Thiago Alc*ntara | Retires

Admires himself too much and really thinks he is elite the way he tries to play football.
 
zaafi said:
Calling him out for what?

For a few years, he was one of the best midfielders in the world, and in his last year he won the treble with Bayern München. Injuries have fecked him over lately.
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What does he do?! Bayern this and Bayern that. What does he do?
Doesn’t score, doesn’t assist. Doesn’t cover ground. Liverpool can’t even play through the middle with him, everything goes wide (at their peak) for the fullbacks to advance the ball.
It’s buzzwords used to defend him. He doesn’t even press the ball.
Fans say Fabinho fell away but it’s nothing like Thiago. At least Fabinho excelled at something.
 
cyberman said:
What does he do?! Bayern this and Bayern that. What does he do?
Doesn’t score, doesn’t assist. Doesn’t cover ground. Liverpool can’t even play through the middle with him, everything goes wide (at their peak) for the fullbacks to advance the ball.
It’s buzzwords used to defend him. He doesn’t even press the ball.
Fans say Fabinho fell away but it’s nothing like Thiago. At least Fabinho excelled at something.
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Thiago creates chaos in the football field, just like VDB.
 
cyberman said:
What does he do?! Bayern this and Bayern that. What does he do?
Doesn’t score, doesn’t assist. Doesn’t cover ground. Liverpool can’t even play through the middle with him, everything goes wide (at their peak) for the fullbacks to advance the ball.
It’s buzzwords used to defend him. He doesn’t even press the ball.
Fans say Fabinho fell away but it’s nothing like Thiago. At least Fabinho excelled at something.
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He is past it now, so you're asking the wrong question. If you want to know what he excelled at, it's quite simple. Resisting the press, passing (progressive passing with laser-sharp precision), and a fantastic dribbler. He controlled the tempo of the game, similarly to Verratti, who also does not score goals or assists which was one of your points. He is not the player he was, obviously, but you were saying he was the biggest fraud in football which is quite frankly an outrageous statement.
Not only did he excel at those things, he was also very versatile, and played box-to-box, CAM and defensive midfielder. Positionally fantastic as a defensive midfielder (deep-lying playmaker) and brilliant at reading the game which his defensive stats indicate. If you check fbref now, in the last year he averages 3.08 tackles per 90 (92th percentile for midfielders) which is slightly below Casemiro with 3.32 tackles per 90 (95th percentile). He also has 1.86 interceptions per 90 which is also more than both Casemiro and Fred.
As for his passing, 80.21 passes per 90, 88.9% completion and 10.07 progressive passes per 90, all of which are in the top percentiles. If I need to explain to you what he was great at, you haven't really watched him. I take it you just watch him every Liverpool game this season where he's past it and laugh to yourself "haha, I was right"

 
zaafi said:
Calling him out for what?

For a few years, he was one of the best midfielders in the world, and in his last year he won the treble with Bayern München. Injuries have fecked him over lately.
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I don't remember a single year when he was one of best midfielders in the world, let alone few.
 
I think those who say he does nothing are probably the people who only watch highlights
 
Real Name said:
I don't remember a single year when he was one of best midfielders in the world, let alone few.
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Let's just say it how it is. He plays for Liverpool, can have a nasty playstyle and an annoying face now that he's bald, and that's why he is "overrated". Yet some on here cried themselves to sleep when we missed out on him.

15/16 and 16/17 season. His last season for Bayern he won the treble playing next to Goretzka in midfield and dominating the midfield in the final against PSG.
 
He is like Rooney in his midfielder avatar. Excels at “silent domination”.
 
zaafi said:
He is past it now, so you're asking the wrong question. If you want to know what he excelled at, it's quite simple. Resisting the press, passing (progressive passing with laser-sharp precision), and a fantastic dribbler. He controlled the tempo of the game, similarly to Verratti, who also does not score goals or assists which was one of your points. He is not the player he was, obviously, but you were saying he was the biggest fraud in football which is quite frankly an outrageous statement.
Not only did he excel at those things, he was also very versatile, and played box-to-box, CAM and defensive midfielder. Positionally fantastic as a defensive midfielder (deep-lying playmaker) and brilliant at reading the game which his defensive stats indicate. If you check fbref now, in the last year he averages 3.08 tackles per 90 (92th percentile for midfielders) which is slightly below Casemiro with 3.32 tackles per 90 (95th percentile). He also has 1.86 interceptions per 90 which is also more than both Casemiro and Fred.
As for his passing, 80.21 passes per 90, 88.9% completion and 10.07 progressive passes per 90, all of which are in the top percentiles. If I need to explain to you what he was great at, you haven't really watched him. I take it you just watch him every Liverpool game this season where he's past it and laugh to yourself "haha, I was right"
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But these stats don’t mean anything. As I showed with my comparison to Fred.
Look at Casemiro. Nobody has him down as some sort of pass master yet simply playing on the half turn and having the first pass forward has been world class and made a world of difference.
I see your stats but if he were that good at getting the ball forward then why isn’t he Assisting or even more involved?
If I believed you, if he doesn’t help the attack or help defend then he must run the game right? He must dictate play.
These are stats from last season, a season they played well and nearly won it all
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_pass
There’s 5 Liverpool players in the top 20 and no Thiago. That’s 5 Liverpool players with more passes completed last season that the almighty Thiago so the play isn’t even going through him.
Ok he’s a midfielder. You may think passing it out from the back buffs stats. Compare him to other midfielders for a better picture.
it gets worse for him
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_pass
He isn’t even a player who takes risks hence the non existent goals and assists. Look at KDB, that’s why he’s lower. Thiago is meant to be a fecking safe player and he’s on the outside looking in.
Fraud of a player

edit I don’t know why links reverts back to this season when posted but apply filters to last season to see my point

Double edit he wasn’t even top 20 in midfield touches last season!
 
Zehner said:
Those people aren't saying this about this season only. Clueless.
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2 seasons ago he joined a Liverpool team that hadn't lost at Anfield in years. They then lost 6 home games in a row with him at the heart of their midfield.

I remember people doing mental gymnastics to defend him back then in the same way they're doing now.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
2 seasons ago he joined a Liverpool team that hadn't lost at Anfield in years. They then lost 6 home games in a row with him at the heart of their midfield.

I remember people doing mental gymnastics to defend him back then in the same way they're doing now.
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Flawless argumentation. City won the league fpur times in five years, then Haaland joins them and they lose it to Arsenal. Fraud.
 
cyberman said:
Since I don’t want to edit post again Thiago was 86 in the league for key passes past season .
https://www.kickest.it/en/premier-league/stats/players/key-passes

what in the absolute feck does he do on the field?
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I think it’s quite simple what Thiago does. He gets the ball and he keeps the ball. Either by circulating it about the pitch, or keeping it under pressure with his dribbling and quick feet.

He definitely has his flaws — he’s small, quite slow, and offers virtually nothing in terms of goals and assists in the final third — but his strengths are a useful asset to have in a midfield. … just not so much for this Liverpool side who have zero creativity and just as little defensive security in the team.
 
cyberman said:
But these stats don’t mean anything. As I showed with my comparison to Fred.
Look at Casemiro. Nobody has him down as some sort of pass master yet simply playing on the half turn and having the first pass forward has been world class and made a world of difference.
I see your stats but if he were that good at getting the ball forward then why isn’t he Assisting or even more involved?
If I believed you, if he doesn’t help the attack or help defend then he must run the game right? He must dictate play.
These are stats from last season, a season they played well and nearly won it all
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_pass
There’s 5 Liverpool players in the top 20 and no Thiago. That’s 5 Liverpool players with more passes completed last season that the almighty Thiago so the play isn’t even going through him.
Ok he’s a midfielder. You may think passing it out from the back buffs stats. Compare him to other midfielders for a better picture.
it gets worse for him
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_pass
He isn’t even a player who takes risks hence the non existent goals and assists. Look at KDB, that’s why he’s lower. Thiago is meant to be a fecking safe player and he’s on the outside looking in.
Fraud of a player

edit I don’t know why links reverts back to this season when posted but apply filters to last season to see my point

Double edit he wasn’t even top 20 in midfield touches last season!
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Why do you keep talking about his performances for Liverpool and linking his stats for them? He's been playing at a high level since he was 18, playing for Barcelona and Bayern München. If I were to convince someone that Cristiano Ronaldo was sensational, I wouldn't be showing them his performances in his last season for United, would I?

Watch the video in the post above. You just dislike him for whatever reason and you clearly haven't watched him before he went to Liverpool.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
2 seasons ago he joined a Liverpool team that hadn't lost at Anfield in years. They then lost 6 home games in a row with him at the heart of their midfield.

I remember people doing mental gymnastics to defend him back then in the same way they're doing now.
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One of the most pathetic posts on here I've seen in a long time. That is straight up the dumbest logic someone on the caf has used in a while.
 
zaafi said:
Why do you keep talking about his performances for Liverpool and linking his stats for them? He's been playing at a high level since he was 18, playing for Barcelona and Bayern München. If I were to convince someone that Cristiano Ronaldo was sensational, I wouldn't be showing them his performances in his last season for United, would I?

Watch the video in the post above. You just dislike him for whatever reason and you clearly haven't watched him before he went to Liverpool.
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Having to go back 3 seasons to make a point only backs up my point if you think about it
 
zaafi said:
Let's just say it how it is. He plays for Liverpool, can have a nasty playstyle and an annoying face now that he's bald, and that's why he is "overrated". Yet some on here cried themselves to sleep when we missed out on him.

15/16 and 16/17 season. His last season for Bayern he won the treble playing next to Goretzka in midfield and dominating the midfield in the final against PSG.
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Playing for Liverpool doesn't have anything with it. He's a player whose myth precedes him and he was never so good as portrayed.
 
cyberman said:
Having to go back 3 seasons to make a point only backs up my point if you think about it
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No, it really doesn't. And in his last season where they almost won the league, only one point behind City, he was really really good and had 1 goal and 4 assists, which is pretty decent for a deep lying playmaker. They also got to the final in Champions League where they lost 0-1 to Real Madrid. With Thiago in the midfield. But apparently he's always been shit.
 
DWelbz19 said:
I think it’s quite simple what Thiago does. He gets the ball and he keeps the ball. Either by circulating it about the pitch, or keeping it under pressure with his dribbling and quick feet.

He definitely has his flaws — he’s small, quite slow, and offers virtually nothing in terms of goals and assists in the final third — but his strengths are a useful asset to have in a midfield. … just not so much for this Liverpool side who have zero creativity and just as little defensive security in the team.
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I’m not linking the page again because it doesn’t seem to work but he’s 7th in passes for Liverpool last season. He’s only just ahead of Allison in 8th and has the least amount of completed passes in their midfield starting 3 last season. If anybody dictates play, keeps the ball safe and circulates the ball it was Jordan Henderson who was miles in front of him, almost 50 percent more passes than Thiago.
What do you lose if you lose Thiago? Replace him with someone who can protect the back 4 or contribute offensively? Thiago is a net loss in every regard.
It gets worse. Apply dispossessed to the filter and he gave the ball away more times than anybody behind the front 3! The front 3 who are supposed to be low in those stats because they dribble and try to score so he isn’t even safe with the ball when he has it.
So he had one of the worst pass completed stats and had a higher dispossess stat than anybody bar those three players in their starting 11. One of those was Diaz who only joined last January as well.
That’s horrendous if you think about it.
 
cyberman said:
I’m not linking the page again because it doesn’t seem to work but he’s 7th in passes for Liverpool last season. He’s only just ahead of Allison in 8th and has the least amount of completed passes in their midfield starting 3 last season. If anybody dictates play, keeps the ball safe and circulates the ball it was Jordan Henderson who was miles in front of him, almost 50 percent more passes than Thiago.
What do you lose if you lose Thiago? Replace him with someone who can protect the back 4 or contribute offensively? Thiago is a net loss in every regard.
It gets worse. Apply dispossessed to the filter and he gave the ball away more times than anybody behind the front 3! The front 3 who are supposed to be low in those stats because they dribble and try to score so he isn’t even safe with the ball when he has it.
So he had one of the worst pass completed stats and had a higher dispossess stat than anybody bar those three players in their starting 11. One of those was Diaz who only joined last January as well.
That’s horrendous if you think about it.
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That's because Thiago was used as a sub in 8 out of 25 games. Per 90 mins he is 2nd in passes made. He was always a ball magnet and even at Liverpool he is the same ball magnet.
 
roonster09 said:
That's because Thiago was used as a sub in 8 out of 25 games. Per 90 mins he is 2nd in passes made. He was always a ball magnet and even at Liverpool he is the same ball magnet.
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So he gave the ball away more than any other player bar the front three with a lot less minutes played?
 
Real Name said:
I don't remember a single year when he was one of best midfielders in the world, let alone few.
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He’s had a couple of those. Early and end of Bayern. He’s been a terrible buy for Liverpool. But Klopp is much better (maybe only) suited to harder running, direct midfielders.
 
backpass said:
I have a different opinion on him, for a very long time I always hated it when he came on for Bayern.
He was all fancy passes with low impact. His defensive work was not good enough and every single game he had at least 2-3 bloppers which were causing crazy opportunities for the opponent.

Yes he has matured and yes he is now putting in much more defensive work, however I still believe he is overrated. I think he has a problem with mentality and works only in a team with senior players making sure he knows he has to give his all in order to be featured. I think he left Bayern because theres a big chance he would be benched in the next months.

He will help Liverpool to break down easy opponenets (They dont need really help doing that), but he will suck in games where they struggle.
Everyone on redcafe will have a lot of fun when he looses the ball in crucial moments and liverpool gets punished for it.

Yes maybe hes an upgrade on someone like Keita, but thats not really a great feat isn´t it?

Probably get a lot of heat for my opinion, but I am pretty sure time will prove me right.
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Got a lot of stick for that post in 2020 when pool signed him.
 
cyberman said:
I’m not linking the page again because it doesn’t seem to work but he’s 7th in passes for Liverpool last season. He’s only just ahead of Allison in 8th and has the least amount of completed passes in their midfield starting 3 last season. If anybody dictates play, keeps the ball safe and circulates the ball it was Jordan Henderson who was miles in front of him, almost 50 percent more passes than Thiago.
What do you lose if you lose Thiago? Replace him with someone who can protect the back 4 or contribute offensively? Thiago is a net loss in every regard.
It gets worse. Apply dispossessed to the filter and he gave the ball away more times than anybody behind the front 3! The front 3 who are supposed to be low in those stats because they dribble and try to score so he isn’t even safe with the ball when he has it.
So he had one of the worst pass completed stats and had a higher dispossess stat than anybody bar those three players in their starting 11. One of those was Diaz who only joined last January as well.
That’s horrendous if you think about it.
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This, right here, shows you have an agenda with him. You don't know his abilities and you don't know how to analyse or read statistics. The notion that you suggest Henderson is the one dictating the play and circulating the ball over Thiago is laughable. Again, look at his defensive stats if you don't think he contributes defensively. He is a really good tackler and averages a higher number than Fred per 90.
 
cyberman said:
So he gave the ball away more than any other player bar the front three with a lot less minutes played?
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No, he is second only to VVD in pass competition percentage.

You can criticize Thiago for few things, passing the ball a lot or retaining it isn't one of them.
 
roonster09 said:
No, he is second only to VVD in pass competition percentage.

You can criticize Thiago for few things, passing the ball a lot or retaining it isn't one of them.
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Where are these stats? I’m open minded here but I’m not seeing what you’re seeing.
If he’s giving the ball away more than any non attacker but isn’t assisting, scoring or key passing with a lot less minutes then Im asking if he’s this safe pair of possession hands that he’s being made out to be.where is he giving the ball away if he isn’t taking risks?
 
cyberman said:
Where are these stats? I’m open minded here but I’m not seeing what you’re seeing.
If he’s giving the ball away more than any non attacker but isn’t assisting, scoring or key passing with a lot less minutes then Im asking if he’s this safe pair of possession hands that he’s being made out to be.where is he giving the ball away if he isn’t taking risks?
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Whoscored and fbref, both have him at 89% for last season
 
Let's be real, if he lost the ball thrice as much but scored an occasional long range goal people would rate him in here. EPL fans love their box to box all action midfielders. The Thiago type only gets recognized when there's no way around it.
 
cyberman said:
Where are these stats? I’m open minded here but I’m not seeing what you’re seeing.
If he’s giving the ball away more than any non attacker but isn’t assisting, scoring or key passing with a lot less minutes then Im asking if he’s this safe pair of possession hands that he’s being made out to be.where is he giving the ball away if he isn’t taking risks?
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You keep talking about him losing the ball all the time, what are you even talking about? What sites are you looking at? He has around 90% pass completion nearly every season.
 
zaafi said:
One of the most pathetic posts on here I've seen in a long time. That is straight up the dumbest logic someone on the caf has used in a while.
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Almost as dumb as saying we should sell Bruno Fernandes. Imagine calling one of our best post-Fergie signings "braindead" only a couple of months ago and then having the arrogance to call someone else's posts pathetic.
 
Zehner said:
Flawless argumentation. City won the league fpur times in five years, then Haaland joins them and they lose it to Arsenal. Fraud.
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When did I say Thiago was a fraud?

Haaland is an elite goal scorer but there's not much else to his game. So yes, I would say he's made City's team worse than when they played with a false 9. That's not necessarily Haaland's fault: he just doesn't suit Pep's style. Nor does Thiago suit the style that made Klopp's teams successful. Liverpool's midfield has gone from pressing workhorses who wouldn't let the opposition have any time on the ball to a midfield now that is sitting off and allowing Wolves to string 50 consecutive passes against them.

Liverpool's midfield issues obviously run a lot deeper than just Thiago, but if they were to replace him with someone who is more competent off-the-ball then goals like Neves' yesterday wouldn't be conceded.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
So this guy gets injured and Liverpool get better. Coincidence?
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That could have been said of any of our players. Fabinho, Gomez, TAA, VvD, Robertson, Salah. All shocking this season.

Either the mental fatigue of last season has finally worn off for everyone together, or we're finally able to start our new cycle of inhalers. Whatever it is, Thiago will look class too when he steps back into this team.
 
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