Thiago Alcantara | Signed for Bayern Munich

[Varun]

It's surely just a means to an end, though? Xavi won't go on forever and Fabregas could easily play that role, I'd have thought. Playing him in the false 9 position probably happened because Cesc has had a few good goalscoring spells at Barca and needed the game time. I don't think that's where they see him permanently.

Totally disagree. He's a very different player in terms of style. Unless they change his game drastically, he'll never play the Xavi role as effectively imo.

 

[Mainoldo]

Thiago is also more likely to want to return to Barcelona at some stage of his career again, though. If Fabregas leaves them this summer, that's his Catalan dream over for good, which means we'd be likely to have him until he retired, if we wished to.

Except for Fabregas how many players have left Barca and looked for a return. Its a myth. Piqué we willingly sold however if we thought he would be first team he would have not left. Neither would Fabregas if Arsenal never levelled out.

 

[Varun]

Thiago is also more likely to want to return to Barcelona at some stage of his career again, though. If Fabregas leaves them this summer, that's his Catalan dream over for good, which means we'd be likely to have him until he retired, if we wished to.

Wouldnt eb so sure about it. Unlike Fabreagas, Pique etc, he isnt a Cule. He's brazilian. If he moves clubs and settles in a big club, i dont see why he'd want to go back.

 

[Buchan]

Thiago is also more likely to want to return to Barcelona at some stage of his career again, though. If Fabregas leaves them this summer, that's his Catalan dream over for good, which means we'd be likely to have him until he retired, if we wished to.

Except for Fabregas how many players have left Barca and looked for a return. Its a myth. Piqué we willingly sold however if we thought he would be first team he would have not left. Neither would Fabregas if Arsenal never levelled out.

Read what I said again.

 

[pocco]

Was Fabregas always a complete flop in his games within the midfield 3 of Barca? If so, then that is worrying.

 

[RDCR07]

Was Fabregas always a complete flop in his games within the midfield 3 of Barca? If so, then that is worrying.

And why is that?

 

[Buchan]

I don't think he's been a "flop" at all. He's a victim of circumstance if you ask me. Had he signed two or three years later when Xavi had retired, he'd slot into that position seamlessly and excel there. The problem is that he was shoe-horned into an unfamiliar position and under the circumstances, he's done okay. Playing in a false 9/striker's role was always going to be difficult for him and you won't see the best of Fabregas until he's deployed in his more familiar central midfield role.

 

[pocco]

Wouldnt eb so sure about it. Unlike Fabreagas, Pique etc, he isnt a Cule. He's brazilian. If he moves clubs and settles in a big club, i dont see why he'd want to go back.

He was born in Italy too, I think.

 

[pocco]

And why is that?

Because he's a midfielder?

 

[Mainoldo]

Read what I said again.

I don't need to you said he would want to return i said there is no evidence that he would. Unless you can give me a good reason to why he would or should want to go back to Barca, what is there to read.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Was Fabregas always a complete flop in his games within the midfield 3 of Barca? If so, then that is worrying.

It's really not. A lot of our players would flop badly at Barca. They play a different kind of football to us. And it's a system that demands a player to suit it to the tee to keep it's level up.

 

[RDCR07]

Because he's a midfielder?

He did fine with Arsenal didnt he?

 

[Varun]

I don't think he's been a "flop" at all. He's a victim of circumstance if you ask me. Had he signed two or three years later when Xavi had retired, he'd slot into that position seamlessly and excel there. The problem is that he was shoe-horned into an unfamiliar position and under the circumstances, he's done okay. Playing in a false 9/striker's role was always going to be difficult for him and you won't see the best of Fabregas until he's deployed in his more familiar central midfield role.

I'll say what I said to pocco. Unless Barca change fabregas's game quite a bit, he's never going to seamlessly fit into Xavi's shoes. His style is very different.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Because he's a midfielder?

That's a very simplistic take on things.

 

[pocco]

It's really not. A lot of our players would flop badly at Barca. They play a different kind of football to us. And it's a system that demands a player to suit it to the tee to keep it's level up.

Well maybe the question needs to be asked as to why he failed. The Cesc at Arsenal was creative and this is one of his assets that makes him so appealing to many on here. So was he not creative enough? Did he lose the ball too much? Was he lazy off the ball? These are all things that we'd want from him if he came here.

 

[Buchan]

I don't need to you said he would want to return i said there is no evidence that he would. Unless you can give me a good reason to why he would or should want to go back to Barca, what is there to read.

Christ, have I to spell it out for you? I was directly comparing Thiago's and Fabregas' situations, not necessarily saying that Thiago definitely would want to return to Barcelona later in his career. Of the two, he'd be the one most likely to want to return at some stage as Fabregas has returned once before and it hasn't went to plan for him.

 

[RDCR07]

Well maybe the question needs to be asked as to why he failed. The Cesc at Arsenal was creative and this is one of his assets that makes him so appealing to many on here. So was he not creative enough? Did he lose the ball too much? Was he lazy off the ball? These are all things that we'd want from him if he came here.

Hmmm...have you not seen him play for Barca? He is being played out of position for one and secondly they didnt need him two years ago in the first place. He is being played further up the pitch as a CAM/false 9 which is not his position in my opinion. He is much more comfortable playing a CM in a deeper position like he did when he was at Arsenal. And if we got him, then it will definitely be for a role next to Carrick with Kagawa/Rooney playing ahead of them.

 

[Buchan]

I'll say what I said to pocco. Unless Barca change fabregas's game quite a bit, he's never going to seamlessly fit into Xavi's shoes. His style is very different.

Que?

I note that they are two different players, but very different? I'm not having that. Slightly different maybe, but no reason why Fabregas couldn't be the midfield lynchpin for Barcelona that he was for Arsenal and go on to be as effective as Xavi was.

 

[pocco]

That's a very simplistic take on things.

No two players are alike. Barcelona aren't stupid and will realise this, so to be willing to let Fabregas go, dispite being one of the top midfielders around, says something. They weren't expecting Xavi mk II when they signed him, as every man and his dog could have told them he wasn't that and, frankly, they know a bit more than us about him. So why would they now be willing to let him go?

 

[pocco]

Hmmm...have you not seen him play for Barca? He is being played out of position for one and secondly they didnt need him two years ago in the first place. He is being played further up the pitch as a CAM/false 9 which is not his position in my opinion. He is much more comfortable playing a CM in a deeper position like he did when he was at Arsenal. And if we got him, then it will definitely be for a role next to Carrick with Kagawa/Rooney playing ahead of them.

I've seen him in the false 9 and a few times in their midfield, but not every game. I do remember Fabregas playing a few games further up the pitch for Arsenal and doing well. I'm just trying to gauge the bigger picture as to why he's been a failure, as I'm not buying that Barcelona didn't know exactly what they were getting when they signed him.

 

[Raees]

How can you not be excited about being linked to someone with this level of ability? if you can harness this in the right way, it would be mindblowing. He has alot of brilliant attributes, eye for a pass, finishing, ability to dictate the tempo and unreal pace.

 

[Varun]

Que?

I note that they are two different players, but very different? I'm not having that. Slightly different maybe, but no reason why Fabregas couldn't be the midfield lynchpin for Barcelona that he was for Arsenal and go on to be as effective as Xavi was.

He's just been out of their setup far too long to fit in seamlessly. Add to that the fact that he's much more comfortable in a more direct setup as his game is far more direct than what Barca/Xavi are so good at. He'd be brilliant in almost any team but to excel at Barca, you need to play a certain style. Xavi is the best in the world at it, no way can fabregas fit in seamlessly.

He could definitely play there but barca on the whole wont be as good.

 

[Massive Spanner]

No two players are alike. Barcelona aren't stupid and will realise this, so to be willing to let Fabregas go, dispite being one of the top midfielders around, says something. They weren't expecting Xavi mk II when they signed him, as every man and his dog could have told them he wasn't that and, frankly, they know a bit more than us about him. So why would they now be willing to let him go?

Sven and Lars Bender are pretty alike.

 

[RDCR07]

I've seen him in the false 9 and a few times in their midfield, but not every game. I do remember Fabregas playing a few games further up the pitch for Arsenal and doing well. I'm just trying to gauge the bigger picture as to why he's been a failure, as I'm not buying that Barcelona didn't know exactly what they were getting when they signed him.

I dont think its the fact that they did not know. I think it has more to do with the fact that playing him in a new position on a consistent basis. You're saying you've seen Cesc play as a CAM for Arsenal. I have not. Maybe you're right. He did. But again playing there once in a while doesnt mean you can play there week in week out. The same thing with Rooney and him playing CM. He has played there a few times and has been good a few times. Doesnt mean he can make the switch permanently. It wont work. Another example is Anderson. He was a CAM but we tried to play as a CM in a deeper role and how did that work out for us?

 

[pocco]

He's just been out of their setup far too long to fit in seamlessly. Add to that the fact that he's much more comfortable in a more direct setup as his game is far more direct than what Barca/Xavi are so good at. He'd be brilliant in almost any team but to excel at Barca, you need to play a certain style. Xavi is the best in the world at it, no way can fabregas fit in seamlessly.

He could definitely play there but barca on the whole wont be as good.

So what are Barca planning on doing, cloning Xavi?

I suspect the real reason Barca would potentially let him go is to convince Thiago to stay as they realise he will be the better player.

 

[Buchan]

But Barcelona have to evolve at some stage or else the Bayern Munich defeats will be occurring a lot more regularly. The style that they play with Xavi was never going to dominate forever. I'd have thought Fabregas would be integral to their evolution seeing as he is excellent on the ball and can unlock defences from deep rather than fluting with the ball around the penalty box for five minutes before attempting anything on goal, and then leaving yourself vulnerable to counter-attacks at almost every opportunity.

I know that's sensationalist, but you get my drift.

 

[RDCR07]

How can you not be excited about being linked to someone with this level of ability? if you can harness this in the right way, it would be mindblowing. He has alot of brilliant attributes, eye for a pass, finishing, ability to dictate the tempo and unreal pace.

I think some people prefer the names that have proven they can play in the EPL like Cesc or Fellaini and not someone like Thiago or Strootman.

 

[RDCR07]

So what are Barca planning on doing, cloning Xavi?

I suspect the real reason Barca would potentially let him go is to convince Thiago to stay as they realise he will be the better player.

Thats fine by me. I'd take Cesc in a heartbeat and he just turned 26 this month. So he is about to enter his peak years and he already knows this league since he played here for quite some time.

 

[Varun]

So what are Barca planning on doing, cloning Xavi?

I suspect the real reason Barca would potentially let him go is to convince Thiago to stay as they realise he will be the better player.

I have no clue as I dont really have an idea about the players coming through Cantera. FCBarca would be much better off telling you but I'd be very surprised if he believes Fabregas is going to replace Xavi. either the style changes to demand differently from the role or they get a player more suitable for it.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

No two players are alike. Barcelona aren't stupid and will realise this, so to be willing to let Fabregas go, dispite being one of the top midfielders around, says something. They weren't expecting Xavi mk II when they signed him, as every man and his dog could have told them he wasn't that and, frankly, they know a bit more than us about him. So why would they now be willing to let him go?

If this was bayern and he didnt suit them then your inference would make sense. But barca play a very specific style of football that requires specific things from the players blotted into. That's why a Pedro works and a Sanchez struggles. It's not always about the quality of the player. In barcas case its sometimes about the suitability of the player.

I'm fabregas barca knew they were getting a brilliant footballer. They were right about that. But they also thought they were a player schooled in Spain and naturally suited best to playing for them despite doing so well in England. Turns out this fabregas they bought frpm arsenal, despite being brilliant as earlier thought, has over the years playing in England become more English and less Spanish in the way he plays.

So its all about how suitable a player is to their style. And for those bemused at why he cant take over from xavi, the latter has played his whole career as part of that system. Fabregas has spent a heck of a long time mastering a whole different football culture.

 

[pocco]

But Barcelona have to evolve at some stage or else the Bayern Munich defeats will be occurring a lot more regularly. The style that they play with Xavi was never going to dominate forever. I'd have thought Fabregas would be integral to their evolution seeing as he is excellent on the ball and can unlock defences from deep rather than fluting with the ball around the penalty box for five minutes before attempting anything on goal, and then leaving yourself vulnerable to counter-attacks at almost every opportunity.

I know that's sensationalist, but you get my drift.

I agree and I'm not buying for a second that Barca thought Cesc would be/was ever identical to Xavi. I wish I'd seen him more myself to understand why they are willing to let him go already.

 

[Varun]

But Barcelona have to evolve at some stage or else the Bayern Munich defeats will be occurring a lot more regularly. The style that they play with Xavi was never going to dominate forever. I'd have thought Fabregas would be integral to their evolution seeing as he is excellent on the ball and can unlock defences from deep rather than fluting with the ball around the penalty box for five minutes before attempting anything on goal, and then leaving yourself vulnerable to counter-attacks at almost every opportunity.

I know that's sensationalist, but you get my drift.

I doubt they're thinking of changing their style because of 1 Semi Final loss. Its a system that has served them brilliantly.

also, with Neymar coming in, the change you talk of is coming in already. He'll give them something very different from the left so I highly doubt further changes are going to be made centrally as well

 

[pocco]

If this was bayern and he didnt suit them then your inference would make sense. But barca play a very specific style of football that requires specific things from the players blotted into. That's why a Pedro works and a Sanchez struggles. It's not always about the quality of the player. In barcas case its sometimes about the suitability of the player.

I'm fabregas barca knew they were getting a brilliant footballer. They were right about that. But they also thought they were a player schooled in Spain and naturally suited best to playing for them despite doing so well in England. Turns out this fabregas they bought frpm arsenal, despite being brilliant as earlier thought, has over the years playing in England become more English and less Spanish in the way he plays.

So its all about how suitable a player is to their style. And for those bemused at why he cant take over from xavi, the latter has played his whole career as part of that system. Fabregas has spent a heck of a long time mastering a whole different football culture.

What does being more 'English' in his play mean? He can't repeatedly play 5 yard passes? He can't press off the ball? I think some are just blowing smoke up our arse here. If he was linked with other teams then we'd probably hear more realistic reasons why he has failed.

 

[FCBarca]

He's just been out of their setup far too long to fit in seamlessly. Add to that the fact that he's much more comfortable in a more direct setup as his game is far more direct than what Barca/Xavi are so good at. He'd be brilliant in almost any team but to excel at Barca, you need to play a certain style. Xavi is the best in the world at it, no way can fabregas fit in seamlessly.

He could definitely play there but barca on the whole wont be as good.

In a nutshell. And as others have touched on, were Thiago to leave, I don't see a Cesc issue of eventually returning as Thiago is not Catalan

 

[Carl]

Thiago's been one of my favourite young players for a couple years now but I can't help thinking this is all spun by his dad/agent to get him a new deal.

 

[FCBarca]

While I respect FCBarca's opinion, he's been watching Cesc at Barca. Where he's been played predominantly out of position, hasn't really fitted in, and hasn't been anywhere near his best.

True on Cesc but untrue on being played out of position. He simply doesn't fit into the squad or the tactics we use any longer. If his former youth cantera coach, Tito, can't get him to fit in or Pep for that matter, than no one will..at Barcelona. I've said this repeatedly, if the 3-4-3 was going to be the future, then perhaps but not the way the team is setup now.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

What does being more 'English' in his play mean? He can't repeatedly play 5 yard passes? He can't press off the ball? I think some are just blowing smoke up our arse here. If he was linked with other teams then we'd probably hear more realistic reasons why he has failed.

Again, very simplistic. FCBarca can probably expand on what I've said regarding the "English" bit of his play. It's very much true. If you think all it takes for Barca's system to succeed is repeatedly playing 5 yard passes and pressing then you don't have much of a clue as to the reason for their recent successes.

 

[Brightonian]

Fabregas hasn't been a 'complete flop' at Barcelona. By the standards of most midfielders in Europe, he's been very good. He just hasn't been as good as expected, or as he was at Arsenal, because he hasn't adapted to the various more advanced roles as well as Barca expected him to.

 

[Brightonian]

True on Cesc but untrue on being played out of position. He simply doesn't fit into the squad or the tactics we use any longer. If his former youth cantera coach, Tito, can't get him to fit in or Pep for that matter, than no one will..at Barcelona. I've said this repeatedly, if the 3-4-3 was going to be the future, then perhaps but not the way the team is setup now.

Well, position... role - what you've said is much the same as what I meant. He doesn't suit what Barca have tried to get him to do.

 

[bosnian_red]

True on Cesc but untrue on being played out of position. He simply doesn't fit into the squad or the tactics we use any longer. If his former youth cantera coach, Tito, can't get him to fit in or Pep for that matter, than no one will..at Barcelona. I've said this repeatedly, if the 3-4-3 was going to be the future, then perhaps but not the way the team is setup now.

I just think his style is too direct, which suits the english game much more than Barcelona. He can play well in your team but he won't ever look as good as he did in the Premier league simply because he is more direct than any other of the Barcelona midfielders.