I don't think we do... we'd have three in Young, Valencia and Zaha, plus Welbeck, Giggs, Kagawa as first team players that could play there. Then you have youngsters in Januzaj and Lingard who are also ready for some minutes. By my count thats 8 players. Got to be enough.
Thiago Alcantara | Signed for Bayern Munich
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We have three flat out wingers (if Nani goes), Young is meh, Zaha is unproven, Valencia is still potentially excellent but after the shitness of this season you never know. Giggs won't play that much, Welbeck is wasted there, Kagawa is much better in the middle.
Do we just want to settle for quantity there or do we actually want some quality in the position we've relied on more than any other for creating chances in the last two decades?
Do we just want to settle for quantity there or do we actually want some quality in the position we've relied on more than any other for creating chances in the last two decades?
Agreed.
I think it would be fair to expect at least one of Valencia and Nani to recover some form. Agree that Welbeck, Kagawa and Giggs shouldn't come into it - they're not wingers, and a top team shouldn't need to 'make do', especially, as you say, in what has traditionally been its strongest position.
That said, I think we should be giving youth a chance. Zaha has shown more than enough at Palace to be given a real go. Januzaj is a talent who needs more than just League Cup run-outs in mismatch teams - he is ready for Premier League games now. Lingard is also at the point where we need to be thinking about either playing him a bit or moving him on.
If we sell Nani, we need a top-class replacement. But if we don't, I'd be happy for us to stick with current options there. Ideally, I'd like us to keep Nani, get rid of Young, and buy someone better in. But I realise there have been no signs whatsoever of that happening.
And who's to say we're going to play full on wingers now? Sure, we've done that for the last 20 years or so, but Moyes hasn't been playing orthodox wingers in his Everton side but rather midfielders that can play wide. We may see Kagawa, Giggs, or Januzaj out wide even they are more midfielders than wingers. I don't see our need for a winger as great as others do it seems.
Anyway, topic for another thread. Have we signed Thiago yet?
Anyway, topic for another thread. Have we signed Thiago yet?
I think that this is basically what I said.
I know, I wasn't arguing just offering my two cents.
You're not allowed offer two cents, don't even quote me, or add to my posts, cause they're completely perfect, bitch.
Not a bad shout, also Alexis Sanchez, perhaps Robben if Pep decides to get rid. Am sure there's more that we can't think of yet.
Fabregas is quality, but I think Thiago is capable of going on to achieve anything he can do but in addition to that possesses truly exceptional dribbling ability, arguably even more imagination in his passing and the ability to score rockets off either foot. In addition to what I said, he can also be utilised in wider positions if we need him to fill in.
You just need to see the myriad of skills Thiago brings to the table to see that if everything clicks, this kid could be a world-beater. Fabregas is the more stable purchase, you know what you're going to get... Thiago could be a mindblowing purchase, but it could also go wrong.
Welbeck and Kagawa are decent in wide positions but we need a left footer with pace in my opinion to add some variety to our squad down the flanks. From what i've seen of Janzuaj, he seems abit leggy and devoid of pace (he glides past opponents).. more of an Ozil type player who needs to be deployed in central areas or perhaps on the right cutting in to get the best of him, physically I don't think he's got the pace at the moment to make an impact on the first team in wide positions.
I do agree that centre-mid is the priority.
I don't think one exceptional midfielder is enough, look at the likes of Bayern... quality midfielders galore, they won a CL with Toni Kroos missing and Luis Gustavo on the bench, and they're signing another attacking midfielder in Gotze. So we can't afford to be left threadbare in the midfield stakes, not if we want to be able to impose our football on opponents - for too long we've been a reactive side, rather than proactive - one of the reasons why we haven't been able to rack up European Cups or produce a dominant display against a top opponent in good form regularly.
Let Valencia go.
Keep Nani, Young and Zaha.
Sign Bale.
Sign Fabregas.
Carrick - Fabregas
Nani - Kagawa - Bale
van Persie
Nani - Kagawa - Bale
van Persie
Subs: Cleverley, Zaha, Welbeck, Hernandez, amongst others.
If Rooney is sold, we could strengthen midfield further with a young understudy for Carrick to eventually take over the mantle and another young winger/attacking midfielder to add depth to the squad.
That front six would walk the league for the next three years before Carrick and van Persie would have to be replaced. I'd even fancy us against anyone in Europe, too.
In other news, pigs fly.
As much as Janusaj can play out wide, isn't he essentially a number 10?
Let a man (wet) dream, Cina, will you?!
No idea at the moment. He's been played all over the place in the ressies to round his skills. He's not a 9, and I don't think he's a centre mid. So if, as with many teams, we end up with a 4-2-3-1 formation he could play anyone of the 3 in my opinion as long as the wider two aren't truly hugging the touchline.
Not the thread for it, but this season he's been good in both positions. Unlike a lot of 'cut inside' wide men, he also has a good cross on him, so he's got enough variety to be effective from a wide position. Occasionally he's been noticeably better for the U18s and U21s at #10, but only because as the best player on the pitch, the more involved he could be the better.
EDIT: As backofthenet says, this is if we're talking about the 3 of a 4231. He wouldn't work as a traditional 442 winger. But then we haven't actually played that formation for a while now, and are even less likely to under Moyes, and with Kagawa stamping his claim.
In other news, raincoat hat gala.
Considering all the factors, on both sides, seems like there's certainly a chance - where there's smoke (And there is plenty), there's usually fire
Cesc's case is harder to read although as I've said over & over again, would love for it to be true. And, frankly, he'd be a better or more immediate fit for United than Thiago, IMHO
Thiago, something is definitely amiss. Whether that means he's gone or that United are frontrunners for his signature is impossible to tell, from my perspective.
Bottom line. There's, for me, a greater likelihood for Thiago to be sold than Cesc, at this point. Just meeting his buyout however is not a guarantee of purchase, the player will have to want to go there as well as agree to personal terms - which may or may not be going on atm or in the coming weeks. The Euros will be a great showcase to see what sort of player Thiago is as he's healthy, surrounded by great talent and has a chip on his shoulder to prove he's worthy of greater importance to Barcelona. He's usually phenomenal for La Roja and paired with Isco, think people will see why I still rate him higher than Isco...and why Thiago probably realizes his window is shrinking to assert himself more for the NT if Isco is already ahead of him in the pecking order for the senior NT. Although, not sure why the player truly believes he has a shot at the WC any longer, that window was blown when Tito used him less this past season. I said similar regarding De Gea, Del Bosque won't be bringing debutantes into the squad unless there's an injury or a goalscorer emerges
This won't happen. It'll be one, the other or neither. I think part of the problem is that they are competing for minutes, for both club & La Roja.
It's a question of fit and Cesc doesn't fit any longer. Moreover, the ceiling is indeed higher on Thiago and that will become clear soon enough
This is a better vid to show his range from the past season
He must be a truly sensational player if his potential is much higher than Fabregas. Fabregas is a fecking brilliant footballer when used correctly.
But if the Thiago purchase could also go wrong, doesn't it suggest that he possibly doesn't have something that Fabregas does? Because I can't see Fabregas failing here, he's simply too good at what he does. Honestly the way you put it, he sounds as good as Iniesta or akin to even a Ronaldhinio. And I find it hard to beleive that Barca would let go that sort of talent.
I've seen Thiago live and if I'm right, he did score a sumptuous goal against us. He's certainly a flair player with good vision, dribbling and has a good shot on goal from distance.
But can he play in a midfield 2? Or can he play on a wet night at Brittania with Mark Hughes as manager? Don't know.
But can he play in a midfield 2? Or can he play on a wet night at Brittania with Mark Hughes as manager? Don't know.
More accurate would be to say he's a slightly different sort of player than Fabregas, but has a ceiling as high as Fabregas'. Let's not forget that Cesc was the best midfielder in the league for a few years at Arsenal.
However good Fabregas is capable of being, Thiago is also capable of being that good. Which is more than enough praise for any player.
However good Fabregas is capable of being, Thiago is also capable of being that good. Which is more than enough praise for any player.
Have a lot of people in here still not seen Thiago? If you've seen him play then you'd realise how good he is and how he is potentially so much better than Fabregas. We're talking a potential heir to Ronaldinho at times, he's just got that much more in his locker than Cesc.
For me, if I had the choice between the two, it would be easy. We know what we'd probably get with Cesc in a steady but good midfielder. Thiago is still a work in progress but, unlike FCBarca, I think he's got so much quality that there isn't much chance of him failing here. Given game time he'd become one of the best players in the world and would be a fan favourite. He'd really rejuvenate our play and bring some entertainment back to Old Trafford.
For me, if I had the choice between the two, it would be easy. We know what we'd probably get with Cesc in a steady but good midfielder. Thiago is still a work in progress but, unlike FCBarca, I think he's got so much quality that there isn't much chance of him failing here. Given game time he'd become one of the best players in the world and would be a fan favourite. He'd really rejuvenate our play and bring some entertainment back to Old Trafford.
You have forgotten the quality of Fabregas, a bit there. Used to hate that twat so much.
Seriously, it's not that others on here haven't watched Thiago enough. It's that you've forgotten Arsenal's Fabregas. He was absurdly good. We're not talking about a Silva or Mata here, we're talking about one of the best midfielders ever to play in the Premier League.
What do you mean by "at times"? Anderson was the potential hier to Ronaldhinio too, but sadly it was only at times. If Thiago really is as freakishly talented as you guys make him sound then he's not going anywhere. Bayern and Guardiola just signed Gotze despite having such a brilliant squad, and you lot seem to make Thiago sound even better. Not sure why Barca would let such a talent go to keep Fabregas if you're right about that.
Seen him countless times and would be over the moon if we get him (especially for the quoted price, what a bargain!), but much higher potential than Fabregas is overstating it. Fabregas is a proven world class player, was the best midfielder in the league a couple of years back and would give us the edge (in midfield) against most opponents immediately.
Fabregas would suit us better than Thiago would. I'd be thrilled with either, but some serious underrating of Fabregas (and overratig of Thiago) in this thread.
He really hasn't got more in his locker than Fabregas. Really under rating him. The guy is class, Wilshere doesn't come close to a young Cesc.
And now you're underrating Wilshere. Seriously, the response to one underrating doesn't always have to be another!
Fabregas, before Barca started misusing him, was one of the best midfielders in the world. He's one of the best ever to play in the Premier League. Wilshere is a very different sort of player, Thiago a somewhat different sort of player. They both have the potential to be as good as Fabregas was, which is a massive, massive complement, enough to get them into any team in the world.
Savvy?
I think he's got a lot more in his locker than Fabregas, I really do. He is the better dribbler, more outrageously creative and could potentially be a big goal threat. This is why I think he could quite easily be better than Fabregas. Perhaps I understated how good Fabregas is by labelling him 'steady but good', but I just think Thiago could be even better. It's not that I don't rate Cesc, just that I really rate Thiago. Going head to head against teams like Bayern, Fabregas would give them a good game. If Thiago reaches his potential, on the other hand, a lot of midfielders wouldn't get near him.
And I don't think it's as cut and dry as people make out when saying that Fabregas would suit us more. Thiago is very tenacious and puts in a shift off the ball, as all Barca players do. I could see him playing in midfield alongside Carrick.
feck, I've been trying to keep myself from getting over-excited with this one, but I don't think I can contain myself
This would make up for a lot of let-down's and missed opportunities that we've had in the recent past.
And I don't think it's as cut and dry as people make out when saying that Fabregas would suit us more. Thiago is very tenacious and puts in a shift off the ball, as all Barca players do. I could see him playing in midfield alongside Carrick.
feck, I've been trying to keep myself from getting over-excited with this one, but I don't think I can contain myself
This would make up for a lot of let-down's and missed opportunities that we've had in the recent past.I wouldnt mind either because they are both brilliant talents but Thiago will be the cheaper of the two and he is younger as well.
Fabregas was clearly better than Wilshere at the same age.
Even the resident Barca fan is more worried about losing Thiago than Cesc. He said it himself, the ceiling is higher with Thiago and he'll probably soon make that potential a reality.
Different players.
Plus Wilshere's injuries have pegged him back a bit, I think.
Injuries have prevented Wilshere from getting the plaudits that his talent deserves. Head to head, he'd have given Cesc a good game at the same age.
Thiago is also more likely to want to return to Barcelona at some stage of his career again, though. If Fabregas leaves them this summer, that's his Catalan dream over for good, which means we'd be likely to have him until he retired, if we wished to.
People have short memories. So Wilshere was used to help out those who can only remember 2months worth of football. But no I'm not doing Wilshere any disjustice..
While I respect FCBarca's opinion, he's been watching Cesc at Barca. Where he's been played predominantly out of position, hasn't really fitted in, and hasn't been anywhere near his best.
Different players but I don't think Wilshere's performances are of the same level. He has similar quality in different facets of the game but Fabregas was just a brilliant performer week in week out. Everything was so effortless with him. He was more like Rooney and Ronaldo when he was 18-20 whereas I'd say Wilshere is a notch below. That's not to say he can't reach the their levels (barring Ronaldo) eventually. But comparing him to Fabregas, the latter definitely had the more polished and compelete game as well higher level of performances at the same age.
It's surely just a means to an end, though? Xavi won't go on forever and Fabregas could easily play that role, I'd have thought. Playing him in the false 9 position probably happened because Cesc has had a few good goalscoring spells at Barca and needed the game time. I don't think that's where they see him permanently.
Wouldn't take that very seriously. He was against the Fabregas signing from the beginning and the player hasn't suited their system very well, so it makes sense for him to prefer Thiago. Fabregas would definitely suit English sides.
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