Then you can't have seen very much at all. You're making the same assumption everyone else is. Young, creative midfielder, must be a "Number 10". You're very wrong.
Thiago Alcantara | Signed for Bayern Munich
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Then you can't have seen very much at all. You're making the same assumption everyone else is. Young, creative midfielder, must be a "Number 10". You're very wrong.
I agree but that is not the case with Thiago. He never looked tired in Barca's team and they run like lunatics.
He's always been a CM. He played bit far up for the U-21s, but that's about it.
Fine, I'll bite... you've can't have ever actually seen him. Every game except the final in the U21 Euros, for example, he was firmly in CM, playing very deep.
Other people seem to have worries about him being too risk-taking, but these stem from rumours that he is seen that way by some within the Barca set-up. What that essentially means is that compared to Xavi, he loses the ball too much. Compared to pretty much anyone in our entire team except Carrick, he'll be extremely reliable in possession. And unlike Barca, our defence can actually cope if our midfielders try things and lose the ball. Let's face it, if they couldn't we'd have done a hell of a lot worse in recent seasons.
How far off are we now from the Sneijder thread in terms of views and replies? Should be close now surely
I get the people being negative because they don't think he'll leave Barca, but you must be the first who don't understand why we're after him.
Nothing bizarre about it, in fact it's one of the most obvious and perfect solutions.
A player than in his best season has scored 5 goals ideally plays in the hole?
He never played for Barca in the hole cause Barca doesn't play like that. How did you get that idea is interesting, but likely cause you haven't seen him playing that much.Or cause he's a WUM?
My only concern would be that u21 vs the PL. Totally different kettle's of fish. Of course if United want him they want him. But to me this doesn't look like a 'united' type signing.. imo.
I wasn't aware that he was an out and out ball winning one on one defensive midfielder. Carry on then.
He has mostly played for Barca in the 'Xavi' role. Why getting a player that has been labelled as the next Xavi is a bizarre signing?
Pretty boring WUM.
I wasn't aware that that is the best player for us. Carrick and a defensive midfielder, are we really trying to become Everton or what?
That's an interesting description for a midfielder. Can you name some who fit that description perfectly, preferably the best or most desirable for us to purchase?
That should be the plan, yes. However, my problem with that plan would be that it does not solve one of the biggest problems with the current United squad: the dependency on Carrick.
Thiago+Carrick would be in my eyes the only working combination, because Carrick is the only current CM, who is defensively strong enough to truly watch Thiago´s back.
From what I´ve seen from Thiago, he is an AM/CM hybrid with a clear orientation to be offensive. He does leave some quite big holes behind him. The best possible partner for Thiago in the CM would be a classic destroyer like for example Sven Bender or Luiz Gustavo. No one in the current United squad qualifies for such a role, though.
On the other hand, Thiago is still bloody young and under a good coach he could develop enough defensive attributes to become a wellrounded CM.
He is one.
I get the people being negative because they don't think he'll leave Barca, but you must be the first who don't understand why we're after him.
Nothing bizarre about it, in fact it's one of the most obvious and perfect solutions.
It's amazing. If this isn't a perfect signing, then there's no such thing as a perfect signing. We have a clear vacancy, and Thiago is absolutely suited to playing in that position.
'If he plays where Kagawa plays, why are we getting him when we already have Rooney and Kagawa?' Put two and two together, ffs. He doesn't play where Kagawa plays, hence why we're after him. He plays where Cleverley or Anderson plays. Makes more sense now?
Who is he?
Yeah we could still do with some cover for Carrick, which is probably why we were looking at Strootman as well.
Your statement is bizarre. Anderson and Cleverley aren't near the class required to play second striker for United. It's a key position in the way we play.
Unless I'm completely missing something, he is a central midfielder. He will not be played off the striker in most games. His strengths are his ability to maintain possession with clever short passes/ pieces of skill/ dribbling, his ability to switch play with long cross field passes and his defensive energy/ intelligence in winning the ball back with interceptions. He will be very good at supporting attacks in the way Cleverley does, by playing layoffs and throughballs down the channels to players who have pulled out wide/ dropped off the centrebacks.
He can finish as well but he currently doesn't have the consistency of creativity or the natural movement to be most effective as a second striker, in my opinion.
He retired
I know you weren't speaking solely of me but I'd appreciate it if you avoid explaining where my opinions stem from. It has nothing to do with rumours, it's something he shows in practically every single game. Even for the u21s there's plenty of examples of sloppy passing. It won't be a problem for us because that's what we're used to but it was clearly one of the main flaws he needed to iron out of his game if he was to become a mainstay of the Barca midfield. He's an attacking midfielder in the same way Fábregas is, and he'll undoubtedly find it similarly easy to play in centre mid in the PL.
Bizarre why we'd want a player like that.
This is certainly true. However, I think big holes in the first XI always have to take priority over lack of back-up. At the moment, we obviously lack a top quality player to partner Carrick (with all due respect to the very competent and promising Cleverley). When that issue is solved, our next biggest priority (for me) will be some up-and-coming talent to be back-up and perhaps an eventual replacement for Carrick. But you have to get the right players on the pitch before you start worrying about the players on the bench.
We are signing Thiago to play together with Carrick. The other combination could be Fletcher + Thiago if Carrick is injured and Fletcher is fit, but surely we are not getting Thiago as a possible cover for Carrick. With or without Thiago, if Carrick is injured we are pretty much screwed.
While it can work, Carrick + a defensive midfielder, I don't think that is the best scenario. Bayern did that fine, but I don't think that Carrick is as good as Schweini in that position. Carrick best position is playing as the least advanced midfielder for us, when he does the defensive job very good, but he can also dictate the game. Having another player similar to him would be dull IMO, personally I never liked Carrick-Fletcher combo because they were very unattractive. Though of course, in the big matches away we probably should play a more defensive player with Carrick, but in majority of them there is no need for it.
Thiago is goo defensively, 33 minutes for a tackle and 38 minutes for an interception are good numbers IMO. He is not like Anderson when he came for us, even in Barca the position he plays is similar to the position he'll play in our midfield (though there are different tactics and formations).
It's amazing how people say that he'll play in the hole, or that he's an offensive midfielder (trequartista, whatever). The last player Barca played in the hole was, well... I don't remember and surely we must go more than a decade back in time to find him.
Pretty much is, well he's young and a good dribbler, so he plays in hole.
I don't want to upset anyone, but I was listening to the Talkshite transfer tavern earlier this evening & they didn't even mention Thiago.
Mind you, given Talkshite's record, that actually may be a good thing.
Mind you, given Talkshite's record, that actually may be a good thing.
Iniesta is obviously an attacking midfielder. You don't need to see him play in that position to know that if he went to somewhere like Bayern he'd be playing in the hole. Thiago is evidently more Iniesta than Xavi so it's entirely logical. Just because he's played well in centre mid doesn't mean he's best suited to playing there.
Last couple of pages have actually been half decent, people discussing his ability and where he would fit In at united.
So FCBarca, do you think he'd do we'll in a midfield 2 or is he better in a midfield 3?
So FCBarca, do you think he'd do we'll in a midfield 2 or is he better in a midfield 3?
I have seen Iniesta being called attacking midfielder, but my opinion is that he's not. He never plays for Barca as a classic attacking midfielder, and he's more important to keeping the ball and dictating the game than for his productivity. He's best season in terms of producing goals was 9 (7 in the leagues) and while he has scored some screamers and some important goals, he doesn't have that instinct of scoring goals which would have make him perfect on the hole. I think that the closest we had a player playing in Iniesta position last season was Anderson when he played in midfield three (Carrick/Fletcher, Cleverley and Ando) though on the other side of the pitch. While clearly more advanced than the other two midfielder, hardly an attacking midfielder, at-least not a classic one like Sneijder or Lampard.
Barca don't play with a designated attacking midfielder, you're right. That's not really the point though is it? It's about where he would play in a system that is nothing like Barca's. Spain's use of him clearly shows that he's an attacking midfielder if you need to have that "proof". Thiago's more like Deco than Iniesta but even Deco played as a centre mid for Barca but an attacking midfielder at Chelsea and Porto. I'm pretty sure Deco played a bit in centre mid for Chelsea too and he definitely played there for Portugal but he was clearly best suited to playing ahead of the midfield. Thiago's much the same. I just don't think we'll use him that way.
I thought it was already established Thiago is a bit of a hybrid midfielder. His qualities indicate he can handle both roles well. If we use more as a CM, over time, he will learn to iron out his sloppy passing and use his experience to determine the right time to make a risky pass.
What do you know? Another versatile player on our books. If he comes here, assuming Moyes continues with 4-2-3-1 then he will start mostly in CM but slightly ahead of Carrick where he is given more license to attack. He thinks and passes like an AM but also has great composure in tight spaces which we will find useful if he plays deeper.
At the end of the day, you want these options as it adds more dynamism into the attack. Kagawa was a very interesting signing for the team of our makeup and I believe United fans have seen enough of him to know how good he can be once he fully settles. I can see both him and Thiago offering a different type of incisiveness we haven't really seen before. If anyone remembers our third goal against Villa where Kagawa released Giggs, it's those type of passes which I am referring to. For a while, I have thought we don't anticipate Chicharito's runs quick enough. Additionally, he doesn't receive many through balls on the ground. I think the presence of both Thiago and Kagawa can change that. Both quite adept in spotting those type of runs quickly.
What do you know? Another versatile player on our books. If he comes here, assuming Moyes continues with 4-2-3-1 then he will start mostly in CM but slightly ahead of Carrick where he is given more license to attack. He thinks and passes like an AM but also has great composure in tight spaces which we will find useful if he plays deeper.
At the end of the day, you want these options as it adds more dynamism into the attack. Kagawa was a very interesting signing for the team of our makeup and I believe United fans have seen enough of him to know how good he can be once he fully settles. I can see both him and Thiago offering a different type of incisiveness we haven't really seen before. If anyone remembers our third goal against Villa where Kagawa released Giggs, it's those type of passes which I am referring to. For a while, I have thought we don't anticipate Chicharito's runs quick enough. Additionally, he doesn't receive many through balls on the ground. I think the presence of both Thiago and Kagawa can change that. Both quite adept in spotting those type of runs quickly.
I don't think that Iniesta would have ever been as near as successful/good playing as No. 10 as he is not. He isn't that good when it comes to scoring goals. As you say, Iniesta plays in 'Deco' position and Deco didn't played that much advanced in his best years. Thiago anyway is a hybrid of Xavi and Iniesta so he usually isn't even as advanced as Iniesta.
Brwned, what about something like this:
Note: I am excluding the back 5 for now as I am going to deem it irrelevant for this part of the discussion.
------------Carrick------------
--------Cleverley---Thiago-----
Valencia---------------Kagawa
---------van Persie/Roo-------
With Thiago slightly ahead of Cleverley or how about this:
---------Carrick----Thiago-----
Valencia----Kagawa/Roo----Zaha/Nani(if he stays)
------------van Persie---------
Yeesh! I need to calm down. Haven't talked about proper footie in some time. ThiagON!
You seem to be ignoring the point that Barcelona play a relatively unique system in which they can play attacking midfielders (Iniesta and Deco) in their midfield trio. Deco was named Uefa Footballer of the Year and came 2nd in the Ballon d'Or largely off the back of his performances ahead of the midfield for Porto.
Platato - yeah, like I said, I think he'd find it perfectly comfortable in a midfield two with Carrick but he'd ideally be playing in a midfield three. He's not the kind of player we'd play in behind the striker.
Platato - yeah, like I said, I think he'd find it perfectly comfortable in a midfield two with Carrick but he'd ideally be playing in a midfield three. He's not the kind of player we'd play in behind the striker.
It isn't a question directed to me, but I am taking the freedom to answer
I think that in most of our games we will play with the second formation (especially games in the league). In games when we need to be more defensive (see Real at Bernabeu last season) I expect us to go with the first option, though in place of Cleverley preferably having a new defensive minded midfielder signing. I think that regardless of Thiago, we will sign another midfielder (Strootman or that Sevilla fella, or in worse case Phil Jones) because it will be foolish risking our entire season if Carrick's get a big injury (unless we are really sure that Fletcher is finally back. I expect Cleverley to be a cover and possible competitor for Thiago but I don't expect that they will play many games together.
I'm not comfortable with him alongside Carrick in a 2.
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