And now back to reality, please. Before it was held by Gundogan - 165 so that would be more like 150+15 but of course I know that United fans love all these myths and legends and fake quotes about Paul Scholes.
Thiago Alc*ntara | Retires
- Thread starter horsechoker
- Start date
Stop being a condescending tool.
Definitely dodged a bullet with this one. He has found his level at Liverpool...
Yeah, the whole thing is pretty silly. (The original 'record', I mean, not your obviously silly satirical take on it)
Oh how i hate David Moyes.
It's enjoyable to just watch him ping the ball around effortlessly, even in a Liverpool shirt. Half the passes yesterday were unnecessary by most measures but they keep the ball moving and never allowed Chelsea to settle. 10 men or not, he set the tempo high and kept Chelsea pinned, there are not many out there who can do that. We certainly don't have anybody and neither did Liverpool until now. I'm not sure if he was bought to be a starter but i'll be amazed if he doesn't replace one of Henderson, Keita or Winaljdum in the lineup.
It's enjoyable to just watch him ping the ball around effortlessly, even in a Liverpool shirt. Half the passes yesterday were unnecessary by most measures but they keep the ball moving and never allowed Chelsea to settle. 10 men or not, he set the tempo high and kept Chelsea pinned, there are not many out there who can do that. We certainly don't have anybody and neither did Liverpool until now. I'm not sure if he was bought to be a starter but i'll be amazed if he doesn't replace one of Henderson, Keita or Winaljdum in the lineup.
Seriously, absolute class?
Look, Thiago doesn't have to prove himself, we all know he's a quality midfielder who has just won a treble. But that half yesterday was nothing special or to be deemed "absolute class". Again, he gave away a pen.
You, United fans need to agree with each other. Either it was a dive by Werner or a penalty caused by Thiago. You can not take both sides.
I don't understand why you keep rambling on about a penalty foul - you can have a great game and give away a penalty simultaneously, it didn't even matter in the grand scheme of things. And yeah, he was class. Fine if you disagree.
It was both really. Werner is one of the best divers I've seen but Thiago should have known better.
I have a different opinion on him, for a very long time I always hated it when he came on for Bayern.
He was all fancy passes with low impact. His defensive work was not good enough and every single game he had at least 2-3 bloppers which were causing crazy opportunities for the opponent.
Yes he has matured and yes he is now putting in much more defensive work, however I still believe he is overrated. I think he has a problem with mentality and works only in a team with senior players making sure he knows he has to give his all in order to be featured. I think he left Bayern because theres a big chance he would be benched in the next months.
He will help Liverpool to break down easy opponenets (They dont need really help doing that), but he will suck in games where they struggle.
Everyone on redcafe will have a lot of fun when he looses the ball in crucial moments and liverpool gets punished for it.
Yes maybe hes an upgrade on someone like Keita, but thats not really a great feat isn´t it?
Probably get a lot of heat for my opinion, but I am pretty sure time will prove me right.
He was all fancy passes with low impact. His defensive work was not good enough and every single game he had at least 2-3 bloppers which were causing crazy opportunities for the opponent.
Yes he has matured and yes he is now putting in much more defensive work, however I still believe he is overrated. I think he has a problem with mentality and works only in a team with senior players making sure he knows he has to give his all in order to be featured. I think he left Bayern because theres a big chance he would be benched in the next months.
He will help Liverpool to break down easy opponenets (They dont need really help doing that), but he will suck in games where they struggle.
Everyone on redcafe will have a lot of fun when he looses the ball in crucial moments and liverpool gets punished for it.
Yes maybe hes an upgrade on someone like Keita, but thats not really a great feat isn´t it?
Probably get a lot of heat for my opinion, but I am pretty sure time will prove me right.
Thiago will make it more difficult to press against Liverpool - he is almost impossible to separate from the ball and will find a teammate nearly every time with a clean pass. It is the type of player that forces the opponent to run a lot more without the ball.
Some people don't seem to understand how valuable this skillset is.
Some people don't seem to understand how valuable this skillset is.
I'm sorry man but he was absolute class. His packing rate was probably insanely high. Played so many progressive passes and positioned himself very, very well.
Reading that it’s like you are mixing players up, and talking about someone else, as none of that decribes Thiago as a player.
Are you a Bayern fan?
Thiago isnt fancy at all, he controls the game and does the simply things well and is always positive.He came on and switched the play nicely but really just kept the ball with simple five yard passes.
Its strange to see the reactions on here for what was a generally quite average performance against a team who allowed Liverpool to have possession.
You then go on to compare them in your next post
He came on and switched the play nicely but really just kept the ball with simple five yard passes.
Its strange to see the reactions on here for what was a generally quite average performance against a team who allowed Liverpool to have possession.
You then go on to compare them in your next post
Maybe people define a good midfield performance different to you. If you expect a midfielder to do Hollywood passes all the time, Thiago is the wrong player for you. He's all about subtle passing, distributing the ball, creating space and setting his attackers up. He did that extremely well vs. Chelsea and for me, I take that midfielder style over more direct ones any day of the weak. However, not every fan will appreciate it - especially among EPL fans who traditionally are used to much more vertical players in the center (box to box, kick'n'rush etc.).
This is what I find funny, I mentioned all of this when discussing Thiago earlier on in this thread. I used the words 'recycling possesion', simple play and neat and tidy, all things which you have essentially mentoned there, yet I got called out for it!
I never said he was poor - merely average. I don'y think there was anything remotely exciting or special about that half of football. But as always people lap it up as a masterclass, whilst simultaneously over looking Mane who bossed the whole game and was a cut above everyone else on the pitch.
I think this is what really grinds my gears. Bayern did not miss him one bit over the weekend, and the only telling impact Thiago had on the game was giving away a penalty, yet a lot of people lap up the 75 pass narrative as a masterclass. So strange.
Henderson had a better first half than Thiago did second.
The bolded part is where I disagree. It was an almost flawless performance. IMO midfield play nowadays is doing the subtle things right 99 out of 100 times. Thiago got that right, so it was a very good performance. And honestly, he set up his team mates so often and enabled them to get into dangerous positions that I think this is worth more than one or two successful through balls in the greater scheme of things. So in a way, I'm not criticizing your observation (which seems to be on point) but your conclusion (not so much, IMO). You think he had no telling impact, I think he definitely did.
I missed the game yesterday (too busy getting my foot smashed in a game I was playing myself), but didn't he lose the ball quite a bit, concede a penalty, this against a 10 man Chelsea and being 2-0 most of the half? I mean I don't doubt he did some great stuff (I love Thiago, I think he's an incredible player and I'm gutted Liverpool have him), but some of the hyperbole written about his cameo yesterday sounds a little bit strange to me.
I'm surprised by some of these comments. It really wasn't that noteworthy.
OK, thats fair enough.
I'm a bit of a stats man as well, and the one key pass shows that he was playing it fairly safe, once again, nothing worng with that, just a safe player doesn't lend itself to a masterclass, especially when he could have put his team under pressure needlessly.
I think you hit the nail on the head earlier when you mentioned looking for different things in a midfielder.
I like to see my midfielders dictating the play with tempo, lots of movement and trying vertical passes often, one of the reasons I believe Kimmich is one of the best midfielders/utility players in the world and the reason Bayern weren't overly displeased in seeing Thiago go. I only saw simple 5 yard passes, general slow recycling of the ball and safe passes from Thiago yesterday.
He didn't really lose the ball. There were a few passes into the box which were a little bit too long but that's why I wrote "almost flawless". The penalty is a different story but I don't think you can really blame him for that. Was a bit unlucky if you ask me.
Maybe you have missed some passes? IMO he had many switches of play and great passes between the lines, creating lots of space and superiority for his team mates. I also like key pass stats but I think you have to take those with a grain of salt in this context. In the end, a key pass is just a pass that lead to a shot - so especially footballers playing a bit deeper are more likely to not have their good passes being reflected in their key pass statistics.
I really rate Kimmich, by the way, but he's not as pressing resistant as Thiago is - and while his passing is obviously great, it's not necessarily more vertical than Thiago's. There's a reason Flick played Thiago in the CL final - he's just incredibly good at absorbing pressure and was the best player on the pitch that night. Bayern will definitely miss him. His departure also went very badly with their own fans. Some even compared that to the sale of Kroos to Real Madrid.
Your post just made me watch a compilation of Thiago's touches against Chelsea by the way (see below). I think he definitely had a few very good passes:
I think a lot of Manchester United fans are off the mark in saying "you missed out" on Thiago. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from my understanding, it was always between remaining at Bayern or leaving for Liverpool for him. Bayern even had a new contract lined up for him which he was ready to sign until Klopp called him back in June.
What’s with the asterisk on the thread title?
I doubt theyd be many Bayern fans down on their luck after this weekend!! Kimmich is a different level to most midfielders right now.
I watched that video twice, on quick countup we are talking just under 20% of his passes were backwards , a higher percentage were to a player standing in space 5 yards in front of him, now I understand that you pass the ball to move the opposistion around and create space, however a lot of these passes were played with no pressure on the ball, zero pressing and plenty of time to pick better options. If you talk about context the this is important to understand.
There is a case here of overstating a distinctly normal average performance. It seems that in this instance peolpe are proclaiming this debut as a classic, when realistically it was average and very safe. Again, nothing worng with that.
Ask yourself, it that had been Kieta coming on off the bench and putting in the same performance, would it have got the plaudits by those on here or the twitter brigade?
The hyperbole for a performance against a 10-men Chelsea who are still trying to find some form.Imagine how this thread will look like once he actually plays a full game for Liverpool against 11 men!
Yes I am a Bayern fan and as stated above I am quite happy he left. For a very long time all noteworthy forward passes Thiago made, were lob passes where commentators were creaming themselves over. It never was productive.
And yes he has improved his defensive game and also his stability. But for me I was mostly angry at him in games.
Will be quite interesting to see how this discussion will evolve over the next 12 months. I think united dodged a bullet.
Imagine how this thread will look like once he actually plays a full game for Liverpool against 11 men!
Absurd isn't it. Chelsea sat in and let him have the ball and he still gave away a penalty on one of their few adventures into the Liverpool half.
Thiago Alcântara | Liverpool Star Player
Asterisk champions
He was by far our midfielder with the most possessions won over the last seasons, his defense is absolutely outstanding. He even topped a couple of defensive stats for midfielders league wide in the last couple of seasons. Saying he was "all fancy passes" and bad on defense means you either didn't watch him play or wilfully ignored everything he did on a daily basis. Shameful post.
Kimmich being the imo best midfielder in the world right now is the only reason I'm not in tears after this transfer.
I think you're mixing two different things into one in your post. Having a good game is one thing, getting praised for it is another one. No, Keita probably wouldn't have received the same praise as Thiago does, simply because it was Thiago's debut and he was in the limelight. I believe good performances by midfielders often go unnoticed because many fans only pay attention to the spectacular. A recent example was for instance Gündogan against Real Madrid back in August - he wasn't in the limelight but I thought he was brillant. So yeah, Keita there definitely would've been fewer people proclaiming it was a great game from Keita, but there'd definitely be a few and me among them
Amazing player who will guarantee a title defence for the dippers this season unfortunately. The only hope I cling to is that he will live up to his poor injury record at some point.
We should man-mark him when we play them to avoid being completely humiliated.
We should man-mark him when we play them to avoid being completely humiliated.
From what I saw during the Chelsea match, even allowing they were only playing v 10 men, he is clearly an upgrade on what they had.
He looks very comfortable on the ball, but that might change if he is up against a rough tackling side, knock him out of his comfort zone.
He looks very comfortable on the ball, but that might change if he is up against a rough tackling side, knock him out of his comfort zone.
There is nothing really special there? Looks like a decent, if run of the mill type of performance.
Really surprised by some of the plaudits he's receiving now. And it's got nothing to do with "undervaluing midfield performances".
FInally someone gets it!!
This guy is the real deal and a class above most midfielders in the world right now, including Thiago.
I’m guessing it’s partly cos people just don’t know him as a player, odd as that sounds. Being as he’s been around a while and playing every year in champions league. But a lot of the stuff here makes it sound like people are describing a different player. I guess there is an element of underrated with him though, as he isn’t a really flashy player. But he is in the mould of somone like Xabi Alonso, an elegant midfielder who can set a rhythm in a game. But reading some stuff here, it’s like people are surprised by how he plays. It is over the top for sure. No need to go overboard on it, but it’s also absolutely fine to applaud it, being as it was his first game, with no training with his new team having only signed 2 or 3 days earlier.
The real strength of him is that he’s very press resistant, so that is likely one big reason Liverpool where keen to get him. Like all teams, they can be susceptible to being pressed, so having another player like him in there is a big bonus. Keita is similar in that he is quite press resistant, so having 2 midfielders like this can only strengthen a team. .
Yeah thats a fair point about it being his debut, but as you mentioned earlier context is key.I think you're mixing two different things into one in your post. Having a good game is one thing, getting praised for it is another one. No, Keita probably wouldn't have received the same praise as Thiago does, simply because it was Thiago's debut and he was in the limelight. I believe good performances by midfielders often go unnoticed because many fans only pay attention to the spectacular. A recent example was for instance Gündogan against Real Madrid back in August - he wasn't in the limelight but I thought he was brillant. So yeah, Keita there definitely would've been fewer people proclaiming it was a great game from Keita, but there'd definitely be a few and me among them
I don't have an issue with Thiago as a player, hes a good player, nor do i think he played poorly in his first 45 mins, I definitely have an issue however with plaudits and hyperbole being levied at him due to what was an ordinary performance.