Personally I think its a bit ridiculous cutting out all these moves, if it keeps up we will be left with little to no move set for wrestlers... I get that Accidents happen, they always will... so I don't buy into this logic moves should be banned, unless they are proven to be highly dangerous!
Television Tho Prop Grops Throps
- Thread starter Big-Red
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Kane and Undertaker (though obviously just the once a year, heh), but theirs are tombstones and are far safer than the seated piledriver which Punk used. He must have had special permission but it's amazing that they'd let him do it on Cena of all people.
In which case they are when it comes to the Bryan case. Harley Race has gone on record saying he wished he never invented the diving headbutt.
Yeah that match was awesome. It's nice when they shake things up a bit, even if they weren't allowed to do it.
I get that some moves are dangerous, its more so the mentality of these guys...the feel the must risk their health and well being to satisfy the crowd... there is no real need to carry out these high risk moves on a match by match basis, if they we're a bit smarter about it they'd be ok...
Besides the flying headbutt cant be any more dangerous than say a footballer continually heading a football that travels at probably an average speed of 60-70mph from crosses!!
Just sucks seeing the product being diluted down with each year...
They weren't cleared, very widely reported at the time how livid Vince was and that they both got massive fines.
Tombstone is the only move cleared, and yeah, Kane and Taker are the only ones then (without special permissions a la HHH)
But you get moves like the piledriver, which is incredibly dangerous, of course they should be banned. These guys are there to entertain yeah, but at what cost? Just look at half of the shit that happens on the indies, these guys are their own worst enemies at times, hell look at the opening to Colt's latest film and Gallows working through an injury which has been known to kill guys, is it worth it? The WWE do it for their benefit.
As for the stuff on the previous page, at the time I loved the Attitude Era, but that was in a period of ignorance. I struggle to watch a Raw from that time even now that we know better, the number of chairshots in particular make me feel nauseous on occasions. That's not to say there's not a place for that stuff, but it has to be VERY rare, for the good of the workers as much as to make sure it means something.
I heard Bryan on Steve Austins podcast recently and Stone Cold told him to cut out the missile drop kick from the top rope, that was the move he thought was the worst on the body.
Its just a straight back bump time and time again from height. The dive to the outside is relatively safe once the other guy does his job.
A ball is light, and bounces off you, the shoulder of a 250-350 pound man lying prone on the mat, not so much.
Shocking that Cena broke the rules like that.
Then again, didn't he break the blading rules recently enough?
Aye, if the other guy does his job, as often as not, Bryan has just dived out of the ring while the guy supporting him shies away, leaving him to mostly plough straight into the barrier. It'd at least be better if he chose the side with no wall to smash off.
Little wonder his neck is damaged really.
Yeah I agree with most of that, that's what I meant when I said its their mentality that is their worst enemy! Trust me I don't want to see a Drozdov / Dynamite Kid situation here, nor a Benoit outcome! I think there is a happy medium here, I suggested the PPV's should be used to up the ante a bit... I never understood why they do so many house shows, a company of WWE's size now really doesn't need to be doing as many house shows as they do... If they cut down on these house shows then it cuts down on the performances for each guy and in turn less physical abuse on their bodies! I've lost count how many times recently I've read about guys getting injured on this half arsed house shows, puts them out of performing for months on occasion. Quality of quantity here I'm thinking... Push things a bit more on the televised shows (now and again) and more importantly the PPV's!!
I remember seeing a documentary few years back on BBC think it was, done tests on a number of forwards and defenders who regularly head the ball and there was signs of damage, not significant per say but it still caused head trauma... I'd argue as well Bryan's head doesn't make full contact, I've noticed on a number of occasions he lands beside them and his head glances off their arm and making minimal contact...
I'm sure I read somewhere that there's a slight whiplash when doing that move from the top rope and therefore doing it hundreds of time causes real strain to the neck.
Wrestlers and fans alike recognise house shows as being far more fun than the TV broadcasts. There's always a lot more action and fan participation with less breaks during the show. Maybe cutting down a bit would do them good (given the extremely strenuous WWE schedule), but those shows are for the most part the reason the pros do what they do, it's what they love and it's why they got into it.
I'm sure he does it as carefully as possible, but there's no way it's near safe.
Great entertainment though!! Classic!!
As good as anything you'd ever get on TV at the time. Classic memories indeed.
This too.
You just can't fathom the noise inside that place. Must've been absolutely bloody incredible to be The Rock or Austin around that time and just hearing the huge roar when you enter the arena. Atmosphere's that even football games can't rival.
I was a huge WWF and WCW fan back in the day but it was never about the wrestling, was always about the characters, stories and then the fans reactions to it. Huge pops are incredible to behold.
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Imagine Michael Cole on commentary instead of JR. fecking hell.
Poor Michael Cole, he's a fine commentator. Genuinely have huge respect for the guy. King is the biggest failure of a commentator right now. JR is quite possibly the best ever, anyone will look piss poor in comparison.
Cole's mediocre, he'd be fine enough if he knew the moves though.
King is living on past glories, and has admitted he's just there collecting a cheque.
JR boggles the mind, unless his condition affects his capability of touring, but I doubt it as they always fecked him about.
King is living on past glories, and has admitted he's just there collecting a cheque.
JR boggles the mind, unless his condition affects his capability of touring, but I doubt it as they always fecked him about.
They fired him after Ric Flair was stupid drunk on a panel while promoting WWE2K14. Why they blamed him I don't know.
Austin was a great wrestler...His move set was reduced due to that neck injury...
Even with such limitations, how many incredible matches did he put on? On both PPV and TV
Amazing matches with Dude Love, Taker, The Rock, HHH, Jericho, Angle, Benoit....
And thats after his neck injury...In 1997, he put on some of the best matches ever with Bret Hart, Shawn at KOTR, his match with Owen Hart was going brilliantly until the piledriver.
Austin got away with it because he could take even the worst wrestler and make a good match out of it
That's what I mean, boggles the mind, especially as they've had Flair show up drunk since, and just popped him right out live on Raw...
Fantastic.
The reactions from commentators and fans are brilliant, wish they'd let this stuff happen more often it certain matches, it makes it feel so much more important.
I'm pretty sure at this point that Vince legitimately hates him. He'd be a great asset either on commentary or working with talent, realistically he should be there.
Flair
EDIT: Vintage 'OOOOOOHHHHHHH' crowd reaction. Perfect. I remember being pissed up in my mates watching it and we all sort of went
holy shit did that just happen?!
Fantastic.
The reactions from commentators and fans are brilliant, wish they'd let this stuff happen more often it certain matches, it makes it feel so much more important.
Thats what I've been saying
If one single Piledriver gets a reaction like this imagine the atmosphere and hype if they upped the ante some more...Man I hate this PG era bullshit!!!!!!!!!!
To touch on the above as well re: Cole... the guy is awful on commentary compared to JR!!
JR will always be the best play by play man in the business, he'd make a snail race must see TV!!! My major gripe with Cole is he doesnt know a single wrestling moves name, Finishers aside! That's why there are so many silence in matches with the guy!! JR knows every hold there is, inside and out and back to front!!
King was the perfect yin to JR's Yang! The balance was perfect...
JR will always be the best play by play man in the business, he'd make a snail race must see TV!!! My major gripe with Cole is he doesnt know a single wrestling moves name, Finishers aside! That's why there are so many silence in matches with the guy!! JR knows every hold there is, inside and out and back to front!!
King was the perfect yin to JR's Yang! The balance was perfect...
I know he had a neck injury after Owen Hart botched a piledriver. My point (if you read my earlier post) was that you can have lots of classic matches without any technical masterpieces if the booking is done correctly
I thought he was really drunk a few weeks back when he interrupted a Shield/Evolution segment a few weeks back. I half expected him to either throw up or pass out. He slurred throughout the promo.
I posted a link a few pages back of the leaked episode of this weeks Smackdown. It´s unedited, and you can hear Cole´s conversations with Vince. Vince is micro managing to the extreme, basically emasculates him, Cole complains about being told to repeat the same thing over and over, he gets told to shut up and say it again, and Cole just sits there and takes it like a bitch. He also has a writer yell at him for saying "made out" instead of "kissed." I feel sorry for him. He´s not being allowed to commentate, he´s being told exactly what to say.
To be fair, I think they both had fault in that, each thinking it was a different kind of piledriver to be done.
Oddly enough, IIRC, years before it, Stone Cold broke someone elses neck, doing a near identical piledriver.
Exactly the one I was thinking of.
Ahhh, that's a damn shame then......
I don't understand why Vince believes extreme micromanagement provides the best quality. I don't see why he can't interject with some 'important' stuff but otherwise let them get on with it. It'd be a more natural show.
Austin was a superb in ring wrestler, if there is ever any doubt in that just watch the two matches with Bret Hart, that's all you need to remember how good he was. On tge subject of commentators, Jerry Lawler has earned the right in my eyes to just pick up a cheque, A genuine legend, a great heel in WWF but his best work was in Memphis. One of the few genuine nice guys of the old territory days.
I don't think two matches with Bret Hart is a good yard stick with which you measure greatness, Hart could probably make me look great in the ring.
Austin was very good, consistant and knew how to work a crowd better than maybe anyone, he was the complete package.
Not a yard stick, a reminder
His matches with Hart were some of the best in his career.
Now I think Austin is one of the greatest ever don't get me wrong but from 97-03 he could barely go wrong given the talent he was working with. He was never really below main event level so in that time he faced the two Hart's, Triple H, HBK, Taker, Rock, Foley, Angle, Kane, Bulldog, Flair, Benoit, Jericho, RVD, Booker T...a plethora of talented guys. I think if you look at his PPV matches from WM14 onwards, it was only maybe McMahon and Rikishi he faced on PPV that I haven't named above and would not be considered good workers. It's an alignment of stars that put the right man in the right place at the right time with the right supporting cast.
You're forgetting his early days with the company, noteably his tim as 'The Ringmaster' where he would draw top matches with wrestlers such as Savio Vega and Marc Mero
What?! Rikishi was a fine worker.
His match with Stone Cold was utter junk though, IIRC it was just 20-30 minutes of him sitting on the ground while getting stomped.
Fantastic.
The reactions from commentators and fans are brilliant, wish they'd let this stuff happen more often it certain matches, it makes it feel so much more important.
The more they do it the less important it feels, just look at the reaction now whenever someone calls another a "son of a bitch" or a the like, and in the opposite direction the now lack of reaction to say, a hell in a cell match.
As for the commentary, I feel so sorry for Michael Cole, he's got Jerry Lawler being horrendous next to him, and JBL just trying to entertain himself, he's basically got to do it all himself, which isn't easy for someone who isn't particularly a "wrestling guy". That and Kevin Dunn constantly being in his ear can not be easy, never mind the fact the guy is a machine when it comes to facts and stats. He's got so much going on it's unreal.
Anyone who thinks Cole is bad is in for a right treat if anyone bar Regal, Renee or Phillips get moved up from the NXT announce desk, those lot are awful. Special hat tip to Jason Albert who may be the single worst commentator in pro-wrestling history.
Ibushi, Sami Zayn, Bryan, Cesaro, Seth Rollins and possibly Kenta would make for a lot of pretty wonderful wrestling.
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