Hogan could go, sure he was in NJPW. The American style restricts a lot of performers.
Television Tho Prop Grops Throps
- Thread starter Big-Red
- Start date
I know the likes of Bret Hart, Curt Hennig, Flair etc shit all over Cena in the ring technician/general stakes. My point is that it's a myth that Cena can't have great matches. You can have great matches without being a good technician. Eg Rocky and Hogan have lots of great matches in the resumes without being the greatest wrestlers. Wrestling is not only about executing a perfect suplex, full nelson etc. It's also about storytelling and creating magical moments that live long into history. For example Hogan v Andre was not a great match but it is still talked about today. Just as people will talk about Rocky v Cena for years even though the matches were terrible.
so what if he was in NJPW! They have had plenty of awful wrestlers... its a known fact and has been stated by many other wrestlers in the business that Hogan was an extremely poor wrestler, he was very awkward and was not blessed with technical ability!
I think I recall a clip from a WWE documentary where Hogan himself stated he was a very poor wrestler, he was awkward and found it hard to be technically sound in the round, be it bouncing of the ropes, learning how to bump or selling...
Can you tell me a genuinely Great match Hogan had? and I mean that involved some nice wrestling, not just head locks or arm bars or bear hugs... Hogan killed time better than any other wrestler with these 3 simple, basic holds!!
Hogan vs Shawn Micheals. Think it was at summerslam. Was awesome.
For a body slam!! Which is kind of sad really... also WM 3 is still talked about because of the size of the crowd, the two largest athletes (and most popular) at the time facing off....
You are aware of the back story to that match yeah?
Michaels played Hogan and made a mockery of that match, he over sold everything and turned it into a mickey mouse show!!
Michaels didn't want to lose to Hogan because he considers him an over bearing political playing asshole in short... i am aware michaels did much the same, but regardless... their match will go down as one of the funnier moments in WWE history!
Decent match, entertaining sure... but great?
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I thought it was because Hogan was suppose to put him over later but refused?
Yup, waa great. Loved Michaels taking the piss. One of my fav matches.
Yup, waa great. Loved Michaels taking the piss. One of my fav matches.
Fair enough!
Suppose if your not a hogan fan in that sense it was great! All kinds of rumors online about it, whatever the finer details we're Michaels clearly not happy about putting him over!!
Michaels and his friends were also overbearing political assholes too. His gripe was that Hogan had refused to put him over in a rematch. Michaels had met his match in backstage politics and became precious about it. That said the match was fun, even the build up.
Fair enough!
All kinds of rumors online about it, whatever the finer details we're Michaels clearly not happy about putting him over!!
Hogan getting madder and madder through out the fight made the match for me. Couldnt believe what HBK was doing.Yep I agree and stated above that Michaels too was an asshole for playing politics... In fairness though to Michaels he was possibly WWE's greatest in ring performer ever.... If you put it to any of the posters on here as to what exactly his greatest match was you'd see one helluva long list! Plenty of great matches to choose from! Hogan just played politics, was pretty shite in ring, his character sucked pretty much and his mic work sucked as well Brother!!!
Hogan defo won the political war here though...
the key to a successful wrestling promotion is capturing the young fans then retaining their interest. Hogan slamming Andre got the attention of 5y.o-10y.o fanbase. Those young fans got their parents to buy millions worth of wwf merchandise and grew up to be loyal fans who have introduced their kids to the product. Steamboat vs Savage probably caught the attention of the hardcore adult fanbase but no 8y.o cares about 2 normal sized men rolling in the ring. If you pick a random kid they won't remember Jericho vPunk but they'll remember Cena v Rocky. Their wrestling hero beating the guy they see kicking ass in action movies.
when I was kid I loved Hogan, Warrior, Savage and even Lex Luger around the time he slammed Yokozuna. If you ask me now my favourites are Eddie, Bret Hart, HBK, Benoit, Jericho. But these are ordinary looking but athletic guys. They are great workers but they are not the reason WWE is a global promotion today. I think HHH is one of the best technicians but his reputation behind the scenes and on the internet makes people overlook him a lot in these conversations.
The best times for the business was the attitude era... they we're selling out events months in advance and people couldn't get enough between 98-2002.. they for me are the greatest years ever in the business... The WWE looked at their demographics and focused on 15-30 year old males... that was the key market they attacked and boy did it work!
It wasn't about pandering to children, like they are doing now... realistically it comes down to the parents and what they allow their kids to watch I suppose, I was watching wrestling from a young age and remember WM3 vaguely...the Savage v Steamboat match, actually I remember it more so than the Hogan v Andre match... the slam of course stuck with me! I suppose the one time I bought into the larger than life characters and the "super hero" type mentality of WWE was when Ultimate Warrior broke onto the scene in 88... that IC Win over Honky Tonk Man and then of course in 90 against Hogan! I was a huge fan of Warrior and that was probably the one super hero type character I really bought into!
I think WWE is stuck in a very awkward position now, they are on the stock market now and are trapped to a degree on the content they put out... Vince has trapped himself very much...There will never be another AE sadly, nor a ruthless aggression era even.... I mean think about it... only last month we we're fed a PPV called "Extreme Rules"...the commentators dropped the word Extreme literally every 60 seconds, yet we got feck all that was extreme about it!!!! The highlight being Rollins stage dive!! Some ridiculously lame cage match with next to no use of the cage itself!! Decent PPV but come on like... there was nothing extreme about it at all... dumbass commentators trying to force us to believe Cena is extreme! FML!! WWE are very much stuck between a rock and a hard place going forward... we will never see chair shots to the head again, bleeding / blading... nor will we get proper gimmick matches that really up the ante... its all diluted down to appease kids, eventually parents will probably not switch the channel to put the weekly shows on....
The "no chair shots to the head" rule wasn't put in place for children. It was put in place because of the danger it posed to the wrestlers.
I personally don't enjoy hardcore wrestling too much. There have been good examples of it in the past (Foley vs. Orton, to name one), but as far as I'm concerned I'd much rather watch a good athletic contest than one where the aim is to hit your opponent with an object, or throw him through one. So I can't say I miss the Attitude Era's days of brawling and weapon-using, and would much rather see the newer breed of more technical wrestler like Bryan, Cesaro, Zayn, and Neville etc.
I personally don't enjoy hardcore wrestling too much. There have been good examples of it in the past (Foley vs. Orton, to name one), but as far as I'm concerned I'd much rather watch a good athletic contest than one where the aim is to hit your opponent with an object, or throw him through one. So I can't say I miss the Attitude Era's days of brawling and weapon-using, and would much rather see the newer breed of more technical wrestler like Bryan, Cesaro, Zayn, and Neville etc.
First bit I am aware it is primarily down to the Benoit incident, he suffered from brain trauma, years or chair shots and his diving head butt cause huge damage to his brain, throw in some steroids and you get a very sad ending that Benoit came to...
I still think the occasional chair shot to the head or use of weapons should be used... Gimmick matches are part and parcel of wrestling, they've always been there...right back to the circus days in the 20s-40s and include different weapons... been all kinds of gimmicks through out the decades. Wrestling by its definition and nature is violent, I personally think feuds need it... you need gimmicks added to make fans more interested... For example, look at The Shield vs Evolution... last month it was a standard 3v3..now we're getting it with no holds barred! They couldn't put out another 3v3 in ring one fall count match... To make viewers buy into the matches more they have to include weapons / gimmicks!
If they are going to put on shows called Extreme Rules / Hell in A Cell / Elimination Chamber then fine... lets up the ante there in those matches, It doesn't need to be on every single RAW on a weekly basis like it was back then... I think what WWE should do is make the PPV's edgier... give them a 14 rating and bring a bit more aggression to the product! In fairness how are kids buying PPVS...they're not lol its the adults buying the PPVS! So why are we the adults fed childish, superman crap!
Holy crap how have I never seen that before
It's like Micheals enabled the ragdoll cheat on saints row
You trying to steal my top 50 idea?I heard about Joey Styles doing that alright, thought it was a joke at first
Seems everyone on here has strong opinions on who was / is the greatest of all time in WWE/F... Thinking of running a vote to see for all the WWE fans on here to gauge who is considered to be the greatest of all time!
Working on a format and I can create a seperate thread withn the Entertainment section...
You trying to steal my top 50 idea?
I was thinking of it!
You can sue me for copyright I guess!
It's my identity!!!!
To be fair I could easily make a list of 20 wrestlers to put towards a top 50. Not sure how many you'd get involved though.
To be fair I could easily make a list of 20 wrestlers to put towards a top 50. Not sure how many you'd get involved though.
It's my identity!!!!
To be fair I could easily make a list of 20 wrestlers to put towards a top 50. Not sure how many you'd get involved though.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery? does that help ease your pain?
I know, I'm trying to get an idea how many people actually post on the WWE Thread here. Surprised so far with the input, been good!
I guess it all depends on the your taste/age group but I was one of the people who loved watching WWE during the Attitude era.
I started with WWE/f during Yokozuna v/s Bret Hart days and though I liked watching the show but I really got addicted to it during the Attitude era (Austin/Rock/DX/Undertaker with his ministry of darkness/Vince being revealed as "greater power" or something similar). I guess some of the timelines may have been blurred/overlapping but hey it was a long time ago and I still remember being so absorbed in the storyline that I remember bits and pieces of it even to this day and still consider "those days" to be so much better than what shite we have today.
To me WWE is not about technical wrestling. It's about entertainment and I'm not getting the kind of "entertainment" I expect from it these days.
I started with WWE/f during Yokozuna v/s Bret Hart days and though I liked watching the show but I really got addicted to it during the Attitude era (Austin/Rock/DX/Undertaker with his ministry of darkness/Vince being revealed as "greater power" or something similar). I guess some of the timelines may have been blurred/overlapping but hey it was a long time ago and I still remember being so absorbed in the storyline that I remember bits and pieces of it even to this day and still consider "those days" to be so much better than what shite we have today.
To me WWE is not about technical wrestling. It's about entertainment and I'm not getting the kind of "entertainment" I expect from it these days.
I think Heyman is an incredible visionary, McMahon just robbed his idea completely and had the money to make it bigger than Heyman!! Heymans ECW mixed the crazy story lines, the soap opera with violence...AND...Technical wrestling!! He gave lucha libre and the hard knock japanese style its chance to shine in the US!! Til then it was only heard of pretty much, he gave Mysterio, Guerror and Psycosis their big breaks in US, took Scorpio and Benoit and Jericho and infused it into the gimmick riddled violence.... WWE done it to a degree as well... but always fizzled out... for a company the size of WWE there is no reason why they cant have it all..
Your spot on though, anyone saying this generation of "technical wrestlers" are far more enjoyable...I was plead with them to go watch some of the Benoit v Angle matches or Jericho v Michaels... The matches they had at the time when it was more gimmick riddled we're technical masterpieces!
In the WWE alone, I'm struggling to think of top quality technical wrestlers. Even Daniel Bryan has dialled it back(especially since becoming main event) to a relatively regular pattern, albeit flawlessly executed.
Orton is excellent, but not really what I'd call a technician. Ziggler's quite tidy, though I hate his ridiculous overselling.
Orton is excellent, but not really what I'd call a technician. Ziggler's quite tidy, though I hate his ridiculous overselling.
I think you have to dial it back a bit, if you want to be the number on guy. Performing all those moves on a weekly basis has to take a huge toll on the body, thats why dont mind cena and his five moves of doom. Dude has been working a ridiculous schedule for ages.
Oh, absolutely get that, don't blame him at all. More just pointing out that I don't think that there are any proper technicians left when Bryan isn't at it.
I find it funny though, that Cena was raked over the coals for it, where as the Rock wasn't, HHH wasn't, Stone Cold wasn't despite having 3 moves including kicking and stomping, and Bryan wasn't/won't be.
In fact, in Stone Colds case, his popularity ironically sky rocketed once he(sadly) couldn't wrestle properly any more. I wasn't really watching before he mangled his neck, which is a shame, as I've read that back in the day he was an excellent technical grappler.
Yeah austin was a great technical wrestler, they gave him a lame gimmick when he started out with WWE, The Ringmaster! His character was that he was a ring technician!!
Some of his stuff from WCW was great, with the Hollywood Blondes (Him and Pillman)... if you google / youtube it you'll find some stuff I'm sure!
Some of his stuff from WCW was great, with the Hollywood Blondes (Him and Pillman)... if you google / youtube it you'll find some stuff I'm sure!
Everyone has a 5 moves of a doom these days, a signature finishing pattern.
We're all so used to Cena's though, so that's why he gets stuck with it.
We're all so used to Cena's though, so that's why he gets stuck with it.
Tis the WWE way alright, even going back to the days of Hogan... body slam, Big boot and leg drop! Warrior, shoulder tackle, shoulder tackle, gorilla press slam and body splash!
Austin had the worst move set ever but it suited his gimmick. All he did was stomp an opponent in the corner or jump on top of an opponent and punch him in the centre of the ring then a boot to the gut followed by a stunner. No wrestler would get away with that shit today. But it worked for Austin because his gimmick was beating the crap out of his enemies.
Yeah. Everyone has their standard move-set in WWE. It would be interesting if they were allowed to cut loose a little bit. Bryan would be able to really entertain in the ring. I think this in-ring strictness and familiarity can dull down the actual wrestling part of the show. Which has lead to the focus more being on stroytelling and entertaining.
Just reminds me of this.
About a million stunners, beats the shit out of everyone, nobody gave a crap about his actual wrestling skill.
God damned stupid invincible superman shite unrealistic gimmick with shit moveset. Bollocks. Five moves of doom arsehole.
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Talking of movesets, rumous that Daniel Bryan is gonna have to tone his right down following surgery. He´d cope easily though, I saw a video of him wrestling some old English guy called Johnny Saint after hearing Jericho talking about it with him on his podcast, and its obvious that Bryan was told to work a totally different style in the WWE
Just reading that myself from nodq...
If he has to tone down his skill set it'll suck alright, its what got him to the top and after a month there he has to completely reshape who he is...Rumor is he is penned to defend the title at MITB!!
If he has to tone down his skill set it'll suck alright, its what got him to the top and after a month there he has to completely reshape who he is...Rumor is he is penned to defend the title at MITB!!
It's likely the Diving Headbutt and Suicide Dives that will be the major moves cut from his current patterns. Tbh, I'm surprised he was allowed do either all along anyway.
Remember Punk-Cena on Raw when both used a few moves that they wouldn't normally use? The crowd went mad for it, one of the best matches I think I've ever seen on Raw. The piledriver was a particular shock, he can't have been cleared to do that surely? It's not something I expect to see again anyway.
I'd imagine they'd be in breach of contract if they weren't cleared.
IIRC, Kane is the only one left who's normally allowed do them, and even then, then ones on Bryan were the first I've seen him do in a long time.