a proper conclusion. Since Money in the Bank is a few weeks away, both Cena and Wyatt could be placed in the Money in the Bank ladder match.
Even though Wyatt hasn't been booked particularly well throughout his feud with Cena, much of that could be forgotten if he wins Money in the Bank. Wyatt is definitely among the top contenders to do so, and that could be extremely helpful in terms of transitioning Wyatt to his next angle.
Cena has feuded with almost everyone on the roster at this point, so finding something new and fresh for him to do is a bit more challenging. His feud with Wyatt has gone from exciting to stale, though, so it is time to move on in the near future.
Although Cena didn't need to win at Payback, the victory figures to give him some momentum as he prepares for the next chapter in his career."
The parts in bold I have already stated on a number of occasions here pretty much... When you bullet point the feud for me it is a burial by Cena of another up and coming talent....I've given previous examples (Barrett, Ziggler, ADR etc)... As the article above states though he has the talent (Wyatt), no doubt to rebound in the future and go onto better things down the line...
I cannot make it any clearer than this post! If people fail to see it / disagree or whatever then fine...so be it! Entitled to your opinion and thats all this article is again, an opinion, albeit its a correct one for me!
Ps: I've just seen your updated post re: me saying he's buried Bray and jumping to buried everyone... I am using past stars as examples where he has buried them. Hence I'm going from past to present when its necessary.
Also your question on the video I posted: while they didnt use the exact term "Buried"...they did say terms like "Throwing it away for no reason",(no sell) "refused to see it our way", (politics) " he wanted to be ddt'd on the concrete outside, jump up and eliminate two members of Team Nexus, which is the stupidest thing to do" (more no selling, super man ??) "I especially feel they should of gone over (nexus), "we we're fighting for Barrett to go over, I agree" , "and in all fairness where is Wade Barrett now"
Make of that what you will...have listen later anyways
So basically they never said they buried him. They stated something that's nowhere close to burial, and you've tried to tell me to believe them both that Cena buried him, when that's not what they said.
Can you not see how your hate is making you ramble about Cena? You've sat here staunchly saying that you believe two legends when they say Cena buried Barrett, only they never actually said that. You're just desperate for it to be true.
I'm not even a Cena fan, I'm just objective.
@Cantonarightboot without getting overly involved in things again, posting bleacher report articles is as pointless as our opinions. Its just some bloke on the internet.
On another note, @Cina is ok by me now, he just buried some newbie.
On another note, @Cina is ok by me now, he just buried some newbie.
I do take them with aping of salt, I said it was just another guys opinion..albeit one I happen to agree with because it raises some fair points!
For every BR like this there are plenty to counter it I am aware of that...
Throwing it away for no reason? That's a burial!! Rather than putting over a new talent WWE / Vinnie Mac / Cena whomever made the call to put the winner of the feud as Cena and push these guys back to where they belong!
Think of the WCW / ECW angle... Didn't they (WWE Booking) throw that away? Didn't they bury numerous guys who came over? Booker? DDP (mentioned earlier) Malenko? Saturn? RVD? The only two who came over from WCW / ECW who we're pushed we're Eddie and Benoit! Everyone else was buried!!
Nexus was much the same, if you believe WWE buried the Invasion angle but not the Nexus one I'd say it is very contradictory!! Both we're the same thing... New talent being made to look ridiculous / job to the top guys and then after a good amount of abuse dropped like a bad habit!
No it's not. It's been explained to you what a burial is. The star of the company winning a match is not a burial. Bad booking is not burial. Losing 3 matches in a row before then winning one is not a burial. Being on TV constantly and in programmes is not a burial. It's the exact opposite of a burial.
Getting the result of a match wrong is not a burial. They run story lines that span months or years. The outcome of one match is in the long run irrelevant.
You are massively overreacting.
well, where is the evolution going? They can have the feud going a bit without breaking up the shield? I would love if Rollins was a triple cross as a Plan c to outfox Triple H. That would be the final nail. In fact Shield has more crowd pull than Evolution. Evo can have a break and can fight singles, but Shield needs to be together. The heel was a great cliffhanger, but they need a ace in the hole now.
Yeah, Cantona's right boot doesn't seem to grasp that it's perfectly possible for somebody to lose a feud or a match and come out well. Remember Punk/Cena before WM 29? Great match, Cena won, but Punk came out looking great.
I think it's more of a question of where The Shield are going. There's noone really credible enough for them to go through. Evolution can't stick around, they've already done the Wyatts who are currently in a good programme with Cena, there's nothing left for them. Add to that Reigns getting a huge push soon and it's better IMO for them to split.
Rollins ended up being the third wheel of the group so to speak although why I have no idea since I think that's Ambrose (sorry BR) but it went to Rollins doing huge spots each week to get himself back onto level pegging which he did. I think Reigns will do just fine on his own, Ambrose should do because he has a little following even though I don't get it, and Rollins could suffer the same predicament as Sandow and Ziggler in that they can clearly work but they don't have the 'it' factor that makes them huge stars, him getting the rub from his time with Evolution might just give him that platform so he doesn't become the one that's lost in the shuffle. Which will be Ambrose. Because he's shit. Sorry BR. I'm not sorry. Titty sprinkles.
Google the term Burial:
"Burial/Bury
The worked lowering (relegation) of a popular wrestler's status in the eyes of the fans. It is the act of a promoter or booker causing a wrestler to lose popularity by forcing him to lose in squash matches, continuously, and/or participate in unentertaining or degrading storylines. It can be a form of punishment for real-life backstage disagreements orfeuds between the wrestler and the booker, the wrestler falling out of favor with the company, or the wrestler receiving an unpopular gimmick that causes him to lose credibility regardless of win-loss record."
That first line alone sums it up. Cena has already showed himself to be "stronger" than Wyatt throughout their feud and Bray looks weak (in ring). If it wasn't for Bray's mic work this would be utterly shambolic!! Cena has won 2 PPV's and his 1 loss is very iffy, ridiculous amount of interference from Harper & Rowan and then little Johnny for the assist
Not forgetting Super Cena holding his own against All 3 of them recently as well on Raw I think it was!! If JR is stating Bray should of won then thats what should of happened as far as I'm concerned!
I stated above twice (once with Barrett & the other with Bray) that they can bounce back after loses in matches / feuds...but look how long it has taken Barrett to find something that works for him after Nexus failing! Bray has the talent (again I am stating it) to be a top player, but losing to Cena (and loses do matter) doesn't help him here....
I'm done with this debate because we're coming at it from different angles clearly and we're not going to agree on it...
So let me get this straight, because I must have missed something.
@Cantonarightboot is telling me that Cena buried Ziggler, the same Ziggler that had one PPV main event with Cena and went over clean as a whistle?
Oh and also the WWE buried RVD, a man who they pushed WELL above his station?
Anyway, anything other than a Shield split now would be horrific. The magic would be gone. Name one faction where they've changed members, done triple crosses or whatever and it's worked. It doesn't work. Hell just look over at the Bullet Club in New Japan now for how quickly a great faction can turn to shit, Devitt left to be replaced by AJ Styles and it just isn't the same.
Also, @Zarlak just look at what Regal said to FSM about Ambrose. The guy has massive fans at the very highest level of the industry, that says everything that needs to be known about him.
@Cantonarightboot is telling me that Cena buried Ziggler, the same Ziggler that had one PPV main event with Cena and went over clean as a whistle?
Oh and also the WWE buried RVD, a man who they pushed WELL above his station?
Anyway, anything other than a Shield split now would be horrific. The magic would be gone. Name one faction where they've changed members, done triple crosses or whatever and it's worked. It doesn't work. Hell just look over at the Bullet Club in New Japan now for how quickly a great faction can turn to shit, Devitt left to be replaced by AJ Styles and it just isn't the same.
Also, @Zarlak just look at what Regal said to FSM about Ambrose. The guy has massive fans at the very highest level of the industry, that says everything that needs to be known about him.
WRONG!
AJ tipped the ladder over for Ziggler to win the Briefcase! Is that a clean win???????
Who came out on top in that feud by the end of it? Cena!
Throughout 2012-13 Cena beat Ziggler on a weekly basis nearly, the match was rammed down our throats and Cena, sorry Super Cena triumphed every single time pretty much!! The exception was the Ladder match!!
Cena had him stand in the ring and literally dropped shit on him, Literally!
Aside from that, in ring Cena no sold everything Zig hit him with... I think in one match on Raw he hit Cena with 3 finishing moves, Big E interfered and Cena jumped up out of the blue and hit the AA... One AA and that was it!
Yeah so that same Ziggler!!
Lads your in denial here and burying yourselves... 3:30 of complete BURIAL!! Complete No Sell!!
In 3 mins he is hit with a zig zag, top rope DDT, Langston interferes and don't you know it....
Cena over comes all odds!!!
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Yeah, that is a clean victory in a ladder match.
Dropping stuff on guys is a common thing, it does no harm to anyone at all. In fact, that match had been going 20+ minutes before the AJ incident. That raised Ziggler up to Cena's level, not a burial.
Same can be said of Bray Wyatt, he's had 3 matches with Cena and by and large been shown to be close to an equal, WHICH IS PUSHING SOMEONE.
You have no idea how to use the term, any loss to Cena is far from a burial, especially if it's a 20+ minute match FFS. If you lose to fecking Zack Ryder in around a minute it's a completely different story.
I do wonder how people would take to Super Austin now.
I'm just going to stop engaging Cantona now. The fact that he's the only one here who believes his way of thinking says it all.
Re the second part, yeah I know he's got the following, I've just never been a fan of his. I don't see it in his in ring performance, I don't really see it in his promos. To me he just tries to act edgy and crazy but doesn't ever seem like it. It just looks to me like he's trying too hard. Maybe he will win me over one day. Maybe he won't. He won't care either way he's still earnt more money than I ever will in my lifetime.
That is not a clean victory ffs!!!
"Clean finish
A match ending without cheating or outside interference, usually in the center of the ring. (Compare "screwjob")
Your wrong on your post so just admit it!
If it was Zig v Cena without AJ getting involved and costing Cena the match (she pushed him from the top of the ladder) then it would have been a clean finish. It wasn't...fact!
Where did he cheat?
I'm fully aware how the match went down, and it more than elevated Dolph.
In a no dq match would outside interference negate a clean win? Not in my eyes, same goes for ladder match.
exactly.
Common sense, if there's no disqualifications it would take some going for a screwy finish, basically a ref refusing to count is about it.
DO NOT compare me to him.
Dean "Titty Master" Ambrose is going to have Zarlak in here down the line jizzing about how good he is.
He's toned it down a bit since his indie days.
You know who else brought a different perspective to the table? Hitler.
Some of that indie stuff was fantastic though!
In my eyes yes, if the face was put in say a 2v1 or 3v1 situation then its outside interference. For me any 3rd party being involved would deem it a dirty win regardless of match rules.
Since the AE, I appreciate its near impossible to get clean wins these days however.
In my eyes Cena has only ever once or twice lost clean off the top of my head (since his super man days started) and that was to The Rock at WM 28! That of course has been leveled out now with WM 29 where Cena won. Bryan at Summer slam, but sure that was more down to the fact he was injured and had to take time off...so actually I take that back!
Look, Cena is a by product of his character and the era he is in now. Similar to Hogan he is the super hero kids looks up to in the product, until that changes he will continue to go over whomever he faces. Ultimately of course Vinnie Mac is number one in the decision make still, although some responsability has gone to trips lately... I'm sure Cena has a lot of input, awful lot in his feuds and how it plays out so he is in part a lot to blame as well for stars he faces being kept back...
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Summerslam vs Bryan?