Thiago Alcantara | Signed for Bayern Munich

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Brightonian said:
Well, position... role - what you've said is much the same as what I meant. He doesn't suit what Barca have tried to get him to do.
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It's an important distinction. Your implication was that he has been played out of position when in fact he's been played in multiple positions - none of which has worked with any sort of consistency

My point isn't that the player is rubbish but that he no longer works in the tiki taka style. He's currently the least technical midfielder in the squad (Save Song) and has been since his arrival
 
FCBarca said:
It's an important distinction. Your implication was that he has been played out of position when in fact he's been played in multiple positions - none of which has worked with any sort of consistency

My point isn't that the player is rubbish but that he no longer works in the tiki taka style. He's currently the least technical midfielder in the squad (Save Song) and has been since his arrival
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No he's not. He's just an English midfielder (funny as it sounds) not use to this less direct style.
 
We can all speculate as to why Fabregas has not been a success at Barcelona.

But I reckon it's down to the fact he's been played out of position at times and that he only has Xavi and Iniesta ahead of him in the pecking order.

So for him being the least technical player in their midfield, I'd probably agree. Mainly due to how highly technical the other midfielders are. Fabregas, for me, has more of a physicality to him though, he's deceptively big, and would be better suited to the Premier League.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Again, very simplistic. FCBarca can probably expand on what I've said regarding the "English" bit of his play. It's very much true. If you think all it takes for Barca's system to succeed is repeatedly playing 5 yard passes and pressing then you don't have much of a clue as to the reason for their recent successes.
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I was trying to make it easier for you. You're the one that is stating clichés as reasons why he has failed, such as him being too 'English'. And then you have the audacity to say I'm being too simplistic. I think it's you that doesn't really understand why he has failed as you can't give a real footballing reason.
 
Kid Cunto said:
We can all speculate as to why Fabregas has not been a success at Barcelona.

But I reckon it's down to the fact he's been played out of position at times and that he has fecking Xavi and Iniesta ahead of him in the pecking order.

So for him being the least technical player in their midfield, I'd probably agree. Mainly due to how highly technical the other midfielders are. Fabregas, for me, has more of a physicality to him though, he's deceptively big, and would be better suited to the Premier League.
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But Barca knew all of the before they signed him, so why are we acting as it's come as a surprise to them that he's not something else? And let's be honest, if they get rid of Cesc then who is more suited that they can bring in? I don't think they're selling him unless he's just been a bit crap.
 
pocco said:
But Barca knew all of the before they signed him, so why are we acting as it's come as a surprise to them that he's not something else? And let's be honest, if they get rid of Cesc then who is more suited that they can bring in? I don't think they're selling him unless he's just been a bit crap.
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We don't know if Barcelona are selling him. In fact, I highly doubt they will. Especially with it currently looking likely that Thiago will leave.
 
pocco said:
But Barca knew all of the before they signed him, so why are we acting as it's come as a surprise to them that he's not something else? And let's be honest, if they get rid of Cesc then who is more suited that they can bring in? I don't think they're selling him unless he's just been a bit crap.
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Ask Barca. They also brought him kneeing they would play him as a false number 9. My Gran could have told them that wouldn't work for long.
 
FCBarca said:
It's an important distinction. Your implication was that he has been played out of position when in fact he's been played in multiple positions - none of which has worked with any sort of consistency

My point isn't that the player is rubbish but that he no longer works in the tiki taka style. He's currently the least technical midfielder in the squad (Save Song) and has been since his arrival
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I see your point and at Barca when you can't keep up with the others you tend to stand out for all the wrong reasons. In all honesty when I see it we have Messi, Xavi and Iniesta all on the same wavelength in the final third and the others around just trying to fit in. Pedro does it best because he understands what he needs to do tactically but he has dropped a level the last couple of years but other players seem uncomfortable. When watching Fabregas you get that feeling also.
 
Thiago, woahhhh
Thiago, woahhhh
He comes from España
He'll feckin' murder ya
 
FCBarca said:
Considering all the factors, on both sides, seems like there's certainly a chance - where there's smoke (And there is plenty), there's usually fire

Cesc's case is harder to read although as I've said over & over again, would love for it to be true. And, frankly, he'd be a better or more immediate fit for United than Thiago, IMHO

Thiago, something is definitely amiss. Whether that means he's gone or that United are frontrunners for his signature is impossible to tell, from my perspective.

Bottom line. There's, for me, a greater likelihood for Thiago to be sold than Cesc, at this point. Just meeting his buyout however is not a guarantee of purchase, the player will have to want to go there as well as agree to personal terms - which may or may not be going on atm or in the coming weeks. The Euros will be a great showcase to see what sort of player Thiago is as he's healthy, surrounded by great talent and has a chip on his shoulder to prove he's worthy of greater importance to Barcelona. He's usually phenomenal for La Roja and paired with Isco, think people will see why I still rate him higher than Isco...and why Thiago probably realizes his window is shrinking to assert himself more for the NT if Isco is already ahead of him in the pecking order for the senior NT. Although, not sure why the player truly believes he has a shot at the WC any longer, that window was blown when Tito used him less this past season. I said similar regarding De Gea, Del Bosque won't be bringing debutantes into the squad unless there's an injury or a goalscorer emerges




This won't happen. It'll be one, the other or neither. I think part of the problem is that they are competing for minutes, for both club & La Roja.





It's a question of fit and Cesc doesn't fit any longer. Moreover, the ceiling is indeed higher on Thiago and that will become clear soon enough





This is a better vid to show his range from the past season

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Thanks.
 
pocco said:
Give them some credit, they're not daft. I don't think they bought him to play the false 9 at all.
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No they actually did. Ballague said that was the plan before he signed and ha ho.. To his credit that is exactly what happened. Its more than a coincidence
 
If we sign them both Ill be thrilled. The thought of watching the likes of Ando and Jones dictating the tempo in CM for another season is too hard to bear.
 
Mainoldo said:
No they actually did. Ballague said that was the plan before he signed and ha ho.. To his credit that is exactly what happened. Its more than a coincidence
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Why would they buy to play him as a false 9 when they have Messi?
 
pocco said:
Ballague says a lot of things. Fabregas hasn't been limited to that role, which Messi basically has nailed down.
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If a credible source said we was going to buy Bale and use him as a left back. Then he came here and he played as a left back. Likely hood is the source was right... Whether they got stuff wrong in the past or not. At the end of the day he said it before he was brought and when he arrived thats what happened.
 
FCBarca said:
It's an important distinction. Your implication was that he has been played out of position when in fact he's been played in multiple positions - none of which has worked with any sort of consistency

My point isn't that the player is rubbish but that he no longer works in the tiki taka style. He's currently the least technical midfielder in the squad (Save Song) and has been since his arrival
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He's an incredibly technically gifted footballer. If he's not showing those gifts, it's because Barca are misusing him one way or another. To say that he's not technically gifted is just wrong. He and Wilshere proved more than a match for your midfield at the height of its powers in 2011.

It's understandable that you think of his performances at Barca as defining how good he is - those are the ones you will have watched most closely, and those are the most recent ones. But he was a phenomenon at Arsenal for 7 years, technically impeccable, with a range of passing to match any midfielder in the world. All the evidence suggests that he hasn't failed to fit in at Barca because of a lack of ability, but because he is not suited for the roles which he has been asked to play.
 
Brightonian said:
He's an incredibly technically gifted footballer. If he's not showing those gifts, it's because Barca are misusing him one way or another. To say that he's not technically gifted is just wrong. He and Wilshere proved more than a match for your midfield at the height of its powers in 2011.

It's understandable that you think of his performances at Barca as defining how good he is - those are the ones you will have watched most closely, and those are the most recent ones. But he was a phenomenon at Arsenal for 7 years, technically impeccable, with a range of passing to match any midfielder in the world. All the evidence suggests that he hasn't failed to fit in at Barca because of a lack of ability, but because he is not suited for the roles which he has been asked to play.
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Yep. Its not that he's an inferior footballer, just that he isnt suited to the system and it really is a unique system, so I dont really blame him either.
 
Brightonian said:
He's an incredibly technically gifted footballer. If he's not showing those gifts, it's because Barca are misusing him one way or another. To say that he's not technically gifted is just wrong. He and Wilshere proved more than a match for your midfield at the height of its powers in 2011.

It's understandable that you think of his performances at Barca as defining how good he is - those are the ones you will have watched most closely, and those are the most recent ones. But he was a phenomenon at Arsenal for 7 years, technically impeccable, with a range of passing to match any midfielder in the world. All the evidence suggests that he hasn't failed to fit in at Barca because of a lack of ability, but because he is not suited for the roles which he has been asked to play.
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:lol: I actually thought Fabregas was poor in the 2011 game. Wilshere was excellent though and took all the plaudits, but wasn't that when Fabregas did that stupid back heel to concede a goal?
 
Yeah, he probably is only more technical than Song, and Busquets as well. Don't think there can be any arguments about Xavi and Iniesta, and then Thiago also seems a more technical player (not putting down Fabregas in any way, as he has superb technique).
 
More technical than Busquets? Dont think so tbh. Busquets is fantastic.
 
Kid Cunto said:
He didn't say that, he said he's the least technical midfielder bar Song. Which is probably true, looking at Xavi and Iniesta.
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I'd put Fabregas at the height of his powers above Busquets, Thiago and Dos Santos, all 'midfielders in the squad'.

I know Busquets will get me grief, because the backlash about 'stupid English fans not understanding what Busquets does' is still healthily inflated. But I think people have forgotten how good Fabregas was at Arsenal.

pocco said:
:lol: I actually thought Fabregas was poor in the 2011 game. Wilshere was excellent though and took all the plaudits, but wasn't that when Fabregas did that stupid back heel to concede a goal?
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Nah, aside from that feck-up (which was a big one, I'll admit), he was excellent. Read a match report.* I go on a lot about Wilshere in that match but Fabregas was probably equally key to the performance.

EDIT *Here's one: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...28888/Arsenal-2-Barcelona-1-match-report.html
 
When do these fecking U21 Euros end then? Also why do we only ever try to sign players who are in competitions?
 
@ Brightonian I do get your point he was a world class midfielder for Arsenal but it was two years ago now and he has struggled to regain that form. People are hardly going to use form from 2 years ago to justify how good a player who has been playing consistently in the last two years is now. He is not the only talented player who has gone to Barca and looked out of place I may add. He is one of the most 'talented' players they have but he doesn't fit their system that is the most important thing. His Arsenal form is a memory which doesn't help him much as of now.
 
Someone PM me when this thread goes back to discussing Thiago.
 
JaffyJoe said:
@ Brightonian I do get your point he was a world class midfielder for Arsenal but it was two years ago now and he has struggled to regain that form. People are hardly going to use form from 2 years ago to justify how good a player who has been playing consistently in the last two years is now. He is not the only talented player who has gone to Barca and looked out of place I may add. He is one of the most 'talented' players they have but he doesn't fit their system that is the most important thing. His Arsenal form is a memory which doesn't help him much as of now.
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Read the whole argument, and you'll see that's what I was saying. He's been worse at Barca because he doesn't suit their system, not (as FCBarca was suggesting) because he's not a technically gifted player. He proved at Arsenal that he's a technically gifted player.

Anyway, I'm horribly derailing the thread so I'll stop now.

Alcandelabra to United. It's on.
 
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